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varda

One of the great things about TFL is that when I see an ingredient at the store, even though I've never used it before I know it will be good because of all the posts I've read.   So it was the other day while shopping at Costco, when a bag of Deglet Noor dates jumped into my basket and came home with me.   I've only eaten dates a few times, and don't like them so much as I find them too sweet and sticky.   Nonetheless, there they were and so had to be used.    The next day, I built up my rye sour way too much getting ready for market day and was on the verge of tossing the extra as I already had enough baking to do.   But then I remembered the dates.   So I pulled them out, cut them in half, and computing madly, made up a bread around them.    I made two loaves, a pan loaf and a hearth loaf.   The hearth loaf was so pretty I decided to sell it at the market the next day, but we ate the other one.    When my husband tasted it, he announced that if I only wanted to make breads like that, it would be fine with him.    And really it was delicious.  

I may not like dates in general, but apparently I like dates in bread. 

Then my real baking for market day got going.   I made crown challahs, cherry almond whole wheat loaves, baguettes, Hamelman's Pain au Levain with mixed starters, and rolls made out of the same dough.  

The market was as slow as can be, but I still sold almost everything.   I traded two of the leftover loaves - one for corn, and the other for quiche.   Then had one baguette left to take home.   

I've learned a lot about baking larger quantities since I last posted using a lot of the great advice I got here.   Friday-Saturday I made 26 loaves and 10 rolls.   It is a lot of work, but easier as time goes on.   My last bake before running off to the market was a load of baguettes (8) and the rolls.   For some reason, my oven was just not hot enough and I couldn't get either the baguettes or the rolls properly browned before I had to go.   But they sold anyhow, and no one seems to mind a paler loaf or roll except for me.  

 

Date Bread   
     
      Final      Starter        Total          BP
KAAP400 40046%
WW300 30035%
Rye 16216219%
Water51013364375%
Salt16 161.9%
Dates146 14617%
Rye Sour295  19%
     
Flour862   
Dough1667   
     
Mix all intensely in mixer - dough is very wet
Bulk Retard at 10pm   
Remove after 10 hours  
Shape    
Proof    
Bake at 450 for 45 minutes with steam 

 

 

Cherry Almond Whole Wheat  
     
KAAP 434314%
Rye 414114%
WW218 21872%
Water1536321671%
Salt6 62%
Broken almonds35 3512%
Dried cherries50 5017%
Yeast2 21%
Starter72   
Sour75   
     
total flour302   
total dough611   
Preferment %28%   
     
    
Autolyse flour and water 1 hour   
Mix all until  relatively strong 15 minutes 
BF 2 hours   
Shape    
Retard 8 hours   
Bake at 450 with steam for 45 minutes 

 

 

 

 

Date Bread   
9/5/2013    
 FinalStarterTotalBP
KAAP400 40046%
WW300 30035%
Rye 16216219%
Water51013364375%
Salt16 161.9%
Dates146 14617%
Rye Sour295  19%
     
Flour862   
Dough1667   
     
Mix all intensely in mixer - dough is very wet
Bulk Retard at 10pm   
Remove after 10 hours  
Shape    
Proof    
Bake at 450 for 45 minutes with steam 
varda's picture
varda

Today, I attended my first farmer's market as a vendor.   Yesterday I baked around three times more bread at one time than I had ever done before.   Miraculously it all came out fine with no kitchen disasters.  This morning I finished up the baking and drove a couple towns over to Carlisle.   I had never been to the Carlisle market before.   I had two reasons for picking it.   One, I figured, given that Carlisle is pretty sparsely populated, that the market might be small enough for me to be able to manage.   The second is that unlike Lexington, they were willing to let me start in the middle of the season.   Sure enough, it was a fairly small and low key market.   The neighboring booth was a lemonade stand staffed by a seven year old and his parents.

So I relaxed and got ready to sell bread armored with my hastily purchased $6 sign from Staples.

There were plenty of baked goods, but only a couple other loaves about, and nothing like mine.   The market officially opened at 8 am, but there were only a trickle of customers and few of those interested in bread.    I figured I was going to be bringing a lot of loaves home, or engaging in some pretty furious barter for corn and squash at the end of the market.   

And yet, slowly but surely over the course of the morning my loaves walked away one by one, and in the opposite order that I expected.  

First to disappear were the flaxseed ryes.

Then went the Cherry Almond Whole Wheats.

