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Aug. 16, 2022.  99th bake.

WW, rye, bread flour, red rye crystal malt, starter, IDY.

I used 20 grams of ground red rye crystal malt for 350 g total flour, which gave a good malty taste, but perhaps a tad too much.  Next time I'll back it off to 5%.

Inspired by other rye formulas, notably Ilya's, this time, immediately prior to baking,  I painted the top of the loaf with a mix of 6:5 ratio of water to dough.  Then after baking, I brushed on a thin layer of a gelatinized mixture taken from a small batch of about 1 tsp corn starch in 1/4 cup water. (I only used a tiny fraction.)


  • 200 g home-milled hard white spring wheat, Prairie Gold. 
  • 30 g home-milled hard red winter wheat, generic, from 2008. 
  • 20 g Simpson's Red Rye Crystal malt, ground from whole kernals. 
  • 6.5 g salt. 
  • 210 g bottled spring water. 
  • mixed above at 10:24 am.

Othe ingredients, mixed together and added as a whole to above:

  • 26.5 g 100% hydration starter, using white bread flour. 
  • 4.1 g discard (wanted to use 30 g of starter but didn't have enough.) 
  • 40 g bottled spring water. 
  • 7.1 g bread spice[1]. 
  • 15 g Gold Medal bread flour. 
  • 70 g home-milled whole rye. 
  • 1/8 tsp Fleischmann's instant dry yeast. 
  • 6.5 g bottled spring water. 
  • Mixed the dry ingredients together. Mixed the starter and water. Then right before adding the soaker, the wet and dry were combined, and then added the 6.5 g water to get hydration right. 


  • 11:45 am - 11:53 am: mixed the above with the soaker. And added another 5 g water. 
  • 12:32 pm: kneaded some. 
  • 1:30 pm: kneaded some. 
  • 2:30 pm: kneaded some. 
  • 2:53 pm: shaped and panned in a Lodge cast iron loaf pan 4LP.  Pan was greased with melted vegetable shortening (generic Crisco) and dusted with durum semolina. 
  • Top of loaf was painted with a 6:5 mixture of water:dough (same dough as loaf.) 
  • 3:59 pm: Covered in aluminum foil.  Baked in toaster oven, 400 F, with both upper and lower heating elements, "Toast Mode". Oven had been pre-heated to 450 F. 
  • There is a 9" round pizza stone sitting on top of the metal guards of the lower elements, but underneath (and not touching) the oven rack. The stone does not touch the heating elements. Being round, it does not cover the entire heating elements, maybe 3" of each one. This is enough to shield the bottom of the loaf pan from direct radiant heat of the lower elements. The loaf pan sits on the oven rack, a fraction of an inch above the stone. 
  • 4:16 pm: Rotate 180 degrees.
  • 4:22 pm: uncover, turn off upper heating elements, leaving bottom elements on, "bake mode."
  • 4:33 pm: turn back on the upper elements, "toast mode."
  • 4:44 pm:  Previous loaves took only 45 min to bake, but inner temp was only 188 F.   De-panned and put back in oven on rack.
  • 4:58 pm: 206 F.
  • After baking, I brushed the top with a cornstarch glaze. Approx 1 tsp cornstarch in 1/4 cup water, heated until gelatinous. 

The only difference from the previous loaf  I can think of that made it require 14 more minutes of bake time is painting the top with water+dough.








[1] A batch of my bread spice is:

  • 1 tbsp whole dry anise. (Use another tbsp of fennel if you don't have anise.) 
  • 1 tbsp whole dry fennel. 
  • 2 tbsp whole dry caraway. 
  • 4 tbsp whole dry coriander. (It's hollow and lightweight.) 
  • Toast the whole spices in a pan until aromatic. 
  • Let cool. 
  • Grind in a whirly spice/coffee grinder. 

I originally got it from Hanseata. She used 1 part fennel, 1 part caraway, 2 parts coriander. Toasted first, then cooled, then ground. I split the fennel into 1/2 anise, 1/2 fennel.

idaveindy's picture

Aug. 11, 2022. 98th bake.

