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June 15, 2021. 53rd TFL bake.

The only things I measured:

  • 3/8 tsp of salt,
  • 10 grams dry whole chia seed, and
  • 40 grams water to soak the chia seed.

Everything else was eyeballed, hence "some of this, some of that" (sotsot):

  • Some SD discard refreshed into a stiff starter/biga yesterday, an hour or so at room temp then overnight in fridge. Was KA bread flour, then  added WW durum and some AP.
  • More Patel brand stone ground WW durum.
  • Some Golden Temple durum atta, white/red bag.
  • Some quick oats (not instant oats).
  • Some dry whole poppy seeds.
  • Some Arrowhead Mills organic All Purpose flour, sifted.
  • Some Bob's Red Mill stone ground Whole wheat, red wheat.

Mixed. Kneaded a little. Let it bulk ferment with some intermitent kneading/folding. Didn't time it. When it seemed ready, folded and shaped, and put in 8" inner diameter (8.5" outer diameter) banneton, with liner, and liner was dusted with 50/50 mix of rice flour and white bread/AP flour. Banneton fits cast iron plate perfectly, but dough did not fill banneton.

Baked in toaster oven on a Lodge 9.25 " cast iron  serving plate.  36 minutes total. 28 minutes with bottom-heat only, last 8 minutes with bottom and top heat.  Rotated the loaf 90 degrees, 3 times, every 2 minutes, during those last 8 minutes.  


  • 2 min.
  • rotate 90 degrees.
  • 2 min.
  • rotate 90 devrees.
  • 2 min.
  • rotate 90 degrees.
  • 2 min.

First 20 min at 425 F thermostat setting. Last 16 minutes at 400 F. Bottom still burned.

The paper plate is 9" in diameter.

idaveindy's picture

June 9, 2021.

So I've been playing a lot with stone-ground WW durum. It makes great flatbread/chapatis at 100%, and great egg-less noodles at 50% mixed with 50% Golden Temple white/red bag durum.

I wrote somewhere, that anything over 33% WW durum in a leavened loaf bread just doesn't seem to be workable.  It becomes a brick, or a rubbery sponge.

Mariana mentioned that there is a popular Russian flour mix that uses 25% durum, so I thought I'd play with that number.


  • 500 g total flour.
  • 25% WW stone-ground durum, Patel brand. $.40/pound. $8 per 20 pound bag.
  • 40% Bob's Red Mill WW red wheat, stone-ground.
  • 15% Golden Temple durum, white/red bag. Has some bran, but not much.
  • 10% KA bread flour.
  • 10% Arrowhead Mills organic AP.  Bought it on sale. Need to use it up. Clumpy. Needed sifting.

Started with 350 g water.

Let it rest several hours.

Pulled off 40 g of dough and set it aside to make a chapati. (Needed to add flour to it.)

Worked in 16 g water.

Worked in another 16 g water.

Worked in 57 g of cold 100% hydration starter, last fed 6 days ago, but stirred every 2 days.

Worked in 6 g of plain olive oil.

Lots of hand kneading.

Bulk ferment. Several stretch and folds.


Proofed in banneton.

Baked in a Lodge 10.25" cast iron pan with two short handles, in a counter-top toaster oven, Ambiano brand, from Aldi. 450 F. Total 42 minutes.   A 9" diameter baking stone was placed on the lower burner guards, under the oven rack.  Cast iron pan was sitting on the oven rack, lower position, so there was air space between the pan and the stone.  Pan and stone were pre-heated at 450 F., the oven max.

Used bottom heat only for first 35 minutes. Loaf was not covered with anything. To brown the top, I used bottom and top heat for the  last 7 minutes, rotating the pan 90 degrees every 2 minutes to keep it even.

I did not keep meticulous records, so the timings may not be accurate.


Came out great. Cooled it for 90 minutes, tried some. Excellent crumb. Top crust okay. Bottom crust over-baked, almost burned.  Plan is to reduce heat next time to 425 after the first 10 minutes.

I had to give it away to a neighbor or I would have eaten it all in one sitting.


Mariana and the Russians are right.  25% WW durum is good. 


idaveindy's picture

Almost any bread flour, from white to whole wheat will do.

Here's where I got my inspiration, but exact measurements/weights are not given:

For a variation, see:

(Chapati / paratha, to-may-to / to-mah-to.) There is a video in each one too.

Here are some formulas I've worked up:

Bob's Red Mill WW (red wheat): 2% salt(3), 68% H2O, 2% oil(1).