The baguettes took longer to go, perhaps because they were a bit pale due to my needing the oven for the Challah rolls.   Finally a woman who would have preferred a Cherry Almond decided to take the last baguette home.  

When it was all over, I had only four challah rolls left out of my starting 18 loaves and 19 rolls.

The crowd seemed to divide into two parts (in my mind of course.)   The people who glanced at the bread, and then walked on as if they hadn't seen anything.    The second group would be almost past, when suddenly their eyes would lock on the bread, and they would circle slowly back, and only after a moment or two remembering to look up and say hello.   Of course, I liked those people better.  

One woman bought a roll, took a bite, and informed me it was dry.   I noticed that as she walked away she was still eating it.    Ten minutes later, she came back and said that after a bite or two she realized how good it was.   She just had to reorient herself from puffy.   

I experienced the limits of my kitchen all in one night.    I reached capacity on my scale (5 K) my Assistent Mixer which started chucking up bits of rye dough all over the place as they got too close to the top of the bowl.   My counter space and oven, and so forth.   But I survived, and sold my bread, and I'm ready to do it all over again next week.  Now I just have to figure out what to make.    

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varda

I have been making a lot of baguettes lately.    I had a particularly promising one the other day - took a bite, left the room, came back to find the dog eating it.   That's what happens when you make a lot of baguettes, I suppose.   

My husband asked me if I was driving myself crazy with making all these baguettes.   The answer?   No, I'm just trying to learn how to do it.   And you have to make a lot to learn.   So there it is.    And fortunately unlike some of my rye-ier efforts, he actually likes to eat the endless series of practice rounds.  

Today's entry?   A lower hydration overnight retarded sourdough version.   It rolled out a lot longer than I expected - 20 inches - as I did a long rest after the preshape.   It surprised me that the shaping was much easier with this long rest and it didn't seem to get overproofed.    As my baguette trays are 16 inches long instead of proofing on the tray, I placed it diagonally on a 16 inch sheet seam side down, covered with couche, and supported the sides.  

It sang like crazy coming out of the oven and looked ok if a bit mottled - I'm not sure why.

I was thrilled with the taste.   My best yet without question.   This had exactly the smooth creamy crumb texture that I have been striving for with an absolutely crisp and brittle crust.   The sourdough gives it a deep flavor, with not a hint of sour.  

Since I rolled it out so thin it had a bit higher ratio of crust to crumb for every bite, than I might have hoped.   So at least a shade thicker and shorter next time.  

      Final   Starter   Total Baker's %
KAAP15042192 
Water1002812867%
Salt3 31.6%
Starter70  22%
   323 
     
Mix all by hand - a couple minutes 
Bulk Ferment 1 hour  
Stretch and Fold in bowl  
Seal container and refrigerate for 13 hours
Remove and preshape  
Place upside down in couche  
Rest 1.5 hours   
Shape and place diagonally on 16 inch sheet
Cover with couche and support on both sides
Proof for 1.5 hours   
Slash and bake at 450 for 30 minutes 
steam at beginning   
Rotate at 25 minutes  

If you ask am I likely to be posting any more on baguettes, I will have to quote Winston Churchill.  

"Now this is not the end. It is not even the beginning of the end. But it is, perhaps, the end of the beginning."

After all, I still haven't fully explored hydration or yeast vs starter or retardation time or starter plus biga or...

And just in case you are wondering if my dog story is a bit too shaggy...

Does this look like a shaggy dog?

 

 

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varda

Recently I decided it was time to try to learn to make baguettes.    My strategy has been to make baguettes every day, both to get practice and to try different approaches.    Since I am making them so frequently and often tucked in the middle of other bakes, I don't always have good records.  That hasn't been much of an issue, as these are practice baguettes and haven't been that terrific.    The other day, though, amidst baking other bread, I made the tastiest baguettes ever.    Unfortunately my records were incomplete, and I wasn't entirely sure what I had done.  

The ones pictured here are all white, 80% hydration, 20% prefermented flour, refrigerated in bulk for 20 hours.  

As part of this learning process I have been reading a lot on TFL from all (actually some, there are a lot) of the great baguette makers including Janedo's great post on the Bouabsa method, and David S's amplifications and Mark Sinclair's amplications on those amplifications, and of course txfarmer.    This makes learning so much easier.    Thank you all.  

