The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

holidays

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nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

holidays

Well another year has pased and the holiday season is here once again.
I was thinking that all the bread bakers might be thinking of going exploring into diferent sections of baking such as pastry cookies pies and others.

So I thought I would open this thread so if anyone has questions or needs a formula for some thing they want to try this year, rather than search the web for a hit and miss maybe finding the info they want they could feel free to ask me for advice or formulas that were used in shop and i know work.

the amount of information about bread here is tremendous but if any of the members needs sone bit of info about somthing elce ill be here to help if its needed.

Strega's picture
Strega

Do you happen to know how to make pastry cream using matcha green tea that would be suitable for filling between cake layers?
Thanks Very Much

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

the green tea powder is very strong so be carfull with it
i do have a pastry cream that was adjusted from a lemon cream to a green tea pastry cream. I have not used it in years and i will have to thumb through my books to find it but i will posted it latter today for you

Strega's picture
Strega

Thanks so much for helping, it's appreciated :)

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

4 eggs
6-8 oz corn starch
8 ox water
(mix and set aside


 2 pound sugar (4 cups)
1 pound 8 oz water (3 cups)
green tea powder to taste
bring to boil


temper the corn starch egg mix with a little of the boiling sugar mix abd combine
cook stiring untill thich


off heat add 2 oz of shoryening or margarine and mix till melted and smoth


cover tightly and cool well


before use in layers or pastry mix in a mixer for a minute till smoth

Judon's picture
Judon

Hi Norm,
Thanks so much for the offer - I'll take you up on it in a few weeks. Here's my baking question...

Not too many years ago I worked in a small French Restaurant in upstate NY. For 20+ years they served 2 warm breads - one an Italian loaf baked up north in a wood fired oven by Villa bakery (the ovens are in their backyard) and the other a round brown/black bread baked by Capitol Bakery in Albany, NY. I remember Capitol Bakery as a kid - we used to get their hard rolls (Kaiser rolls) as a treat once a week. I made your onion rolls http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6245/another-one-norm-onion-rolls#comment-31799 and they were even better than my memory - usually it's the other way around!

Can you give us a formula for making a brown/black bread? Do you need more of a description?

Thanks, Judy

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

the only thing i can think of is boston brown bread. It is a multi grain bread that is of the quick bread type. is is baked (well realy steamed lith a pudding) in round moulds like coffee cans giving it a round log like shape. is this what you are looking for?

Judon's picture
Judon

looks like it was...a pumpernickel.

I searched Google images and the closest I came was something called Russian Black Bread which was also called pumpernickel in other places. Searched pumpernickel on this site and came across a formula you had given and a bread baked by David. The bread David made was the same color as the one I was asking about. So I think that's it. The bread we had was black not brown and that confused me - besides the fact that they didn't call it pumpernickel!

Here's your post I came across - http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/6198/pumpernickel

I have white rye on hand - I'll order clear flour from our local supplier and grind whole rye berries - that should work for pumpernickel and once I order caramel color from Spice House I should be set to bake.

Feel free to add more guidance...Judy

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

try to remember what it tasted like some places add some brown sugar and molasses to there pumpelnickel.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/9094/russian-black-bread
Is that what you're looking for?
I'll be happy to post the recipe, if you're interested.
Betty

Judon's picture
Judon

Thanks Betty that looks very close - especially the moist, dense crumb.
Yes I'd like your formula.

Judy

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Judy..I posted this in a new thread so we don't clog up Norm's
Betty

Rosalie's picture
Rosalie

I grew up outside Albany, NY. Capitol Bakery sounds familiar. Where is/was it? Near the capitol building?

Rosalie

Judon's picture
Judon

I think it was a commercial bakery like Friehofers and they delivered to sites in the area. I never went to it and I'm not sure how the chef at the restaurant procured the dark loaf in question.


Judy

holds99's picture
holds99

Norm,

Thanks for your kind, generous offer of help. I'm committed to doing your onion and Kaiser rolls over the holidays. I've also been carefully watching your Kaiser roll video in "stop motion" to detect exactly when to release the thumb during the magic thumb "extracton" manuever :>)

Serously, I'm planning on baking both of your recipes over the holidays.

Like I said before, so glad you're back.

Howard

hullaf's picture
hullaf

Norm, thanks for offering to answer our holiday questions. And I do have one concerning adding fats, mainly butter, to rich bread doughs. When I've done this in the past it seems so difficult to incorporate the butter -- I know slowly but sometimes it's just so, slippery. Any tricks? And is it a fast and hard rule to add the butter after most of the kneading, when the gluten has been developed? Thanks, Anet

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

the problem with butter is most people take it right out of the ice box and try to add it while it is still very cold and hard. let it come to room temp and then add it.

Also in a reg dough there is nothing wrong with adding the butter to the mixer with everything elce. only very rich doughs like babka, where the butter is melted and added last or danish where the butter is rolled in does the butter need to be added last

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Norm,
I have friend who is also a relative (nice combination) who loves Bialys. I haven't actually made them but the dough is similar to Bagels without the malt I think and of course they don't get boiled.


