The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


txfarmer's picture

Sending this to Yeastspotting.

Index for my blog entries


First saw this formula from Shiao-Ping's blog post, which is adapted from Mariana-aga's blog post here. I stuck to the original version pretty closely but added 20% of toasted sunflower seeds for extra flavor. I was a little wary of baking an 100% rye in free form, but as long as fermentation is managed well, I can still get decent height and volume.

Noticably sour with strong rye flavor, this is a complex and delicious loaf. Very easy to make too.

I followed the original method of bulk fermenation for 2 hours, then shape and proof for 35-50min (40 for me). While some say bulk fermentation is not necessary for rye breads, I find bulk rise +shape +proof helps to redistribute the air bubbles, leading to a more even crumb.

brent123's picture

i here can oneone help me out if i add  to much of L cystiene to my dough what faults will i get in the hole process

GSnyde's picture

 Since my Danish pastry adventure last week, I’ve been keeping it simple.  Last Sunday I baked some of my San Francisco Country Sourdough (8.5% whole wheat, 6% whole rye, 40% liquid levain, 75% hydration).  I’ve reported variations on this formula before, for instance here (…and-oven).  Last week I used bread flour in the levain instead of all purpose, to get a bit chewier crumb.

It rose mightily and had good oven spring.  And the crumb was a bit denser than usual due to the higher-protein flour in the levain.  It had a nice,  mildly sour flavor.

Then today, I baked Maggie Glezer’s “My Challah”, with shaping assistance from my live-in semi-professional braiding advisor.

We did have a wide variety of previously frozen baked goods this weekend.  Brother David and his wife Susan were visiting, and we had some baguettes and some Tartine BCB and some of the gooey delicious Pecan Rolls I baked last week.  I heard no complaints (not that I was listening).

I also understand that David and Susan stopped for lunch today at Della Fattoria in Petaluma on their way back to Fresno.  Perhaps we’ll get a report on that nearly legendary bakery (maybe there are legends about it; I’ve just never heard them).

In addition to good eating, we enjoyed the cool North Coast weather and our late Summer garden, with its multi-colored Heathers.


SylviaH's picture

I've just returned from my first visit to Aspen, CO.  

I went with my daughter to visit the new vacation home, she's been busy decorating.

She showed me all over Aspen, wined and dined me day and night.  It was an amazing week, I came home with the 'Rocky Mountain Highs".

The weather, town, new home and food were all so beautiful!  And, we missed 'The Blackout"...


Feeling a little guilty, I baked the boys some sourdough bread before I left...'Robbie, my grandson requested 'sourdough'!

Basic white sourdough at 100% hydration levain, 65% total hydration

Crumb shot : ) have to have one of those : )

Oh yes, and how about a cracked crust..enhanced by a 'Bold Bake' and face first, gringe, drop on the floor :-/


                  And now for the really fun part.  "My, Rocky Mountain High"

      The day before leaving, I came down with a very sore throat, to say the least..something my husband said was going around at his workplace and even my girlfriend in Vegas confirmed she had too!  So, I started my antibiotics along with the advice of my daughter to be sure and consume plenty, plenty of water before going from my sea level altitude to 7000ft and above altitude.


Short rainshowers most afternoons.


Main Street Bakery      One of our morning stops for breakfast or brunch.  There's one other bakery we like even better..usually packed to the door, both of them.  Sorry, didn't get photos of the other local's bakery and lunch cafe..they close at about 3 in the afternoons.

They serve delicious breakfast, lunches and pastries.


I loved this beautiful large old home across the street from the Main Street Bakery!  Mandy said it was for sale for I think she said 14 million... it had offers, but no sale.  Years and years was this old mining town's mortuary!  It did look kind of haunted, especially face on and up close!

Not far away, another Victorian, this one, a charming bookstore, with an 'Organic Resturant' included in back, upper level.

Up the mountain to a lovely lunch of fresh trout. 


Yep!  That's me, biking around the's gorgeous, full of Victorians, that look like gingerbread houses.