Added some ground "chocolate rye malt."  I.E., malted rye that was roasted to a dark color and has a chocolatey almost coffee-like aroma/flavor. Purchased, as whole kernals, from a home-brewing supply store, then ground in a coffee/spice grinder.  (It's malted/roasted so it is not as hard on the grinder as raw kernals.)

Otherwise, close to the same formula as previous loaf, except I left out the ground flax/chia in the dough, and left out the seed topping. Also used all hard-white-spring-wheat for the WW instead of mostly hard-red-winter-wheat, as I was running low on the latter.

Trying real hard to wait until tomorrow before eating any.


The following was mixed together prior to kneading it into the above: 

  • 30 g 100% hyd. starter, made with bread flour. 
  • 50 g spring water. 
  • 7.0 g bread spice.*
  • 76 g whole rye flour, home milled. 
  • 20 g Gold Medal bread flour. 
  • 1/8 tsp Fleschmann's instant dry yeast. 
  • Kneaded the above, as a dough, a little bit at a time, into the soaker from 12:03 pm to 12:13 pm.

Total flour:  226 + 24 + 15 (from starter) + 76 + 20 = 361. 
% WW: 226 / 361 = 62.6%. 
% Whole grain: (226 + 24 + 76) / 361 = 326 / 361 = 90.3%. 
% white flour:  (15 + 20 ) / 361 = 35 / 361 = 9.7%. 
% regular rye flour: 76 / 361 = 21%. 
% total rye: (24 + 76) / 361 = 100 / 361 = 27.7%. 
% roasted rye malt: 24 / 361 = 6.6%.


  • 12:59 pm kneaded some. 
  •   1:59 pm kneaded some. 
  •   2:50 pm kneaded some. 
  •   4:06 pm panned in a greased and dusted (melted Crisco & durum semolina) Lodge cast iron loaf pan, 4LP. 
  • 5:13 pm covered with aluminum foil, baked in Ambiano brand toaster oven set to 400 F, (pre-heated to 450 F), oven set to use both top and bottom heating elements ("toast" mode).
  • There is a 9" round pizza stone sitting on top of the metal guards of the lower elements, but underneath (and not touching) the oven rack. The stone does not touch the heating elements. Being round, it does not cover the entire heating elements, maybe 3" of each one. This is enough to shield the bottom of the loaf pan from direct radiant heat of the lower elements. The loaf pan sits on the oven rack, a fraction of an inch above the stone. 
  • 5:30 pm rotated 180 degrees. 
  • 5:36 pm uncovered, and turned off top heat so that only bottom heat would be used, ie "bake" mode.
  • 5:47 pm turned back on top heat, so that top and bottom elements come on as needed.
  • 5:58 pm took out. Inner temp 208.5 F. Called it done. 
  • Let it cool for 2 hours. Then sealed in plastic bag.
  • Cut into it next morning. Beautiful crumb. Nice thin soft crust. Tastes good, but a hint of bitterness. Perhaps too much malt.


* Bread spice formula:  Starting out with whole dry raw seeds, by volume, 1 part anise, 1 part fennel, 2 parts caraway, 4 parts coriander. (Whole coriander is light and hollow.)  Toast the seeds in a dry (no oil) frying pan until fragrant.  Let cool.  Grind in a coffee/spice grinder. 







idaveindy's picture

Aug. 6, 2022. 97th bake. 

Oh my. This is the bread I've been looking for. 

I couldn't wait and ate a slice before taking photos. 

This is the 5th loaf in this series, (4 pan loaves, 1 boule) and I finally have it dialed in. 

