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Jeff P's picture
Jeff P

I had the day off yesterday, and decided it would be a good day for baking! I even got a new scale, and was very excited to try it out!

I decided to try out the basic recipe listed on the site here. I was hoping it would yield a decent loaf that I could then add to in the future for more variety.

Ingredients:

3 cups flour
2 teaspoons salt
2 teaspoons yeast
1 1/8 cup water

 

Mixed the flour and water first, and let it sit for about 10 minutes. Added the other ingredients, and kneaded for about 10 minutes, then set it to rise for about 90 minutes.

Got pretty good rise out of this, and didn't have to do much shaping, but I think I may have punched down a bit too much (check later photos).

The second rise went well, but the dough lost a lot of volume when I scored it. It puffed up well in the oven, though. I preheated to 450, and had a small pan for water heating with it. When I put the dough in, I added about 2 cups of water to the pan to steam it, then dropped the temperature to 375.

The end result:

 

Overall, this was a fairly easy process. However, there were some issues with the final loaf, and I'm not sure how to correct them for the future.

1. While the crust was good and the crumb seemed alright at first cut (see above). The flavor, however, was quite salty. Not sure if this was due to the salt content at the start, or some problem with the yeast.

2. I noticed that there was a lot of inconsistency in the crumb after making a few more cuts.

Most of the loaf appears to have baked normally, but there are sections like this that appear underbaked. I'm thinking about baking at a higher temperature next time to see if that fixes the issue. It may be that the boule shape made it so that the temperature wasn't high enough to properly bake the inside.

So, overall, not the outcome I was hoping for, but not terrible either. I'm going to try a bit less salt next time, more careful handling/scoring at the end of the process before baking, and baking at a higher temperature to see how that impacts the results.

If anyone has any insights or recommendations, I would be grateful for some guidance. 

Until next time, Bake On!

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Oval banneton, 10x6x4, with liner:

https://amazon.com/inch-Premium-Banneton-Basket-Liner/dp/B06XJ698WV?tag=froglallabout-20

Oval banneton, 11", with liner:

https://amazon.com/Agile-shop-Banneton-Brotform-Proofing-Handmade/dp/B01HXTLDH4?tag=froglallabout-20

Round banneton, 11.8", with liner:

https://amazon.com/Agile-Shop-Banneton-Brotform-Proofing-Handmade/dp/B01FXA5K3S?tag=froglallabout-20

---

Round banneton, 12", Brick Oven Baker: 

https://amazon.com/BrickOvenBaker-12-inch-Banneton-Proofing-Basket/dp/B01B9UEP3W?tag=froglallabout-20

Oval, high, 10", Brick Oven Baker:

https://amazon.com/BrickOvenBaker-10-inch-Banneton-Proofing-Basket/dp/B01B9UELCM?tag=froglallabout-20

---

80+ types of flour at General Mills:  https://www.generalmillscf.com/products/category/flour

Of note to bread and pizza bakers:

See right side for form to locate a distributor based on zip code.

---

To get more tang, and lactic vs acetic:

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/62064/want-more-sour

https://truesourdough.com/best-temperature-for-proofing-sourdough-full-guide-how-to/

https://truesourdough.com/18-ways-to-make-sourdough-bread-more-or-less-sour/

 

 

agres's picture
agres

I have romantic notions about pain de compagnon feeding agricultural crews. My grandfather was a farmer, and his dinner table routinely fed a dozen workers. There were usually about 4 - loaves of bread on the table, each weighing a pound. As a young man, I worked wheat harvest crews, but by then we used “combines “and there was less physical labor, but my mother insisted that I show my wife how to scythe, shock, flail, and winnow rye. That is real work, that brings one to the dinner table hungry. I always liked the idea of one, big, hearty loaf that would feed a dozen hungry workers.

[Poilâne’s] signature item is a four-pound miche, a wheel of sourdough—also known as country bread, pain Poilâne, and pain au levain—made from Pierre’s original starter, stone-ground gray flour, water, and sea salt from the marshes of Guérande. ....(https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/12/03/bread-winner) This hearkens back to my romantic notions of feeding a harvest crew, but it raises 2 questions;

1)    Why are all the recipes for “Poilâne style” bread for small (1.5 lb.) loaves?

