The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

religous beliefs

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yozzause's picture
yozzause

religous beliefs

As someone that likes to brew Stout and to use it in my Bread baking i would like to ask any of my fellow TFLr'S that follow the Muslim faith whether the use of  that brewed product in bread making would affect them being able to choose that to eat, remebering that all the alcohol will have been driven off during the baking process.

I ask this question only because we have students at our college that follow Islam and i just need to be aware what that community's view was on that matter, Indonesia is our closest neighbour and has the highest Muslim population, i know they use and enjoy soy sauce with their cooking and i belive that that to is a brewed product. It is also has possible implications regarding disclosure when food is being offered

king regards Yozzause    

yozzause's picture
yozzause

i have just noticed another thread on alcohol on the go at the moment and probaly could have posted this with that as it seems that i could well be relavant

yozza

tmarz's picture
tmarz

This was posted on a thread of mine... 

According to http://www.nal.usda.gov/fnic/foodcomp/Data/retn6/retn06.pdf (p.12),  5% of alcohol remains even aftersomething has been simmered for 2.5 hours!  So, what we all were taught, that a bit of flaming "burns off the alcohol" really doesn't.

  • stirred into simmering liquid and removed from heat, 85% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • flamed, 75% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 15 minutes, 40% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 30 minutes, 35% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 1 hour, 25% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 1.5 hours, 20% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 2 hours, 10% of ethyl alcohol remains
  • simmered 2.5 hours, 5% of ethyl alcohol remains

So, rule of thumb, if you have a friend who wishes to avoid all alcohol, don't serve them food cooked with it. 

If it is a baked good... It is dense and isn't baked for very long so not much of it gets cooked off at all.

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

I'll start with the obvious: I don't know enough about Islam's dietary requirements to know how the addition of an alcoholic beverage as part of the fluid in a dough would be viewed.

Second obvious point: Other than unleavened bread, the production of bread involves fermentation and fermentation produces alcohol.  Millions of Muslims eat bread every day, therefore they consume alcohol (albeit in very small amounts).  So far as I know, none try to eat so much bread as to achieve inebriation, so the consumption of the alcohol inherent in bread is more of a "can't be avoided" thing, rather than an intentional attempt to consume alcohol.

The question of using an alcoholic beverage in the making of bread, then, would seem to be whether or not it violates a stricture against drunkeness rather than being a total ban on any form of alcohol intake.  Since I don't know, I'll wait for someone who is better informed to clarify both the rule and the intent.

Paul

Mebake's picture
Mebake

True, Paul. However, As a praticing Muslim, I believe this: Anything that causes Inebriation / intoxication in excess is to be prohobited in minute quantities. Bread, however, loses most of its alcohol content during baking, which makes traces of alcohol remaining in a loaf negligible. That being said, you can be intoxicated if you eat too many bananas or mangoes or any food for that matter, the question is how much is too much?

In Islam, If you get drunk eating 1 whole boule of bread, then you are prohibited from eating a single slice. Similarily, if you consume a whole boule enriched with stout and had no apparent intoxication effects, then liquor enriched bread is permissible. However, islam urges piety, which leads most muslims to reject what is doubtful in favor of what is certain.

Therefore, Derek, i would  understand why your mulsim students may choose to decline from consuming food mixed with minute quantities of alcohol, although it may be premissible by islam.

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

I'll add, that it is very thoughtful of you to post this. Thanks, Derek!

yozzause's picture
yozzause

Thanks everyone and particularly Mebake for the insight as a practicing Muslim. Indeed the young girl in our office is from Indonesia and quite modern in outlook and does follow her beliefs although she does not cover up, but the food aspect is very important to her, and therefore to us if we are eating together.

I remember when i did my apprenticeship the bakery would often have vats of beef dripping or lard for use in bread, now with our much more cosmopolitan community and stricter labeling of product this would not be possible and indeed there is a much greater understanding of cultural differences and requirements!    

Regards Yozza