My question is this: Is it common to ONLY put re hydrated onion/poppy in the center? I mentioned the onion to her and she thought something else. Believe it or not there are no longer any Jewish Bakeries in Milwaukee or surrounding suburbs. I want to do a good job on this project and offer her the real deal.


By the way, I made a batch of Bagels this morning with that clear you sent me. The wife and kids plus the neighbors all said they were the best ever. What was the name brand on that flour?


Eric

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

onion is the most common but garlic was also used as a special item. the dough for bialys was also used for what was called onion and garlic boards. akind of flat bread.

The clear flour i sent was named "powerfull" a con agra product.

siuflower's picture
siuflower

Hi Norm, 


Thank you for the Onion and double knot rolls recipes. I just baked them for tonight dinner party, they are wonderful. I can not wait til tonight to eat them so I ate a couple of rolls right out from the oven.


I also love the Panera Bread French baguettes with hearty whole grain. Do you have any an idea how they make it or may be a recipe like it?


Thank you for all your experience advice to us new to bread baking.


 


siuflower

RFMonaco's picture
RFMonaco

...don't know if you recall my request for the "Pasta Chotte" formula. If you don't have one I keep searching the web. Thanks.....also thanks again for the clear flour delivered safe and sound. Will be making some nice bagels soon.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

dough


sugar 9 oz
shortening 18 oz
honey 1 oz
(mix)


eggs 4 oz
water 4oz
Lemon and orange flavor or the rind from one of each
(mix)


pastry flour or a blend of 50% cake and 50% AP 3 LBS
baking powder 3/4
mix just till soft and sticky


fridg over night


put a small amount in the mixer (we call this breaking the dough) and mix for a minute till smoth before using


for pasta chotte line the small forms with this dough and fill with pastry cream 3./4 full .  cover with another piece of dough, egg wasj twice and bake at 450 (quick hot oven) till brown they will cook fast so keep an eye on this.  you want to cook them fast so the cream does not boil out.


this dough can be used for the sessme seed biscuts as well just take somm seeds and get them wet break small pieces of the broken dough (cooled and mixed for a minute) and roll them in the seeds and bake at 375 


the dough will last for about 1 month in the fridg or 6 months froaen

RFMonaco's picture
RFMonaco

Many, many thanks for this Norm. Would've answered sooner but haven't been getting email notices for threads since the new server was initiated.

siuflower's picture
siuflower

Can you explain to me what is Pasta Chotte? 


 


siuflower

RFMonaco's picture
RFMonaco

Pasta Chotte is an Italian pastry filled with orange/lemon/vanilla custard....maybe 2.5" wide by 1.5" high. Very tasty!


siuflower's picture
siuflower

They look very tasty. What kind of pan you use to bake the chotte? Is it more like making chicken pot pie instead of chicken you put custard cream inside?


 


siuflower

RFMonaco's picture
RFMonaco



These are made in small ceramic or fluted tin cups. The cups are lined with the pastry dough then filled with custard, then covered with more dough and baked.


I haven't made them yet. They are hard to find as not too many good Italian bakeries are around anymore.

siuflower's picture
siuflower

I hope you have good success baking the Pasta Chotte and please post some pictures.


 


siuflower

Eli's picture
Eli

Norm,
You may not have seen my blog with your soft rolls you posted just a week or so ago. They were great and I have been requested to make them for Thanksgiving. Thank you again for sharing your experience, wisdom and formulas.
Now on to another question. Do you have or know of a good recipe for a Date nut bread? Similar to that you used to get in the can? I have a request for that and actually I love it with a plate of fruit and sour cream poppy seed mixture.

There are a pleathera on the net but I thought I would check with you first.

Edit and add in: Norm, will shortening give me a more tender crumb with some dinner rolls or margarine? I lean towards shortening but wanted to make certain.

Thanks
Elijah

www.elisfoods.wordpress.com

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

shortening is the way to go for a tender soft crumb

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

did not know about canned date nut bread . is it a quick bread type or yeasted i have both formulas
and yes i saw your baking day blog post

Eli's picture
Eli

Norm, I think it is a yeasted bread baked in the can. As far as I can describe. One comes to mind made by Dromedary.
Thanks,
eli

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

sugar 12 oz
salt 2oz
milk powder 6oz
shortening 8oz


water 2 quarts
egg yolk 8 oz (optional)


yeast 8oz fresh   or 4 oz dry


bread flour 6 pounds 4 oz  (add 8 ox extra flour if egg yolks are used)


chopped dates 1 pound 4 oz to 2 pounds per requirments
tosted chopped nuts 1pound 8 oz or more depending on requirments

Eli's picture
Eli

This looks very good! Thank you again and I wish you you and your's a very wonderful Holiday!


Eli

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

today i mix my pie dough and make and frezz my pies for thursday.


the reason is on thur early morning i put rhe frozen pies in the oven.  while there cooking i mix my rolls and by the time the pies are don the rolls are ready to bake and then the turkey goes in.


timed just right


pie list
3 apple
3 sweet potato
2 pumpkin