June 30, 2017 - 9:38pm
Need Help -No Noticeable Oven Spring
Hi all, I'm new to sourdough baking. I'm really looking for advice as to how to improve my crumbs & to experience a wonderful oven spring. Instead of rising, my bread spreads out in the oven. The water content is not too high at all. The dough is pretty firm & not too sticky. Is it any problem with my shaping skill? Your advice would be much appreciated. In addition, may I also have your input whether the crumb in my picture is still acceptable? I truly love the taste of the bread, it has right amount of chewiness, but sadly it came out more on the flat side.
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I'm looking at. Maybe you can tell us more about the picture and bread. What part of the loaf it is? Recipe? A crumb shot showing a complete slice of bread would be helpful and what do you desire in the crumb?
Is the fruit on the bottom of the picture an ingredient in the crumb? What is flat bread if it tastes the way you like it? Doesn't look flat from here. Also hard to tell. :) Waiting for more info ...
Hi Mini Oven, sorry for the unclear picture. My boule doesn't rise up, instead it spread/flattened to the sides. The highest point of my boule is only about 2.5 inches, whereas the diameter is about 1 feet. :D I just wonder if the crumb looks fine & I just messed up the shaping process. I wasn't really aware on how to shape a boule. I thought it's similar with shaping round bun for commercial yeast bread. I also don't have a bannetone, therefore I put it in regular bowl. After fermenting (bulk ferment) in the fridge for 8 hours, I took it out & let it come to room temp before shaping. I live in the tropics, and it is pretty humid here. By the time the dough came to room temp, it became somewhat slack & flattened a bit. Please let me know if this is a problem with shaping or overproofing problem. The recipe is 150 gr liquid starter (between 75-100%) 250 gr bread flour, 25 gr cacao powder, 35 gr sugar, 175 gr water, 4 gr salt, 75 gr semi sweet chocolate, 25 gr nuts. Autolyse 1 hour, bulk ferment 1.5 hour at room temp + 8 hours in the fridge, shape the bread after reaching room temp, proof for another hour. As an additional info, I would like to let you know that somehow I managed to improve the bread (I bake anothet bread again! :D) by using smaller bowl (to keep the boule shape) & bulk fermenting for 2 hours at room temp, shape, and then proof for 2 hours at room temp, put it in the fridge for 3 hours (because I need to go out for dinner), take it out from fridge & let it rest for about 30-45 mins before baking. It came out pretty nice. :)
I stacked the ingredients:
Autolyse 1 hour, bulk ferment 1.5 hour at room temp + 8 hours in the fridge, shape the bread after reaching room temp, proof for another hour.
No wonder they went sideways... Of course you might have shaped the cold dough while firm and then it may rise more up before it warms up too much. You can still gently fold it for height with a very short proof if it spreads again . Lots of good improvising! :)
Good idea about switching to a smaller bowl for support.
You might also try using less water. Toss an egg into the measuring cup and add water up to 150g.
Good luck with round #3.
Mini
Thank you so much for pointing out my mistakes. Now I truly understand my mistake. I shouldn't have used that many liquid starter. The recipe said 50 gr liquid starter, combined with 50 gr flour & 50 gr water, then left for 12 hours. As I'm not sure how long I should leave the levain (considering I live in the tropics) I simply use 150 gr of my unfed liquid starter. It has gone past its peak, and deflated (almost) to his original size. Would you please advise at which stage should I use my starter to mix with flour & water? Is it at peak stage? In addition, when will it be correct to mix the levain with the rest of the flour? Is it after it doubles in size. Sometimes a recipe mentions overnight, while others said 12 hours, 8 hours, 18 hours. Mine might have overproofed by then. My starter always reaches its within the first 3-4 hours. It will double or triple in size by then. Your input on this will be truly appreciated. Many thanks!
Sorry, I mean 'reach its peak within 3-4 hours
https://www.instagram.com/p/BWFbm2ilnHA/
Let me know if you have any Instagram account. :)
so I can't pull up the pics. I'm also in the tropics and I find a 100% 1,1,1 fed starter not enough food. Mine starters are also fast and not a big problem just change the ratios use only a tiny bit of starter and increase the water and flour amounts or thicken up the starter. I also keep the starter in the fridge or it would be growing faster than kudzu.
Let's take the suggestion of 50g starter thinned with 50g water and fed 50g flour. To slow it down, try 20g starter with 65g water and 65g flour for a 100% hydration starter. When it peaks or just before, put it into your recipe in the weighed amount. Many recipes will have you mix more starter than you need to make up for starter stuck on the sides of jar and spoon, evaporation, etc. If it is still too fast try mixing the starter and then after 1.5 hours, pop it into the fridge overnight. It will be steadily rising and most likely reach peak by morning. I think a starter that has peaked once and not yet a second time will still give you a bit of power in the tropics. What flour does the starter eat?
Doubling is usually the minimum a starter will rise, they often triple or go higher depending on the type of flour. That just means the flour is good at trapping gasses. A thicker starter with a lower hydration (less water than flour weight) will also tend to rise higher than a thinner starter, it can trap more gas. They will dome and rise once, flatten (starts in the middle) and then start falling as the bubbles pop and starter deflates. This compacts the gluten strands and the starter will rise again. After it falls a second time, it has pretty much used up the food in the starter and should be fed or at the very latest used in a recipe.
The recipe looks a little dry. Correction: try adding egg yolks not the whole egg and see if that improves the moisture of the bread.
And, now that you know your starter is faster, you can shorten many of the fermenting times in the recipes because your dough will be faster. The advice of watching the dough instead of the clock applies. You'll be doing a lot of guessing but I think you can handle it. You can slow the dough down using refrigerated water and using less starter and yeast in recipes. I tend to use half and then increase the flour and water in the recipe to make up for using less starter.