Here are the difficulties I am having.   First and foremost shaping.    I know this is entirely a function of the high hydration I have chosen.    And yet, based on my experience so far, they seem to get tastier at higher hydrations (and perhaps prettier at lower.)    So I would like to make it work.   I have been proofing on parchment paper seam side down on a baking sheet, using the parchment as a couche for support.   This way I don't have to attempt to move them when time to load into the oven other than to flatten out the parchment.   Scoring is even worse than shaping.   My lame just gets lost in the soft dough.   I can't get a clean cut.   So suggestions extremely welcome. 

And now on to recreating that unrecorded baguette.  

Update:   I have tried a few more times and got quite different results.   A bit mystified but here is the latest:

Somewhat dramatic difference in shaping and slashing no?

So what changed:

Formula:  

Instead of 80% hydration, 75% hydration

Instead of 20% prefermented flour from starter, 25% prefermented flour from starter

Method:

Instead of 20 hour retard, 24 hour retard

Instead of 30 minute rest and 1 hour proof, 25 minute rest and 50 minute proof

Equipment:

Instead of baking on sheet on stone, proofed and baked on baguette tray.

Taste?  

I'll just say it is a tasty morsel, and a fine resting point for now.   No need to get obsessive after all.

Formula and Method:

Baguette    
         Final     Starter       Total         BP
     
KAAP18060240 
Water1404018075%
Salt4 41.7%
Starter100  25%
     
Total dough424   
     
Mix all 3 minutes speed 1  
Rest 1 hour    
Mix around30 sec speed 1  
Refrigerate at 10 am   
Remove at 11 am    
Cut and preshape   
Rest 25 minutes   
Shape (300g baguette, 100g roll)  
Proof 50 minutes   
Bake at 480 for 30 minutes  
Steam at beginning   

 

 

 

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varda

Lately I've been baking a lot, as I decided my family's appetites did not quite coincide with either the type or amount of bread that I wanted to bake.   This has led to a conundrum, as I have occasionally made a great many loaves and then ended the day with no bread in the house.   Suddenly my barely tolerated bread has become a must have, so I have to make up the difference with a few more loaves after the big bake is over.   Yesterday I made these loaves which all went to good homes by the end of the day.  

Today, to make up for the lack of bread in the house,  I made a couple more durum loaves, and then a somewhat of a mystery boule.   The mystery wasn't what was in it, but how much, as my scale bit the dust before I could weigh the ingredients.   So basically some white starter, rye sour, KAAP, water and salt.   The water must have been quite a bit, as the dough turned out to be quite wet.  

These durum loaves were the first I've made with King Midas Extra Fancy Durum.   I was pleased to taste them and find that I couldn't tell any difference between that and King Arthur, and as you can see below, the crumb color didn't suffer.  

The mystery boule dwarfs the durum one. 

It has a nice light sourdough texture and flavor.   Of course I will never be able to recreate it.   I suppose the point is just to eat it.  

Durum Levain

   
 

Final

Starter

Total

BP

KAAP

 

38

38

10%

Durum

343

 

343

90%

Water

281

26

307

80%

Salt

8

 

8

2.1%

Yeast

4

 

4

1.0%

Starter

64

   
     

Total flour

381

   

Total dough

700

   
     

Mix mostly at speed 2 - 2 minutes at speed 3

Intense enough for some cohesion

 

BF 1 hour 30 minutes

  

Shape and proof in basket

  

Bake at 450 with steam, 40 minutes

 

 

varda's picture
varda

This morning I baked a sprouted wheat loaf.   I had made my first one the other day and it was an ugly duckling but delicious, so my plan was to make a prettier bigger one.   I succeeded on the bigger.

I will say this though - this loaf rose very nicely both in and out of the oven, and I didn't use any VWG.   I did however use lots of rye sour and starter which had the effect of obscuring the wonderful taste of the sprouted wheat.   Good but not ready for prime time.  Back to drawing board.   Ideas?

No sooner was my sprouted loaf out of the oven when it hit me that I had a pain de mie biga timing out in the refrigerator.   I had not been planning to make a second loaf today but didn't want to lose it, so I gave up on what I was supposed to do and made the pain de mie.    This time, again following Janet, I decided to make a 100% whole white wheat loaf.   I had made one with high extraction flour earlier which tasted terrific but was somewhat disappointingly flat.  

This one was much better behaved.   After mixing my last one for 45 minutes it was still a liquid although a particularly viscous one.    Here, after 20 minutes or so of intensive mixing, the dough came together in a ball, but didn't windowpane.   I gave it a 10 minutes rest, then mixed around 10 more minutes.   This time it was definitively done.