50% AP, 50% Bread flour: 2% salt, 55.8% H2O, 2% oil(1).

Stone ground whole grain durum: 2% salt, 66.7% H2O, 3% oil after 2 hours(2)(4).

Sher Fiber Wala durum: 2% salt, 74-75% H2O, 1-2% oil(1). Let rest at least one hour after adding oil for best results.

Golden Temple durum, white/red bag: 2% salt, 62-63% H2O, 2% oil(1).

Swad durum semolina (the gritty stuff): 2% salt, 57% H2O, 2% oil after 30 minutes(4).

Regular durum semolina is low bran (it has some) so it doesn't take much water.  Also, because you have to let chapati  dough rest a while, the grittiness eventually goes away. 

Note (1): mix/knead to a homogenous dough before adding oil. I like the flour to be hydrated first, then get to the oil.

Note (2): this particular flour takes a long time to hydrate, so give it at least two hours before adding oil.

Note (3): In all these, salt can be reduced or eliminated if the chapati is to be served with a salty/savory dish.

Note (4): In the cases where you have to let the dough rest at least 30 minutes before adding oil, let it rest at least 15 minutes after adding oil.


Important: You must let the dough rest at least 30 minutes after mixing before rolling out. If using all white flour, you can rest it for less time, but at least 15 minutes.


The uncooked dough can keep a day or two in the fridge. I use a plastic bag with the air squeezed out.


Tortillas/chapatis are as much about rolling technique and cooking technique as they are about the ratio of ingredients.  

For instance, rolling out, wiping on a little oil and flour, foldng, and rolling again, gives a layered chapati. But this is optional.

Use a sprinkle, maybe 1/8 tsp of white flour per side, to keep the chapati from sticking when you roll it out.  This should also keep it from sticking on the griddle. White (refined) flour is best for this step as it absorbs into the surface quickly.

Coarsely ground flour at this point will not have time to soften. So use store-bought white flour for dusting at this point, if using home-milled flour for the chapati.

You want the surface of the chapati to be dry enough to not stick, but the inside of the chapati needs moisture that will eventually soften the chapati as it cools after cooking.  

I like about 30 grams of _flour_ per chapati, so for the BRM-WW above that would be 30*1.72 = 51.6 grams of dough.   

I roll these out to about 7" diameter.

These are cooked on a dry flat griddle or pan/skillet on the stove top. The video in the above Madhura's recipe shows how.

There are two ways to go when cooking: lower heat (electric burner setting 2 to 3 out of 10) for 2-3 min per side, or medium (electric burner setting 4 to 5 out of 10) for 45-60 seconds per side.

I give 30 seconds to the first side, flip, then give it 60 seconds checking to see where brown spots are, pressing down with spatula or paper towel where needed, flip again, and give it 30 seconds, checking and pressing where needed.

You can let it puff up, using a spatula to help it along, or poke the bubbles to keep it flat.  I like keeping it flat.  See Madhura's chapati video (1st link above) for how to roll it and cook it to get it completely puffed up.

You want to cook each side until you get brown spots, but don't make the surface crispy, or it won't soften after cooking. 

After cooking, it needs to be enclosed in something so that the moisture equalizes, and the surface softens.  I give mine 15 minutes. More or less might work too.

I use a "tortilla keeper" like this one:

This is the tricky part, but you have to cook it just right in the first place so that the inside is cooked to "done" and at the same time enough moisture is left to soften the whole thing. So you also have to get the dough to the sweet spot in terms of hydration too.


If you are going to re-cook the chapatis as part of a recipe, such as a quesadilla or as a base for a pizza, then you could undercook one side (no spots), the side that will be exposed to the hot surface in your quesadilla/pizza.


Tip: Chapatis are like pancakes, in that I usually mess up the first one in a batch. ;-)



idaveindy's picture


Mix flours. Autolyse/soak, bulk ferment.  Proof overnight.

  • 470 g Patel brand stone-ground whole grain durum.

  • 470 g Bob's Red Mill whole wheat (red).
  • 65 g Arrowhead Mills organic all purpose.
  • 62 g King Arthur bread flour.
  • 39 g King Arthur bread flour in levain.
  • 1106 g total flour.
  • 917 g water, counting the water in levain, but not counting the chia's water. 83% hydration.
  • 22 g salt.


  • 16 g whole dry chia seed soaked in 64 g water.
  • 67 g roasted (in oil) sunflower seeds.

Total weight: 917 + 1106 + 22 + 80 + 67 = 2192 g. (Less whatever stuck to bowls, utensils, and hands.)