2)    Why does Poilâne use bolted flour?

Real workers need strength, and the bran in wheat can be a MAJOR contributor to building real strength. Even if they are selling to rich ladies, who will never do a days labor in their lives, eating whole wheat bread as an adolescent will result in healthy bones that are less likely to break in old age.  Thus, Poilâne’s traditional bread is a compromise of the traditional hearty French breads that fed (and strengthened) workers
 and - a baguette. The purpose of the compromise is marketing. 

Recipes for “Poilâne style” bread aid in that marketing. Those recipes do not result in bread that is just like Poilâne’s, and thereby add to the mystic and market brand of Poilâne.

Today, I doubt if you can produce an exact duplicate of Poilâne’s loaves. However, I think that if you focus on producing the best bread possible, you will be able to produce the best bread for your menu. Poilâne does not produce bread for your menu – they produce bread for a mass market, and expect you, to adapt your menu to a mass marketed product.

A week ago, I would have said that the only path to Poilâne style loaf was high extraction flour with significant amounts of spelt. That was/is the conventional wisdom. Today, I would say that a similar bread can be produced from whole wheat and intelligent use of sourdough. Today, I assert that Poilâne’s use of high extraction flour and spelt is to facilitate high speed / low cost production (and for marketing.)

I am not against Poilâne; I am for people baking bread that is well suited for their menu. To this end, I assert that one of the glories of Poilâne’s loaves is their crust. A two-kilo miche has a crust that cannot be duplicated on smaller loaves. If you want that crust, you need to bake big bread.  A recipe that intends to produce a one-kilo loaf will not result in the texture and flavor typical of a larger loaf.

In 2012, we went to Europe, and I put a good deal of effort into visiting bakers and tasting bread. The 2-kilo miche that was on our lunch table today, was better than any bread that I had in Europe. It can be done with a household oven. And, I did not use a mixer for that miche, it was made by hand, and it was not noticeable more effort than making a kilo loaf.  It cost me a couple of dollars for wheat berries, a couple of cents for salt,  ~ 75 cents for electric power, and 40 minutes of my time including cleanup. The only downside is that we have a lot of bread sitting on the kitchen counter. Like any of Poilâne’s American customers, I am going to freeze some bread.

 

Benito's picture
Benito

I’ve been wanting to do a fruit and nut sourdough for sometime and decided my first bake of the year would be that time.  I’ve made raisin walnut commercially yeasted bread in the past so wanted to do something different, so chose cranberry walnut.  I started out thinking that would be follow Maurizio’s cranberry walnut sourdough recipe, but then got intimadated by his 88% hydration and also wanted to try lamination again.  So I sort os used his beginner sourdough recipe 78% hydration and added 10% dried cranberries and 10% lightly toasted walnuts.  Then I essentially followed Full Proof Baking Kristen’s methods that we used for the open crumb CB.  I thought that this would be a perfect way of introducing the nuts and fruit during lamination and I think it worked out alright.

This was also the first time I used my Proofing Box and I’m glad that I now have one given the cold temperatures of winter in Toronto.  I’m not sure I should be surprised but bulk fermentation went a bit more slowly than I expected.  I hope I judged fermentation well and didn’t greatly underproof the dough.  I guess I will know tomorrow when I cut into the loaf.  One other thing, in my haste to score the dough, I made the incision in too vertical a plane instead of a good angle so the ear isn’t as good as I would have liked.

 

BreadBeckers's picture
BreadBeckers

Mixers returned to us, inspected, brand new and unused. Just the box has been opened. Limited quantities and colors. $550 PLUS shipping (no shipping if you come to our retail store). Price good while supplies last!

theo's picture
theo

This is the results of Forkish's Overnight white bread

The directions state dough requires 12-14 hours bulk fermentation with a temp between 76ºF and 78ºF.

 

DOUGH STATISTICS

\

DOUGH FORMULA

PRE MIX

MIX COMPLETED

AUTOLYSE COMPLETED

BEFORE KNEADING (ADD SALT)

KNEADING COMPLETED

COMPLETED BAKE


SOUNDS OF BREAD

 

sounds of bread from on Vimeo.

