The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


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breitbaker's picture

Pablo's picture

I'm taking another stab at that rye with onions.  I have the dough made and in the 'fridge.  I'm a little concerned that it is wetter than I'm used to and I'm not sure how much influence the onions and olive oil have on the hydration of the dough.  I added an extra 8% or so of flour to my normal 70% hydration formula, but I'm worried about the wetness.  I'm going to try baking one as a boule from a form.  I haven't done that in a long time.  I've been doing exclusively the baguette shaping technique for quite a while now.  It will be a challenge with dough this wet.  Plenty of flour available on the counter to combat stickiness.


I'm very intrigued with a couple of posts that I read on Dave's blog ( about using high extraction flour with rye.  I'm finding rye more attractive lately and I've used Giusto's 20% bran whole wheat flour for a long time.  I believe that that is a "high extraction" flour - all the germ and 20% of the bran.  Anyway, it's exciting.  And molasses!!  Why didn't I think of that?

When I first started making bread with this site I had a name come to mind "Three Mile Rye" because I live on Three Mile Road.  So this is like rev 1.0 of Three Mile Rye.

Formula at this point:

20g starter from fridge, 40g water, 40g flour mix (20%rye 80% white)

ferment to double, add:

200g water, 200g flour, 3 medium onions minced and slightly cooked in olive oil and cooled

ferment to double, add:

660g water, 1100g flour mix, 25g salt

stretch and fold, stretch and fold, refrigerate.

I plan to bake half in the morning with just onions and then add caraway seeds to the remaining half of the dough during shaping and bake them in the afternoon or the next day.



Futurebaker65's picture

In many recipes I am reading the amount of butter neeeded is measured in tablespoon , cup , half stick etc but unfortunately I have in the refrigerator a big chunk of butter that is not in easy stick ready to be divide , my question is how translate this measure in ounces or grams and do any difference in the recipe, are any specific conversion table for butter ?

        Thanks for the help , Marco

Moms's picture

I wish to keep the crumbs on my crumb cake or buns SOFT. (Like Entenmans does). How can I keep the crumbs from getting hard and crunchy? Thank you

ehanner's picture

A few weeks ago I saw a post with a reference to a Honey Lemon Whole Wheat loaf. As I recall a couple posters had commented that this bread was high on the best breads list for them. A fellow I have high regard for (PMcCool), suggested I would like it, so I decided to give it a spin.

The original recipe is from Bernard Clayton. One of the things Clayton does in this and other recipes I have made is to use very warm water for the mix along with a short primary ferment time and then an overnight chilled proof. Since the dough starts off life warm, it does rise fully while in the refrigerator. I suspect this also helps develop a better flavor. Another component of the flavor being the grated lemon rind, I suspect is enhanced by the warm water helping release the oils of the fruit.

The crumb is about what you would expect from a 40% Whole Wheat mix. The dough and later the bread has a very unusual and surprising aroma with the Lemon. This is an aromatic bread of the highest order. Paul said he liked the way the lemon plays off the WW and I think that's a good description of what I sence. So grab a copy of Claytons book and give this a try.


Marni's picture

I bake bread at least twice a week plus the cookies and quick breads that are the treats around here, but I just haven't had the time to post.  That combined with the fact that most of my bread baking is about getting sandwiches made that my kids will eat!  Panned loaves didn't seem interesting enough for me to keep track of, but hey, I'm baking like crazy and sometimes I like to look back and see the results of all the work.  Too bad I didn't get a shot of the eight loaves of challah last week.

So, I made this last week - It's called Clay's Sourdough Multigrain off the King Arthur site.  I rarely follow recipes exactly, this one called for wheat bran and I used wheat germ, also I subbed spelt for one of the flours.   I used Bob's Red Mill 8 Grain cereal for the grain mix.  It didn't  rise a lot, (the recipe said it wouldn't) but it was light and had a wonderful, developed flavor.  But- my kids won't touch it- it has "things" in it.Clay's Sourdough Multigrain

Because most of my bread baking is  sandwich bread, I try to find something different, just to make it more interesting for me.  I think my kids would eat the same bread every day.  This next bake is "Our Favorite Sandwich Bread" also from the KAF site.

Again I changed a few things.  My changes:  I doubled it, I used rice milk for the milk, I subbed Earth Balance margerine for the butter (and used a bit less) and I made it with half white whole wheat.  It needed close to 1/2c more rice milk to get the right consistency.

It rose beautifully and then took off again in the oven.  I haven't tasted it, but it smells great and made nice PB&J sandwiches this morning. I think it's a kid pleaser.  Straight bread, easy to make too.

KAF sandwich loaves


crumb shot


trailrunner's picture

I haven't been taking pics lately but have been baking as usual. Wanted to thank David and also document how wonderful this formula is. I have a starter , thanks to Gaarp, that doubles in one hour. I take it out of the fridge 1x a week and feed it q 12h for a total of 2 times and it is fantastic. I also have a rye starter and a bowl of "discard". The San Joaquin is great. Here are pics. Perfect sour for us as we are not wild about lots of sour. I have found that my starter is very happy in the fridge. At least it works for me.

I will pass along one tip that we discovered along the way. We make a lot of breads from Il Fornaio, a great Italian Bread Book. I have stopped making preferment, biga, poolish....I only use my works wonders. Believe it or not. The bread rises and has the most wonderful complex sweetness. My discard is a blend of both of my starters...rye and white ( alto and sax) and they are both 100% hydration. Try it. Take out the required amount of your discard and sub it for your biga/preferment/poolish...what a treat.

Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket Photobucket

discard as "biga"


xaipete's picture

Baker Beware!

I'm making a blog entry to document my experience with Leader's Corn-Rye Rounds from Local Breads. The recipe was simple enough and the little rounds seemed to turn out as described by the recipe, but they tasted just awful. I was so disappointed that I didn't even take a picture of these little round rock-like things with a very odd and inharmonious taste of corn and rye. I threw them all in the trash.


rcornwall's picture

I have finally developed a great formula for a naturally leavened sourdough. They are slow rising, but they come up very nicely. The problem is that when I slash them, they deflate. I tried to make a more shallow slash, but then I don't get a nice looking slash after final baking. Maybe I am proofing too long I guess, but I don;t get the nice open holed texture I like if I don't proof it to that point. I am using a very sharp lame each time so I know that isnt the problem either. Any ideas?


LindyD's picture

"Cheese Bread" is a rather drab description of this strongly flavored bread, so I decided to give it the name of the cheese I used.  

The overall formula (which includes a stiff levain) is:

Bread flour - 100%

Water - 60%

Olive oil -  5%

Salt -  1.5%

Yeast -  1% (or half that amount if you plan to retard the bread overnight)

Parmesan cheese -  20%

Half the cheese is cubed and half grated, then added to the dough after it has been mixed to moderate gluten development.

I was unable to retard the dough overnight because of lack of refrigerator space.  

The bread was wonderful lightly toasted and served with a breakfast egg.  It would be a terrific accompaniment with spaghetti, as well as broiled with a bit of garlic, olive oil, sliced tomatoes, and maybe a dash of fresh mozzarella.  

Am betting it will also make excellent croutons and bread crumbs.

This is a great recipe for a special occasion and the quality of the cheese you use will have a major effect on the result.  

Only one caveat:  it will make one very lousy PB&J!


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