  • 200 grams home-milled hard red winter wheat, whole grain.  (Stored for 14 years. Purchased and vacuum packed in 2008.) 
  • 50 grams home-milled hard white spring wheat, whole grain. Circa 2018. 
  • 6.5 g salt. 
  • 210 g water. 
  • soak for about 1 hour. 10:23am to 11:30 am.  (It was in fridge from 10:55 to 11:30.) 
  • 70 grams home-milled whole rye. Purchased 2021.  20% of 350 g total flour. 
  • this rye is kind of soft, so I felt it didn't need to go into the soaker. 
  • 7 g bread spice, weighed.  This was about 4 tsp, which is more than I usually used, but I wanted to try 2% of flour after reading that figure somewhere. 
  • 14 g mix of ground flaxseed/chia. 4% of total flour.
  • 15 g bread flour. 
  • 1/8 tsp Fleischmann instant dry yeast. Assuming 7 g yeast per 2.25 tsp.
    7 / 2.25 / 8 = .389 g.    .389 / 350 = .11 % IDY.
  •  --- the above dry ingredients (rye through yeast) were mixed together. 
  • 25 g 100% hydration starter.  12.5 / 350 = 3.5 % PFF
  • 50 g water. 
  •  --- starter was disolved in the water, then mixed with above dry ingredients at about 11:25 am. 
  • another 10 grams of water was added to the leavened part. 
  • water: 210 + 12.5 + 50 + 10 / 350 = 282.5 / 350 = 80.7 % hyd.  Maybe should account for bread spice and ground flax/chia as they absorb water too.
  • --- the soaker and the leavened part were mixed via kneading from 11:30 am to 11:40 am. 
  •  --- kneaded a bit at 12:40 pm. 
  •  --- kneaded a bit at  1:30 pm. 
  •  --- kneaded a bit at  2:20 pm. 
  •  --- at 2:30, dough was shaped and placed in oiled and dusted pan as below. (3 hour bulk ferment @ 78-80 F.)
  •  --- at 3:34, top of dough was wetted, then coated with seed mix. 
  •  --- at 3:38, pan was covered in aluminum foil and placed in toaster oven, pre-heated to 450 F, thermostat was then lowered to 400 F.  (68 min final proof @ 78-80 F.)
  •  --- at 3:57, aluminum foil cover was removed. (19 min)
  •  --- at 4:15, internal loaf temp was 188 F. Returned to oven. 
  •  --- at 4:25, internal temp was 208.7 F. Called it done. Plopped it out on paper plate and chopsticks. 47 min total bake time.
  •  --- at 5:50 pm, couldn't resist, and cut off and ate a piece. Mmmm.
  • Topping: brown sesame, black sesame, chia seeds, poppy seeds. 
  • Proofed and baked in Lodge cast iron loaf pan 4LP.  Inside coated with coconut oil and dusted with durum semolina (the gritty stuff). 

No added sugar!  No oil, except what was in ground flaxseed/chia, the topping seeds, and the oil to coat the pan.

I'll fill in more of the details from my notes later on.  

I seem to have fixed the problem of pale and weak top crust (in this toaster oven) by:

  • Fermenting less. 
  • Putting aluminum foil over the pan for the first part of the bake. 
  • Using top-heat for the covered part of the bake, and for most, but not all of the uncovered part. 
  • This made the top crust darker and firmer than the previous attempts.

This loaf is moist and tasty.  The bread spice and flax/chia in the dough make it good enough that I don't need to dip in flavored/seasoned oil at all.

There's no head-room to spare in this toaster oven, so I can't increase the height of the loaf. 350 g is the max amount of this type/mix of flour for this pan.








idaveindy's picture

Aug. 3, 2022. 96th bake. Ugly crust -- beautiful and tasty crumb.

The top crust is too flimsy, but, man-o-man, this is tasty. The discard with IDY worked a wonder.





idaveindy's picture

July 30, 2022. 95th bake.