CRUMB

DELAYED GRATIFICATION

COMMENTS

  • A couple of hours during bulk fermentation i noticed my dough rising too fast.  I rechecked my calculations and realized I added 10 x more yeast than required. I needed 0.4 g and not 4 grams. I was about to discard the bake but decided to see it through.  To retard my yeast I stored dough in the refrigerator. I watched it rise to the desired level. About 7 hours
  • The bake came out excellent.  The crust was perfectly crunchy.
  • Also, Im happy I was able to reach my desired dough temp
  • Next time i will bake it a little longer to get a darker crust. Of course most importantly use the correct amount of ingredients

 

 

Elsie_iu's picture
Elsie_iu

I have a sudden fondness for coffee flavored baked goods lately. Nowadays, people pair cheese with not only wine and beer, but also coffee. Since wine, beer and coffee bread already exists, there’s no reason not to upgrade it by adding cheese, right? :)  

 

 

Coffee Provolone Piccante SD with 30% Sprouted Black Quinoa

 

 

Dough flour

Final Dough

Levain

Total Dough

 

g

%

g

%

g

%

g

%

Flour (All Freshly Milled)

300

100

272

100

28

100

304.5

100

Sprouted Black Quinoa Flour

90

30

 

 

 

 

90

29.56

Whole Blue Emmer Flour

60

20

 

 

 

 

60

19.70

Whole Red Wheat Flour

150

50

 

 

 

 

150

49.26

White Whole Wheat Flour (Starter)

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.25

0.74

Whole Rye Flour (Starter)

 

 

 

 

 

 

2.25

0.74

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration

 

 

 

 

32.5

100

262.5

96.06

Water

 

 

230

84.56

28

100

262.5

86.21

Coffee concentrate

 

 

30

11.03

 

 

30

9.85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

4

1.33

4

1.47

 

 

4

1.31

Vital Wheat Gluten

9

3

9

3.31

 

 

9

2.96

Starter (100% hydration)

 

 

 

 

9

32.14

 

 

Levain

 

 

65

23.90

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Add-ins

66

22

66

24.26

 

 

66

21.67

Provolone Piccante

60

20

60

22.06

 

 

60

19.7

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coffee Concentrate

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Coarse Grind Coffee (I used a Mexican Arabica variety)

6

2

6

2.21

 

 

6

1.97

Hot Water

30

10

30

11.03

 

 

30

9.85

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total

 

 

646 

237.5 

65 

232.14

646 

212.15

 

Sift out the bran from dough flour, reserve 28 g for the leaven. Soak the rest, if any, in equal amount of water taken from dough ingredients. 


Combine all leaven ingredients and let sit until ready, about 5 hours (24°C).

Make the coffee concentrate by brewing the coarse grind coffee in the hot water. After 5 minutes, filter the solution and discard the residue. Keep refrigerated until needed.  

Roughly combine all dough ingredients except for the cheese. Ferment for a total of 4 hours. Construct 2 rounds of 3 minute Rubaud mixing at the 30 and 40 minute mark. Fold in the cheese by a set of lamination at the 50 minute mark. Shape the dough then put in into a banneton directly. Retard for 9 hours.

Preheat the oven at 250°C/482°F. Score and spritz the dough then bake straight from the fridge at 250°C/482°F with steam for 20 minutes then without steam for 25 minutes more or until the internal temperature reaches a minimum of 208°F. Let it cool for a minimum of 2 hours before slicing.

 

 

This loaf has a moderately open crumb. Its crust is particularly thin and crispy because of the milk fat. The cheese also gives the crumb a pleasantly chewy mouthfeel. 

 

Err isn't this kind of scary looking...? 

 

The coffee flavor is rather subtle in this bread. It acts as a complement to the quinoa, intensifying its nuttiness. The savory taste of provolone, sweetness of grains and sourness of coffee & SD contribute to a well-rounded sensory profile. 