Much to my delight, it did not come out of the oven looking like a cornfield flattened in a tornado but had a pretty nice loft (see above.)   Comparing it to my last (same size) white pain de mie (see below) it wasn't shaped all that differently.

Crumb shot:

Formulas, Methods:

Sprouted Wheat Loaf

 FinalSourStarterSoakTotalBP
Wheat berries362   36259%
KAAP  84 8414%
Rye 83  8314%
KABF80   8013%
Water120675615539865%
Honey27   274%
Salt12   122.0%
Rye Sour150     
Starter140     
       
Total Flour609     
Total Dough1046     
Preferment %27%     
       
Sprout wheat (number in final dough is dry weight of wheat) 
Mix all - vigorous mix until dough coheres in loose ball  
Bulk ferment 2.5 hours     
Shape into sandwich loaf and place in pan   
Rest 20 minutes     
Bake at 350 for 45 minutes - add steam at beginning  
Bake at 450 outside of pan for 18 minutes until nutty brown 

Whole Wheat Pain de Mie

 FinalBigaTang ZhongTotalBP
White Whole Wheat10823323365100%
Sugar42715014%
Milk401502321359%
Eggs55  5515%
Butter32 104212%
Yeast31 41.0%
Salt4  41.1%
Biga442    
TZ 58   
      
Total flour365    
Total dough732    
      
      
Heat milk salt sugar butter to almost boiling   
Mix in flour     
Refrigerate for 16 hours    
Mix ingredients for Biga    
Refrigerate for 48 hours    
Mix all but butter - when ingredients incorporated add butter 
Mix intensively in mixer until dough is very strong  
Rest 1 hour     
Shape in pieces     
Proof until almost soft    
Glaze with milk     
Bake at 350 for 40 minutes    

 

varda's picture
varda

Some time ago I posted on a chocolate borodinsky.  This was scaled to a mammoth 1.4 Kg to fill my 4x4x9 Pullman pan.  That's a lot of Borodinsky particularly since certain people in my domicile eschew high ryes.   (And eschew doesn't mean chew.)   So what do you do if you want a  bit of Borodinsky, or you are baking for other folks who love carbs, but not that many of them.   One cannot piece Borodinsky loaves as you could say a pain de mie.  Paste doesn't piece.   A dilemma.  

The answer?

Cut a piece of parchment paper to width of pan.   Fold in half and fold loose ends to form an upside down T.  Hold vertical in pan at right division point, and then spoon in desired weight of each loaf on either side of parchment.   When pan is full, smooth down each side with wet spatula.   Proof and bake.   As you can see above, this worked.   The division wasn't quite as straight up and down as I had hoped, probably because I didn't get the exact right spot to divide the loaf.    I baked this for 50 minutes, then removed from pan.   The divisions simply fell apart from each other.   No pulling required.   I baked outside of pan for around 10 minutes longer.  

Since this loaf was experimental, I decided to cut the small one right after cooling to see if there was any reason to wait 24 hours or so as I usually do.   (Electric light plus flash.)

The crumb was actually fine - not gummy as I expected.   And the taste was good as well.   I didn't do the scald until the morning for these loaves, but I think its better done night before.

The small loaves are kind of cute.

And I think more satisfying to have a whole small loaf than a cut big one.  

Update:   Here is second loaf crumb- cut after 22 hours (outdoor light)

 

Formula and method

scaled to one 450g (dough weight) and one 700g loaf. 

 

       Small   Medium     Large             Bake small and medium
        
        
Rye Sour - 167% hydration - Whole Rye     
        
Scald       
WR335270 85  
Boiling Water80125169 205  
Molasses132128    
Chocolate Malted Rye121824 30  
Ground coriander123 3  
        
Final Dough       
WR67104141 170  
KABF446994 113  
Water162534 41  
Molasses000 0  
Chocolate Malted Rye000 0  
Malted Rye356 7  
Salt357 8  
Ground coriander000 0  
Rye Sour177276375 454  
Scald139217294 356  
 450700950 1150  
Feed starter to amount night before (must be frothy in the am before using)
Mix up scald and let rest 1 hour 1:008:45 AM 
Mix starter and scald to make sponge  3:309:45 AM 
Mix all then BF  1:151:15 PM 
Put parchment paper in pan as boundary0:102:30 PM 
Spoon in 686g dough into one side0:052:40 PM 
Spoon 444g into the other 0:052:45 PM 
Smooth down each side  2:50 PM 
Proof  1:002:50 PM 
Bake with steam at 450 for 50 minutes0:503:50 PM 
Remove from pan and separate 0:054:40 PM 
Bake 10 more minutes to harden 0:104:45 PM 
Remove and cool   4:55 PM 
      