200 g, 55.6%, home-milled hard red winter, generic. 
  45 g, 12.5%, home-milled hard white spring, Prairie Gold. 
  70 g, 19.4%, home-milled whole rye. 
           (87.5% whole grain.)
  45 g, 12.5%, Gold Medal bread flour. 
(360 g total flour. Was going for 350, but dough was too wet, so I added 10 g of bread flour. )
6.4 g salt. 
221 g spring water. + 90 g spring water. 
1/4 tsp Fleischmann instant dry yeast. 
6.3 g bread spice, toasted, then ground. Weighed after toasting and grinding. 
10.5 g mix of ground flaxseed and ground chia seed. 

Topped with a mix of raw brown sesame seeds, raw black sesame seeds, raw poppy seeds, and raw chia seeds. 

Baked in a Lodge cast iron loaf pan, (
inside coated with Crisco and dusted with durum semolina. Baked in a toaster oven, 15 minutes at 350 F, 28 minutes at 400 F. Internal temp of 207.6 when done.  It fell right out of the pan when done, no sticking at all.  

First part of bake was with bottom heating elements only -- top and bottom heating elements were used for the last 15 minutes. 

There is a 9" round pizza stone on top of the metal guards of the lower elements, but underneath (and not touching) the oven rack. The stone does not touch the heating elements. Being round, it does not cover the entire heating elements, maybe 3" of each one. This is enough to shield the bottom of the loaf pan from direct radiant heat of the lower elements. The loaf pan sits on the oven rack, a fraction of an inch above the stone.  


idaveindy's picture

July 29, 2022.  94th bake.

  • 250 g, home-milled Prairie Gold, hard white spring wheat. 
  • 50 g home-milled, generic hard red winter wheat. 
  • 3.0 g table salt + Himalayan pink salt. 
  • 3.0 g Morton Lite Salt. 
  • 242 g water. 
  • Mixed. 
  • 15 g water kneaded in. 
  • Let rest 1 hour. 
  • 35 g water kneaded in. 
  • 35 g water kneaded in. 
  • Let rest 1 hour. 
  • 50 g Gold Medal bread flour with ... 
  • 1/2 tsp instant dry yeast, kneaded in.
  • Let rest 90 minutes.
  • Kneaded in 1 tsp of bread spice, and about 2 tbsp gound flax/chia mix.
  • Let rise about an hour. I did not keep track of time.
  • Warmed a Lodge cast iron loaf pan, and coated inside with Crisco. Forgot to dust it with durum semolina. 
  • Poured/scraped very loose dough into pan. 
  • Let rise about 30 minutes. 
  • Started the pre-heat of the toaster oven to 450 F, using both top and bottom heating elements.  There is a 9" round pizza stone on top of the metal guards of the lower elements, but underneath (and not touching) the oven rack. The stone does not touch the heating elements.  Being round, it does not cover the entire heating elements, maybe 3" of each one. This is enough to shield the bottom of the loaf pan from direct radiant heat of the lower elements. The loaf pan sits on the oven rack, a fraction of an inch above the stone.
  • Added untoasted brown sesame seeds to top of loaf.
  • Let rise about another 15 minutes, until almost at top of pan. (45 minutes total for final proof.) 
  • Loaded pan in toaster oven. Lowered temp to 350 F and used only bottom heat. 
  • Baked 15 minutes. 
  • Increased temp to 400 F and baked another 20 minutes. 
  • Internal temp was only 190 F, so baked another 10 minutes. 
  • Internal temp was then 206 F. 
  • Loaf came out of pan easily.


The loaf tasted good, and the crumb was moist, soft, and even. But the top crust was a bit pale, so perhaps a bit over-proofed. The crumb was cake-like as my previous IDY pan loaf.

The flour had a lot of grit, and the grit took too long to dissolve into the dough, so I ran the remaining white wheat and red wheat flour through the Vitamix some more.  I left the rye flour as is.

The thing with using  a Vitamix to make flour, at least with the regular container/blades, is that the flour is not as uniform as a stone mill.  So it wasn't all grit, but you have to let it run long enough to reduce the size and quantity of grit particles.

idaveindy's picture

July 28, 2022.