 

_____

 

 

Korean Gochujang stir fried chueng fun with tuna & Blue Stilton

 

Garlicky capellini with brussel sprouts, mushrooms and shrimps

 

Pork, water chestnut & scallion dumplings in seaweed Jinhua ham broth

 

Scallion & Provolone pancakes with tuna cream cheese

 

Greek moussaka x Italian lasagna (pressure cooked pulled lamb in spiced tomato sauce, noodle sheets, sliced eggplants & cream cheese)

 

Homemade pork sausage in porcini mushroom gravy, with sautéed brussel sprouts and Pecorino masa “polenta”

 

Thai yellow chicken curry, glass noodles with shrimp oil, caramelized kabocha squash, tomatoes & scallops, shrimp paste sautéed assorted mushrooms and cabbages, and plain steamed Thai rice

 

Scallion white, garlic, sesame, seaweed & Provolone pizza with a wasabi honey glaze (SD scallion green crust)

 

tortie-tabby's picture
tortie-tabby

Started making sourdough after reviving some starter a friend gave me.

First attempt, didn't really follow a recipe so who knows what happened. Was still really happy with it. Wasn't used to the fact that sourdough dough would be so slack and only become more slack over time as the proteolytic enzymes did their thing. Supplemented the dough with 1/4 tsp instant yeast and made the dough really high hydration, which definitely didn't help. Still came out well, best tasting bread I've ever made at that point. A little more sour than I would've liked because I was being cheap and didn't want to feed the starter too much.

 

Second round. Loosely followed some recipes I read, including the San Joaquin Sourdough. Turned out delicious! Best bread I've made yet.

Starter 120 g
AP Flour 410 g
Rye 30 g (5.5 %)
Yeast 1/8 tsp
Salt 10 g
Water 300 g (72% hydration)

1. Roughly 30 min autolyse
2. 100 french folds
3. 2 rounds of S&F with 30 folds per round, spaced at 30 minute interval
4. Total of 90 minute bulk ferment, dough didn't double much or grow (not sure if was is an issue)
5. 20 hour cold ferment
6. Let come to room temp for 2 hours (since it didn't grow much or develop many air pockets in the fridge)
7. Preheat oven to 500 ˚F, prepare two pans for steam
8. Shape then final proof for an hour. I didn't think the loaf would have much spring because it was so slack with few air bubbles. Dough would spring back really quickly during the poke test but stop springing back just before the hole was completely filled, decided to go ahead and bake.
9. Add 1 cup boiling water to one pan and close the oven door. Score bread and load into baking stone using parchment paper. Add second cup boiling water to the second pan. Bake at 500 ˚F for 23 minutes. Cool in oven with door cracked for 10 minutes.

agres's picture
agres

This is the best 100% whole wheat bread that does not have any milk or fat added that my wife and I have ever eaten.

Yesterday, we finished off Monday’s bake with lunch, so I wanted to bake today.

About 2 pm, I put 3 or 4 oz of starter from the frig. into the stand mixer with 100 ml of water, and turned it on. I added ww flour (5% rye, 10% spelt, 10% Kamut, 75% hard red winter wheat, fresh ground) until I had a soft dough. I set the hook into the bottom of the kettle, put a lid on it, and left it until early evening. The kitchen was ~65 F. Then, I added 200 ml more water, turned the mixer on and added ww flour until I had a soft dough. I set the hook into the bottom of the kettle, put a lid on it, and left it until early morning. (Kitchen was ~ 60F) I added 300 ml water and 12 gr of salt, and turned the mixer on and slowly added ww flour, until I had a medium dough, let it sit for 30 minutes, and then mixed until it was well developed and smooth. I washed the hook, and let the dough rise in the kettle with a lid on it for about an hour. I turned the dough out on the floured bench, rounded it up and let it sit covered for ~30 minutes. I shaped the loaf, and let it rise in a lined basket for about 90 minutes, then baked it on a stone at 415 F convection for 15 minutes, brushed it with water, reduced the oven temp to 375F convection for another 15 minutes, then let it finish at 325F convection for 5 minutes.

It is upside-down because instead of working from flour measurements, it works from volumes of water. It is moist and tender because it gets a long fermentation (without salt, so the fermentation goes FAST!  And, the hydration is correct.  When working from baker’s percentages with fresh-ground grain mixes, it is difficult to get hydration correct. Only a “Troll” would advocate for skill with baker’s percentages, and then work backwards from water to flour. Only an “Old One” would get it correct.