Total prep time  8:10  

varda's picture
varda

It was late.   I had three breads to prepare for.   This meant two starters, two soakers and a biga.   My eyes drooped.   I was almost done - once I made the second soaker, and then the biga, I could go to sleep.   Yet something was wrong and I didn't know what.   I looked down.   Instead of holding a bag of whole wheat flour, I was holding a bag of whole rye flour.  And I had already made the biga and the soaker for whole wheat sandwich bread with rye instead of wheat.   No rest for the weary.   I placed the mistaken soaker and biga in sealed tubs in the back of the refrigerator, and made the biga and soaker again - this time with wheat.    

What a difference a day makes.   My three breads prepared, I thought, hmmm.   Wonder what I could do with that rye soaker and biga?   I had extra starter.   That's always a good place to start.   But isn't it the case that wheat doesn't raise rye?   That's what I have believed for the last three years.   And yet.... extra starter, misbegotten biga and soaker.     I pulled the rye soaker and biga out of the refrigerator.   They both had taken on the texture of cement during their overnight stay.  Not very promising.    I'd probably be throwing good flour after bad.   But really, what did I have to lose?

So I mixed up the soaker, biga, starter, added some extra bread flour, salt and water for good luck, and had a dough of some sort, not sure what.   Then went through sort of half rye, half wheat bread steps, as I wasn't really sure what I had.    Then baked it.   It came out of the oven looking surprisingly pleasant.   As it cooled, I finally sat down to write down the formula of what I had in front of me.    More rye than wheat, percentages reasonable given that I did all the computations in my head at the counter.   And not enough rye that I had to wait until next day to cut.   All it needed was to cool down. 

I cut.   Hmmm.  

Really not that bad looking.  I tasted. 

Pleasant, mild, rye bread, without the sour tang that comes from leavening with rye sour.   A bread that many people might enjoy.   A bread that I would like to make again.  But on purpose next time.

Weird.

Formula and method:

Mistake Bread

     

5/23/2013

      
       
 

     Final

       Starter

       Soaker

          Biga

          Total

        BP

KAAP

105

60

  

165

44%

Rye

  

106

106

211

56%

Water

88

40

 

79

207

55%

Milk

  

92

 

92

24%

Salt

5

 

2

 

7

1.8%

Yeast

   

1

1

0.3%

Starter

100

     

Soaker

199

     

Biga

186

     
       

Total Flour

376

     

Total Dough

683

     

Hydration

80%

     
       

Scald milk

      

Make biga and soaker night before and refrigerate

  

After 15 hours mix all.

     

Dough is pasty but relatively firm

    

BF 1.5 hours

      

Shape into boule

     

Proof 1.5 hours

     

Bake at 450 with steam for 40 minutes

   

 

 

 

 

 

 

varda's picture
varda

Recently I posted on a bake of Syd's Asian style pain de mie, and Janet commented that she was going to make it with her white whole wheat home milled flour.   I decided to try something similar.    Instead of white whole wheat, I used my golden flour which is home milled hard red whole wheat with some of the bran and some coarse flour sifted out.    I believe the closest official name to this would be high extraction flour, probably around 90%.

I followed the original formula with the following changes:

-Added a bit more milk in the biga

-Used golden flour in the biga and final dough but not the Tang Zhong

-Added a bit more milk and egg in the final dough

During the intensive mix of the final dough, it acted quite different than the original.   It started out with the consistency of pudding, and stayed that way for quite awhile.   I put it in my Bosch Compact at speed 4 and mixed a long time.   Finally, getting bored, I walked away.   When I came back, the dough had changed and started to lighten and come together elastically.    I let it go for awhile longer, and finallly, when it was still spreading out irregularly but was clearly an elasticized mass, stopped.   Possibly 45 minutes?   I'm not sure, as I wasn't watching the clock.  The dough was still more liquid than solid.   When I took the dough off the hook, it poured slowly down, but sheeted out into an impossibly thin membrane without tearing.  

When it came time to shape, the dough was not as manageable as the white version, but still shaped fairly nicely.    The surface was bubbling up a bit, which I figured would mean a more open crumb - not the desirable thing for this kind of bread per Syd.   

The upshot?   A bread that is just as decadently delicious as its predecessor, with the added whole wheat flavor.   Healthier?   I let you be the judge.