In front of Jack N. home. I thought it was a little creepy looking.. :)  Lance A. home around the corner. 


There's lot's of black bears in the neighborhood, just waiting to get into your food and garbage..garbage cans have locks!


Last evening in Aspen.  Dinner of whole Dover Sole and fine wines.  Before dinner they bring plenty of bread, appetizers and parmesian from a hugh wedge brought to your table.  Resturant is at the foot of the ski lift.


                                                               Just for fun!

                                     Earlier this summer... grandson, friend, grand daughter, youngest grandson, daughter and instructor.



                                 "Planking"     friend and instructor ..... granddaughter laughing her off ... two grandson's and my daughter.





            Back from the Rocky Mountain High and to baking :-) Sylvia









wassisname's picture

I considered throwing this idea out there as a hypothetical but never got around to it.  So, I went with my preferred method: bake first, ask questions later.  The question that led to this formula went something like this:  Instead of adding yeast to a rye sourdough, as so many book formulas do, what would happen if I added some whole wheat starter? 

The hope is that the vigorous population of yeast in the wheat starter would compensate for the possibly not-so-reliable leavening power of the well-fermented rye starter.  Sounds plausible enough, even if it turns out not to be true.  It sounded even better when I thought of it as something like a multi-stage rye, but with the two stages happening concurrently rather than consecutively.  Yes, a little knowledge is indeed a dangerous thing, but I decided to try it anyway.

Since my "scientific" baking experiment lacks even the pretense of a control bread I am left with not much to say regarding  the relative merits of this method vs. any other method... hmmm... awkward.  I'll just go ahead and describe the bread. 

The dough was a sticky mess.  The final hydration was probably 80% or better because of all the water I had to use to keep the dough from sticking to everything.  The dough fermented really quickly.  It rose so fast during both stages that I cut them short.  Even so, there was only the slightest oven spring, and the finished bread was very dense.  When I cut the bread about 4 hrs out of the oven the crumb was still a bit tacky, but not terrible.  The next day, however, the crumb had finally set and the result was very nice.  This is one of those breads that needs 24 hrs to sort itself out.  The flavor was delicious (maybe a little heavy on the coriander).  The crumb was dense but moist and soft - not gummy at all.  48 hrs later it was still every bit as good.  Overall I am pleasantly surprised.  This turned out to be one of the nicer "heavy" rye breads I've baked.

Thoughts for next time:  Let the rye starter ferment longer - I don't think I let it go long enough this time to really test the method.  Shorten either the bulk ferment or the proof (or both?) and see if I can get some oven spring.  See if I can get any more gluten development during kneading.  Any other thoughts are more than welcome :)


Schrödinger's Other Cat's picture
Schrödinger's O...

When I was young fresh fruit was a great treat and not common in Icelandic diet. Today fresh fruit of many sorts is readily available year round allowing one to bake galette year round!


1 cup flour (125-130g)

4 oz. cold butter unsalted (113g) 

pinch salt (or more if you like)

ice water (30-50ml, enough to make pastry workable)

Finely cut cold butter into flour, add salt. Work with spoon or hand until well mixed. Add ice water until pastry can be formed into a ball. Refrigerate for a bit (15 minute). Press pastry into a disk on parchment or Silpat then roll out very thin (thin=flaky). Refrigerate again (cold pastry I find much easier to work) while you make filling of choice.

Apple Filling:

2 or 3 apple peeled and sliced thin

2T sugar, 1T flour, cinnamon to taste mixed.

1T  butter

1T sugar, sprinkle cinnamon

Spread flour/sugar/cinnamon mixture over pastry. Lay apple slices to overlap in circle pattern. Fold edge of pastry over. Sprinkle sugar and cinnamon over apple, chop butter over apple. Refrigerate 10 minutes.

Cook at 204C or 400F for 50-minutes to 1 hour.

Glaze with 1 or 2 T (to taste) apricot, peach preserve.