(will fill in more details later.)




idaveindy's picture


  • 468 g Patel brand stone-ground whole wheat durum. Canadian.
  • 468 g Swad brand "Sharbati Gold" whole wheat flour. Imported from India. This is a flavorful/sweet and relatively soft wheat intended for Indian flatbreads. It is considered a high quality wheat in Indian cuisine.
  • 132 g King Arthur bread flour.
  • 132 g Arrowhead Mills organic all purpose flour.
  • 468 + 468 + 132 + 132 = 1200.  Final dough flour.
  • 24 g salt. approx 2%.
  • 15 g whole chia seed, soaked in 60 g water.
  • 84 g fresh levain, 100% hydration. (Made with King Arthur Bread flour.) Approx 3.5% PFF.  .035 x 1200 = 42.   
  • total flour = 1200 + 42 = 1242.
  • 374 g water with the WW durum. (Was too much. Dough was a gluey paste.)
  • 304 g water with the Sharbati WW flour. (Intentionaliy used too little to make up for over-hydrated durum.)
  • 166 g water with the KA bread flour and AP flour.
  • 1/2 tsp Italian seasoning, 1/2 tsp ground oregano, 1/2 tsp whole fennel seeds.
  • 40 g hold-back water added in  (2 additions of 20 g each.)
  • 374 + 304 + 166 + 42 ( in levain) +  20 + 20 =  926 g water. (not counting chia soaker.)
  • Total hydration, not counting chia soaker: 926 / 1242 = 74.4%.

Thursday the 27th: Durum was mixed with just water and soaked about an hour. Sharbati was mixed with water, intentionally a little dry, and then kneaded into the overly wet durum. The combined dough mass was coated in about 1 tsp of grape-seed oil, and left to soak/autolyse an additional 4 hours.

The KABF, A.M. AP and salt were combined by themselves, hydrated with 166 g water, and the resultant dough kneaded into the durum/Sharbati main dough.

The hydrated chia and the levain were then kneaded into the main dough.

20 g water was kneaded in.

Italian seasoning, oregano, and fennel seeds were kneaded in.

Another 20 g water was kneaded in.

4 sets of stretch-and-folds.

Bulk ferment, from the addition of levain to fold/shape/banneton, was 4 hours.

11-7/8" outer diameter (11-1/4" inner diameter) banneton, linen liner dusted with rice flour and AP flour.

Overnight proof,  10 hours in fridge. No room temp proofing, neither before nor after fridge.


Friday the 28th: Baked on a 15" Lodge cast iron skillet, with an inverted stainless steel bowl as cover. 

Dough weighed 2210 g right before going in oven.  (Lost some durum yesterday, as it stuck to things.)

  • Oven preheated to 465 F.
  • covered, 450 F, 5 min.
  • covered, 425 F, 15 min.
  • covered, 400 F, 15 min.
  • uncovered, 400 F, 25 min.
  • Final internal temp : 209.1 F.  Thump sounds good.

Crumb is excellent.  Fennel and oregano were good additions. The Italian seasoning tastes off, and appears to be the only negative.


idaveindy's picture

Sunbeam, model 5833.

Free online manual:

(For future reference.)

1: Basic program:

  • 3:00 - 2:50. Mix.  10 min.
  • 2:50 - 2:30. Rest. 20 min.
  • 2:30 - 2:15. Knead. 15 min.
  • 2:15 - 1:55. Rise. 20 min.
  • 1:55 - 1:55. Deflate.
  • 1:55 - 1:00. Rise. 55 min.
  • 1:00 - 0:00. Bake. 60 min.

2: Whole wheat program:.

  • 3:40 - 3:30. Mix. 10 min.
  • 3:30 - 3:05. Rest. 25 min.
  • 3:05 - 2:45. Knead. 20 min.
  • 2:45 - 2:15. Rise. 30 min.
  • 2:15 - 2:15. Deflate.
  • 2:15 - 1:05. Rise. 70 min.
  • 1:05 - 0:00. Bake. 65 min.
idaveindy's picture

May 15, 2021. #48.

This was a repeat of my last bake, which was way over-fermented and had collapsed. This time I used 1/2 tsp of instant dry yeast instead of 1 tsp. And this time I measured the chia and the water for it.

405 g Patel brand stone-ground whole wheat durum.

45 g Arrowhead Mills Organic AP flour.

8.5 g salt.

350 g bottled spring water.

Mixed by hand using a silicone scraper.

In a separate bowl, combined 23.2 g whole dry chia seeds, and 46.6 g water and let soak.