The crumb?   Nothing much to look at.  Just whole wheaty sandwichy.

But try this with your basic whole wheat sandwich bread:

Inadvertently perhaps, I made some changes to the method:  I've been baking a lot of challah so I ended up following times and temps for challah.   In Syd's version bulk ferment is only 30 minutes, and bake temperature is 350 instead of 375.

Formula and method:

 

Final

Biga

Tang Zhong

Total

BP

Golden

100

233

 

333

93%

KAAP

  

23

23

7%

Sugar

40

7

1

48

13%

Milk

39

150

23

212

60%

Eggs

52

  

52

15%

Butter

33

 

10

43

12%

Yeast

2

1

 

2

0.7%

Salt

4

  

4

1.1%

Biga

442

    

TZ

 

58

   
      

Total flour

357

    

Total dough

717

    
      
      

Heat milk salt sugar butter to almost boiling

  

Mix in flour

     

Refrigerate for 16 hours

   

Mix ingredients for Biga

   

Refrigerate for 48 hours

   

Mix all but butter - when ingredients incorporated add butter

Mix intensively in mixer until dough is very strong

 

Rest 60 minutes

    

Shape in pieces

    

Proof until almost soft - then glaze with milk

   

Bake at 375 for 40 minutes

   

 

 

 

varda's picture
varda

When Floyd posted his Hokkaido Milk Bread I just had to try it.    Finally I got to it, and tasted it and then thought, I've made this before, even though I knew I'd never made a bread called Hokkaido bread.    I went back to the databanks and found that a year and a half ago, I made   Syd's Asian Style Pain de Mie, which is what I had been thinking of.  I must have had some sort of trauma interference with my memory as at the time my Kitchen Aid was not up to the task of intensive kneading, so I did it by hand which was a bigger workout than I had bargained for.   Fortunately, now I have upgraded to a tiny little Bosch which is much more suited to the task.   That freed me up to bake both of these breads. 

So being somewhat anal...ytical, I decided to bake them side by side and see how similar they really are.   First the formulas:

 

Syd's scaled to

472 g

    

Floyd's scaled to

472

  

factor

0.2

       

0.3

  
 

Final

Biga

Tang Zhang

Total

B %

  

Final

Tang Zhang

Total

`

AP Flour

67

157

16

240

  

AP Flour

222

15

236

 

Sugar

27

4

0.7

32

13%

 

Sugar

31

 

31

13%

Milk

22

97

16

135

56%

 

Milk

79

73

153

65%

Eggs

31

  

31

13%

 

Eggs

28

 

28

12%

Butter

22

 

7

29

12%

 

Butter

15

 

15

6%

Yeast

1

0.4

 

2

0.7%

 

Yeast

4

 

4

1.6%

Salt

3

 

0.2

3

1.2%

 

Salt

5

 

5

2.0%

    

472

     

472

 

Quite similar.  What the Pain de Mie lacks in hydration it makes up for in butter, and so forth. 

These formulas reflect two changes I made in the Hokkaido bread - for all the milk products listed in Floyd's formula, I used milk, as well as all the liquid in the Tangzhong.   Also I upped the salt to 2% which I meant to undo today, but which I forgot to undo.  

While the ingredients are the same, and percents at least similar, the methods are quite different.   Syd's is made over a four day period - first the tangzhong, then a biga like thing, then final dough.   Floyd's on the other hand is made all in one shot.   Also the tangzhong ingredients and procedures are different.   I followed each of the methods as written.  

The doughs handled fairly differently.   The Pain de Mie after around 10 minutes of pounding at high speed, came together in a tight ball.   The Hokkaido bread took a longer beating and while it window paned beautifully, it still remained somewhat slack and sticky.   At shaping, they also handled somewhat differently, with the Hokkaido being more airy and light, and the Pain de Mie more easy to manage. 

Now the crumb (or should I say the mie.)

First Hokkaido:

Now the Pain de Mie:

Similar yes?

And now the question - are they shreddably soft?

Yes - I think so.

First Hokkaido:

Now Pain de Mie:

And finally - the taste:

They are very similar.   However there are subtle differences:   The best distinction I can come up with is  the Pain de Mie is smooth and creamy, while the Hokkaido is a bit sharper.  Both are really delicious.  

So going forward, which version would I make?   If I remember my four day window, I'd go with the Pain de Mie simply to get that extra smooth and cream texture.    If I forgot the window, I'd make the Hokkaido.  

And that's that.

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