Make coffee, pour brandy, consume!




brent123's picture

can someone help me out here if i was to make a loaf off bread and didnt add no ascorbic to the mixs can someone explaining why the ingredient or the proess has caused the fault




Chausiubao's picture

This time last week I had just started a new responsibility. Having been in Colorado a solid week and a half and started working at an old bakery in an institution of a hotel I came to find my days off horribly split across the weekend. Friday and Sunday off? What would happen, pray tell, to my Saturday? Fortune has turned her most beautiful face my way and I came to find that I would have two days off, in a row no less! It was simply cause for celebration. That being said, I decided to bake bread. Having accumulated some of the essentials of the kitchen, however not all the essentials as you will see in my ingredient list, I put myself to work fashioning a loaf of bread. I deliberated at length in whether to enrich the dough or not, it was a question of dairy and sugar or none. But my vacillation was easily concluded at the discovery of a lack of butter in the apartment, so I soldiered on and went about designing a straight dough, mixed directly! At upwards of six thousand feet above sea level I'd been told there was a need to increase hydration, decrease leavener, and decrease baking temperature in order to avoid overproofing and the consequence therein, collapse of the dough. Was I surprised that temperature, leavener, and hydration all seemed to work out without a hint of adjustment? Why sure I was! But not unfortunately so. I said to myself it was better to not complicate matters and risk confusing myself. So with a firm nod to my good fortune I finished my mostly unnecessary calculations and went about scaling my ingredients. Both the flour and the air temperature in the apartment was ~75 F! It was quite amazing. Using 69 F water that brought me to a dough temperature of 74 F, so it would make sense that I can start a new base temperature for this recipe at 220 F. From this air and flour temperature can be subtracted until I arrive at my desired water temperature! It was to be glorious.


But if I may step out in audacity for just a few minutes, it is clear to me that the dough was most likely undermixed, overproofed, or some other problem. The opening on top was certainly just a little too small. Alternatively the sides of the loaf were nice and tell. In the middle of the bulk fermentation it got a bit of a fold and I did pull a decent window after the mix. So I will conclude that the dough was overproofed with a dough temperature and air temperature approximately 75 F, and a proof time of 90 minutes. Next time I do this, all conditions remaining about the same it may be beneficial to reduce the final proof time. I will bring this gushing, somewhat bubbly exposition to a close with a simple statement; there is nothing more satisfying, then taking a loaf of bread out of the oven and hearing it sing to you in its own crackly way. The end.

inkedbaker's picture

makes a 1 1/2 pound loaf(680g)

1 cup sourdough starter

1 1/2 teaspoons sea salt

1 tablespoon sugar

1 cup milk

1 tablespoon melted butter

1 1/2 cups whole wheat flour

2 cups unbleached all purpose flour

pour starter into mixer mixing bowl, add salt, sugar, milk, and butter to the starter and mix well with flat beater attachment. Switch to dough hook.  Add whole wheat flour and mix well. Add all purpose flour 1 cup at a time, finish adding flour on lightly floured board. Knead until smooth and satiny roughly 15 minutes. Proof dough overnight at room temperature in a lightly greased bowl, covered with plastic wrap. Allow dough to double, 8 to 12 hours. When dough has doubled, gently ease ball onto lightly floured surface. Let rest for 30 minutes. If flattening occurs, knead in extra flour before shaping. After 30 minute rest, shape the dough into a ball. Place in well floured brotform and cover and allow to proof, 2 to 4 hours at room temperature. Preheat La Cloche in oven at 500 degrees fahrenheit. Remove dough from brotform and cut an x in the top of the loaf at a 45 degree angle roughly 1/2 inch deep. Place loaf in La Cloche and bake for 20 minutes. Remove La Cloche cover reduce oven temperature to 400 degrees fahrenheit and bake an additional 15 to 20 minutes until loaf is dark brown and a temperature of 205 to 210 degrees fahrenheit is reached when using a thermometer inserted into center of loaf. Allow to cool completely on cooling rack.


I used a whole wheat sourdough starter for this recipe, but any starter will work just fine as long as it's VERY active. 

inkedbaker's picture

playing with my new favorite flour, very nutty tasting flour, makes fantastic bread loaves.


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