Wow, it's been just over 6 months since I milled any wheat, and just under 6 months since I milled rye:

So, tonight I got out the Shule (a Chinese made edition of what was likely a German model) 3-roller hand crank mill.  I use it to crack the grain. 

In the first photo, at - the Shule is the pink box on the left. And it's the mill featured in the 4th photo. That page is not mine; I'm just using it as reference.  It's a low quality replica of the Italian Marcato Marga.


I cracked
- 2.5 pounds of Prairie Gold hard white spring wheat. Probably purchased around 2018.
- 2 pounds of generic hard red winter wheat. Purchased in 2008. I vacuum packed it back then, and opened it up in 2020 or 2021.
- 3 pounds of organic rye, purchased in 2021.

I then ran it through a Vitamix blender - 8 ounces at a time for the wheat, and 7 ounces at a time for the rye. 30 seconds for each 8 or 7 ounce amount.  The rye is less dense, and doesn't seem to move around the blender well enough when using 8 ounces.

I used the regular Vitamix container, not the one for dry grains.


Update, July 29, 2022. 

I made a loaf with the freshly milled flour today, mostly the white wheat with some red wheat, and thought it was a tad too gritty. So I ran both the white wheat and the red wheat through the Vitamix again.

idaveindy's picture

July 23, 2022.  93rd bake.

240 g Bob's Red Mill stone ground whole wheat.

66 g durum semolina (the gritty stuff), Swad brand from Patel Brothers.

44 g Gold Medal bread flour.

3.0 g table salt.

3.0 g Morton Lite Salt.

1 tsp Fleischmann instant dry yeast.

261 + 8 + 9 + 8 + 10 = 296 g bottled spring water.

Mixed, rested, kneaded a little, stretch and folds, kneaded.  I didn't keep track of time.  

I should have soaked the durum semolina separately in advance. The grittiness seemed to interfere with the cohesion of the dough and development of gluten.

After a while I kneaded in 3/4 tsp of regular olive oil, and 3/4 tsp of grapeseed oil.

I kind of guessed when bulk was done.

Folded/shaped into a log, and put into a Lodge cast iron loaf pan that had been greased with Crisco and dusted with durum semolina. 

Pre-heated toaster oven, and let dough proof until it was domed just slightly over the top of the pan.

This was the perfect amount of dough for this pan.

Baked at 350-375 F, for 35 to 40 minutes until the top looked done. Internal temp was 205 F.

It came out good.  Crumb was moist,  and a bit cake-like.  So it likely did need some more  kneading and/or  more pre-soak to dissolve the grit sooner, and so more gluten could then be developed.

I was too lazy to take photos.

idaveindy's picture

(This is a tangent to other low-salt discussions on TFL.

I came to Morton Lite Salt via Vitalyte, which used to be known as Gookinaid, and before that "E-R-G" which stood for "Electrolyte Replacement, with Glucose." makes a great isotonic sports drink. Nutrition info here:

When mixed according to directions, Vitalyte has, per 8 fluid ounces:

67.5 mg sodium. ( 2.93 mEq.) 
96.5 mg potassium. ( 2.47 mEq.)

11 grams carbohydrates, of which 10.5 are sugar.
45 calories.


I'm cheap and wanted a less-expensive DIY version for my hydration/sports drink, that also has less calories.

I discovered that Morton Lite salt, a combination of sodium chloride (regular salt) and potassium chloride, is close to the isotonic Vitalyte in the amount of sodium and potassium. 

From the Morton Lite Salt label, it has, per 1/4 tsp:

290 mg sodium.
350 mg potassium.

I dissolve 1/4 tsp in 1 liter of water.  1 liter is 33.8 fluid ounces.  

Using a 1/8 tsp measuring spoon makes it convenient to mix in a 1/2 liter bottle of water.

Mixed this way, Morton Lite Salt has:

290 / 33.8 = 8.58 mg sodium per fl oz.
350 / 33.8 = 10.35 mg potassium per fl oz.