This is the Old School Pain de Campagne that I have been seeking for 50 years.  This tells me that the traditional “Staff of Life” sometimes included better bread than modern people are ever likely to eat. At this point, I am confused and speechless.

 

alfanso's picture
alfanso

On the levain feeding side of life: My 100% hydration AP levain was last fed on 08 Dec.  After two feedings yesterday, 07 Jan, it was quite happy again.  Posting these last two sentences to disseminate the knowledge that a well developed 100% AP levain in the back of the refrigerator can sustain a full month, at the least, without being fed, and spring back to life in a pair of feedings.

Our friend, who'd sampled a fair amount of my breads before, was joining us for lunch yesterday.  But she'd never had my ciabatta.

Yes, I've posted this before, as both an AP Biga and AP levain, as well as a levain tritordeum version.  This mod is minor, but brings me back to the more basic FWS combo.  A place where I most prefer to reside.  Mr. MeGee’s version uses olive oil, and in that regard I’d been true - until now. Here it is simply a levain FWS bread with a very minor boost of IDY, y nada más.

My feeling was that the olive oil was coating the gluten strands making then slick and therefore might be inhibiting their structural growth, and also causing a minor increase in mixing time which, with an old KA dough hook mixer, is too long to begin with.

Once more, here is the formula at 1500g.  I removed the olive oil and added that amount to the bassinge and the hydration is now 79%.

Ciabatta w/ 125% Levain @79% Hydration       
Scott MeGee, alfanso        
500g  will yield 3" diameter loaves - small        
     Total Flour    
 Total Dough Weight (g) 1500 Prefermented20.00%   
 Total Formula   Levain  Final Dough 
 Ingredients%Grams %Grams IngredientsGrams
 Total Flour100.00%827.4 100.00%  Final Flour661.9
 AP Flour100.00%827.4 100%165.5 AP Flour661.9
 Water (cold in final dough)76.00%628.8 125%206.8 Water cold337.6
        bassinage84.4
 Olive Oil3.00%24.8    Olive Oil24.8
 Salt2.10%17.4    Salt17.4
 IDY0.20%1.7 0.00%0.00 IDY1.7
        Levain COLD372.3
 Totals181.30%1500 225.00%372.31  1500
          
          
KA mixer: "1",  “2” & "6" to incorporate, 2nd hydration @ "4"to add, “6” to mix, “8” to finish. 
          
Whisk IDY and COLD levain in COLD water, then add flour.  Mix on "1" until water is taken up,  "2" until shaggy.  Pinch and fold.
Cover and "autolyse" for 20-30 minutes       
Remove dough from mixer,  ~50 French Folds, 5 min rest, 50 FFs.     
Back to mixer: bassinage of COLD water, salt and olive oil ADD VERY SLOWLY - mixer on "4", then "6" & "8" to finish.
Mix done with slapping sound, and dough pulling off bowl onto hook, then dropping back to bowl again. 
          
bulk proof - 2 hr., 3 folds - 0, 40, 80.  40 minute final rest      
scale at (ex.) 500g, no pre-shape, couche seam side up      
40 min final proof        
Roll and stretch dough as it goes to baking peel       
Preheat @480dF        
Bake w/ steam @460dF, ~13 min, another ~15 min, then vent      
          
Notes:         
o If flour scaled separately from water & levain, IDY can be incorporated into flour.    
o Shift speed in mixer back & forth to accommodate activity needed, i.e. addition of the bassinage, but end with speed of "8".
o First Letter Fold is right out of the mixer and is "aggressive".  Second and third are succedingly much more gentle.
o Dough is quite sticky, so flour the bench well.       
o Couche takes a pretty fair amount of flour, the oven peel (with parchment paper) takes none.  
o Shaping into a "barrel" and apply light pressure when tightening the skin of the dough - don't overdo or overthink
o Couche seam side up        
o Transfer from couche to peel.  Gently roll loaf over on couche, "scoop up" from ends, gently stretch to length and onto peel
o There is a lot of moisture in the dough so it takes a longer bake than one may think.  One reason why the coloration is dark.

~500g x 3 ciabatta loaves

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