Added 1/2 tsp instant dry yeast to the dough, and mixed.

After mixing in the yeast, the chia had soaked up the water, so I then mixed that into the dough.

I set the bread machine to the whole wheat setting and light crust, and put the pre-mixed dough into the machine.

Last time I let the salted but un-yeasted dough soak for a few hours, this time I did not. But both times the dough was mixed outside the bread machine before the cycle began.


There was still a little collapse, but not as hilarious as before. So, I'll try 3/8's tsp yeast next time.

The bread is not as sweet as before either, so next attempt will include a soak, as before, to let the enzymes make sugar from the starch.


The collapse isn't noticeable in the slices at the end of the loaf:

idaveindy's picture

May 11, 2021.

This is a bread-machine bake.

405 g Patel brand stone-ground WW durum.

45 g Arrowhead Mills organic AP.

8.5 g of salt.

350 g bottled spring water.

Mixed by hand in a bowl, and let soak 3 hours in fridge.

Slowly kneaded in, by hand, 1 tsp instant dry yeast.

Put in bread machine on Whole Wheat setting.

Dribbled in 19 g more water.

Used a silicone scraper to help the dough along.

During first knead phase threw in some dry whole poppy seeds. Did not measure. Then threw in some dry whole chia seeds, did not measure.

Oops, those seeds need some water, so dribbled in more water, did not measure.

Oops, too wet, threw in about a tsp more of AP flour.

Dough seems a litttle loose, but it's moving around and getting kneaded well.

Dough gets really high during second rise.

Dough collapses before the bake cycle is half-way through.

At finish, there is a deep well in the top of the bread. Top crust indicates too much water was used.  Sides and bottom are well crusted.

Atter cooling, I can't resist and pull off parts of the upper crown or rim. Doesn't taste bad. Put in plastic zipper bag over night.

Next day, bread tastes even better. Crumb shows over-fermentation too, as if the collapse wasn't enough evidence.

The photos were taken after I pulled off and ate the upper rim.

The lower hole is where the bread machine paddle was removed.


idaveindy's picture

May 6, 2021.


10:35 am. Mix (by hand/spatula) to homogeneity:  (Thank you, Mariana, for that phrase.)

10:42 am. Put it in the fridge.

3:55 pm.  Take out of fridge. Mix in 40 g cold starter, last fed 3 days ago, 100% hydration. 

4:00 pm. Mix/knead in (by hand) 25 grams more water. I just went by feel to determine the amount.

4:00 - 4:15 pm. Knead by hand.

4:35 - 7:42 pm. Did various stretch and folds, at least 5, maybe up to 7.

8:45 pm. Put dough in lined 8" inner-diameter banneton. Liner was just a thin "flour sack" style tea-towel, doubled over, dusted with 50/50 mix of white rice flour and AP flour.

8:50 pm. Covered, placed in plastic shopping bag, put in fridge.

May 7, 2021.

7:45 am. Remove from fridge and bag. Not any noticeable expansion. Leave at room temp until time to bake.

7:50 am.  Start oven preheat to 475/450* F.  With Lodge 3.2 qt combo-cooker on 3rd rack up from bottom. Bottom rack has a 14" cordierite pizza stone, 1/4" thick, to block radiant heat from the bottom heating element.

8:24 am. Desired oven temp reached.  Give it about 10 more minutes for combo-cooker to achieve desired temp.

8:35 am. Sprinkle corn meal on surface of dough as it sits in banneton. Place 8.5" circle of parchment paper on top of corn meal. Invert the deep pot half of combo cooker over the banneton. Invert banneton and pot together so dough falls in. Remove banneton from pot. Cornmeal and parchment paper now insulate the bottom of the dough from the pot. Dust/scrape off excess rice-and-AP-flour from top of dough.  Score a plus sign with a bare double edged razor blade.  The dry "skin" on the dough is noticeable, and you can see the wetter inside. This will make for a nice oven bloom.

Previous experience showed that the crust of whole grain durum loaves, which had soaked/autolysed for multiple hours, carmelized too much when initial baking temp started at 475/450. So this time, I'll start at 450/425*.

8:39 am. Bake covered, 450/425* F. 15 minutes.

8:54 am. Bake covered, 425/400* F.  22 minutes.

9:16 am. Nice oven bloom!

9:16 am. Bake uncovered, 425/400*.  14 minutes. 

9:30 am. Crust and ears look browned just right.

Internal temp: 208.8 F.  Passes thump test.

* First number is oven thermostat setting, second is actual.


Paper plate is 9" in diameter.




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