Multiply by 8:

  8.58 * 8 = 68.6 mg sodium per 8 fluid ounces. ( 2.98 mEq.) 
10.35 * 8 = 82.8 mg potassium per 8 fluid ounces. ( 2.12 mEq.)


The MLS container has 311 grams of product, and the label says there are 222 servings of 1/4 tsp per container. That would be enough for 444 half-liter bottles.    Using Kroger's price of $2.99 per container, that would be .67 cents, yes, only 2/3rds of a cent, per half-liter bottle of water.

Granted, that does not include sugar or flavoring.


It's not an exact substitute, but Morton Lite Salt is available at a very reasonable price at Kroger and Walmart.

Sweeten and flavor according to your taste and calorie needs.

To get Vitalyte's amount of calories per 1/2 liter, add two tbsp of regular table sugar, 22 grams to be exact, to get 88 calories.  However, be advised that Vitalyte uses mostly glucose, and a little fructose, not table sugar (table sugar=sucrose).  Glucose, in the form of dextrose, a.k.a. corn sugar, can be obtained from beer brewing supply stores. 


Vitalyte has a small amount of magnesium and calcium. So if you want to get more exact, you could add those too, but the amount is miniscule - insignificant compared to the sodium and potassium. I'll leave the calculations to you.  


mEq, milli-equivalent, calculator:

idaveindy's picture

June 11, 2022.  92nd blogged bake.

This is Liezl Jayne's gluten-free Oats, Nuts, and Seeds bread.  It's also in the "Josey Baker Bread" book, with slightly different proportions, under the name Adventure Bread.


I made a half batch for a mini loaf pan.

Submitted to the G/F Community Bake:

Previous bakes here:

I wasn't totally satisfied with my last attempt. It was delicious, but fell apart.

A comment here on TFL mentioned that ground psyllium husks behave and measure differently than whole psyllium husks, and that less is needed.  So instead of 2.5 tbsp of whole psyllium husks, I used 2 tbsp of ground psyllium husks.

Ingredients (full batch):

  • 2 cups rolled oats (dry). I assume (and used) the thick old-fashioned variety, not the smaller quick-cook.
  • 1/2 cup flax seeds (linseed).  I assume whole, and not toasted.
  • 1/2 cup pumpkin seeds. I used dry-roasted ones.
  • 1/2 cup sunflower seeds.  This time I used roasted-in-oil, but this came out a bit too oily,  so I will use dry-roasted next time.
  • 1/2 cup raw almonds. 
  • 4 Tablespoons chia seeds.  I used whole and dry ones.
  • 5 Tablespoons psyllium husks. 
  • 2 cups water. 
  • 4 Tablespoons coconut oil (melted). 
  • 2 teaspoons xylitol syrup (or 100% pure maple syrup, or honey). 
    I used honey. 
  • 1 teaspoon fine sea salt (1/2 teaspoon coarse). 

(makes roughly 12-16 slices) 


  • mix all of the ingredients together in a bowl until well blended. 
  • grease a bread pan with additional coconut oil. 
  • pour the batter into the bread pan and smooth out the top with a back of a spoon (can dip a spoon into melted coconut oil to help smooth it out). 
  • cover the filled bread pan with a cloth and leave it to sit overnight (or for 3-10 hours). 
  • preheat your oven to 180 degree’s Celsius/ 360 Fahrenheit. 
  • place the bread pan in the oven and bake for 20 minutes. 
  • after 20 minutes remove the bread from the pan, and place it upside down on an oven tray. 
  • bake the bread for another 30-40 minutes (upside down). 
  • once the bread is baked, remove it from the oven and leave it to cool before cutting it (difficult because it smells so good, but important). 
  • once the bread has cooled, slice and serve. 
  • top with unsweetened nut butter, tahini, avocado, cashew nut cheese, eggs or any other topping of choice. 
  • eat & enjoy! 
  • once the bread has cooled fully, store in an airtight container in a cool place to keep fresh. 



After baking, internal temp 208 F.  



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