The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


leslieruf's picture

A question to those of you out there doing this - dabrownman, Danni and any others.  How exactly do you do this?

Do you mill the flour required for the bake, sift out the bran then use bran instead of flour for 1st build, sieved flour for remainder

 or do you just mill some random amount of flour, sieve the bran out then take from these two fractions whatever you need you need for the levain part of the bake?

My last bake was so small and I tried adding bran to the levain.  I only made a small loaf so there was not much to play with.  I would like to try again but for a bigger loaf so want to understand process better first.




PalwithnoovenP's picture

Sourdough: sweet or sour, I like it but each have its own place where it shines and complements whatever it was paired with. A pairing that is greater than the sum of its parts; the bread and its pair become exponentially more delicious that if one was to eat each one separately and alone. I was focused for a long time in baking mild sourdoughs because my parents do not like sour breads and I haven't met anyone with a greater or at least the same "Sour Threshold" as mine. My sourest loaf for them is still mild for me and for my favorite combination a super sour bread is the order for the best experience.

Recently, I was inspired by Lechem with a post on A lesson in bringing out the tang but I took it to the extreme with my wild style. There are a lot of techniques for getting a more sour bread like manipulating time and temperature and altering the flour and liquid makeup of the bread including Uncle Dab's bran levain and bran water as liquid in the levain originally done and explored by Doc.Dough but finding whole grains in my area is still a hit and miss for me so all of the tang of this bread was coaxed from all white flour. I decided to preferment a greater quantity of flour as said by Hamelman and ferment it cold and slow. 

I also took a page from Abel's book; that is the super levain which is super enlightening since that prefermented flour considered an insane amount by conventional knowledge appears to have no ill effects on the dough. I bake with a lot of uncommon ingredients especially for those who grew up in the bread baking world but sometimes my purist side as a baker comes through occasionally wanting to make bread using only flour, water, yeast and salt. I don't want this bread to be one dimensional sour but have a complex taste with the tang taking center stage. I also want the tang profile to be 2/5 acetic acid and 3/5 lactic acid or a 40/60 acetic-lactic acid ratio. Here's what I did based on different sources and my own experiences.

My starter has been retarded for 3 months already but no matter how long it stays there; once I feed it, it loses its tang. My tangiest loaf used a levain built in 2 stages 12 hours each; tangy for sure but I want a bit more so from that I modified the process a bit. 66% of the flour was prefermented in 3 builds with each build almost doubling the amount of flour and the final build retarded in the fridge for 3 full days, I mean 72 hours. In my case, instead of doing a single "big build" with the same amount of prefermented flour that will make my starter lose more of its potential tang, I think the secret is to let the final acid build-up get to the maximum in each build for getting that sour flavor to the maximum too.

Here is the levain after 3 days in the fridge. I used bread flour from the very beginning since it is better for long and in this case very long fermentation. It was very firm before fermentation but its now sticky with a wonderful whole structure. The smell was very sour enough to trigger a sensation at the back of my mouth. I used it directly from the fridge since things come to room temperature here quite fast. 

Given the sticky nature of the huge amount of prefermented flour and some gluten degrading, I used very little water for the final dough just enough to let it come together as a dough with the additional bread flour. I made a 30 minute autolyse at room temperature before adding the salt. I decided to go the dabrownman and alfanso route and gave the dough 300 slap and folds (with one hand since the dough is small enough) then 3 sets of stretch and folds 20 minutes apart. In fear of overfermentation, I refrigerated the dough after the second stretch and fold (after 40 minutes at room temp.) the complete the final one when dough is cold.

I gave it a preshape at night then into the fridge again until the following morning for the final shaping and proofing.

I shaped it directly from the fridge and to keep it from spreading because I was afraid of the vigorous microbial and enzymatic activities, I proofed it in a container taller than it is wide. Because of being overly careful about the fermentation time I made a huge mistake!

When I pressed it after 2 hours at room temp. I felt it was very soft and giving in without much resistance. I immediately fired up the clay pot and when it was ready and I turned the dough onto a banana leaf, boy it was way underproofed! It quickly springs back when pressed, not wanting to waste the fire, I slashed the dough and proceeded to bake it anyway.

The smell was very sour and vinegary before baking. Never have I encountered such thing with all of my sourdoughs. I baked it for a long time so long that I cannot remember. I also used embers for the most part because the pebbles packs a lot of heat.

Crust evenly browned with a few very boldly baked spots and full of blisters.

Crumb definitely underproofed to me but not underfermented. :)

My conlusions:

1. This bread can take slightly more water for an even softer crumb and better handling qualities.

2.  I can afford a little more fermentation time both during bulk and the final proof with no ill effects. I was surprised how strong the dough felt given the activities in the dough.

3. I can still up the prefermented flour.

In case you want to try this method. Here is a timeline of what I did:

66% of the flour was prefermented. Divide this amount into 12. (I am not very good in math so I will not write in simplest form to avoid confusion). You can do this at any hydration (this is closer to 62-65%) you wish and make your own adjustments especially with the timings.

23:45 W- Refreshment Build- Inoculate 1/12 of the flour with a teaspoon of stock starter. Knead with enough water to achieve a firm consistency.
11:45 Th- Intermediate Build- All of the refreshment build plus 3/12 of the flour and enough water to yield a firm dough.
23:45 Th- Souring Build- All of the intermediate build plus the remaining (8/12) flour and enough water to make a firm dough.
08:00 F- Retard the final build for 72 hours.
08:00 M- Add the remaining (34% of total) flour and remaining water. Autolyse for 30 minutes.
08:30 M-  Add the salt (perhaps it can take as high as 2.5%) and mix it in. Give 300 slap and folds.
09:00 M- Stretch and fold at 20 minute intervals.
09:40 M- Refrigerate final dough.
10:00 M- Give final stretch and fold and refrigerate again.
20:00 M- Preshape and refrigerate again.
10:00 T- Final shaping and proof for 2 hours in a cloth lined container dusted with cornstarch.
12:00 T- Turn onto a banana leaf, bake then cool completely before slicing.

Crust was crunchy but became a bit chewy after cooling. Crumb was soft like it was made with AP even though made with BF and was underfproofed. Very fragrant of banana leaves with a deeply caramelized aroma and notes of vinegar. Taste was complex, wheaty but with no perceived sweetness. The tang really came through; very very tangy with the desired tang profile of 40/60 acetic-lactic taste. It brushes the lower limits of mouth puckering when eaten alone. This is a bread that is not for everyone but only for sour bread lovers but this bread was also not meant to be eaten alone; it was made to highlight the taste of specific food items: peanut butter for me. I was so glad with how this one turned out. Had this bread been proofed right, the results would be even more outstanding. It's nice to know that I can manipulate the flavors of sourdough. I'm curious on how this one would taste with whole grains in it and what modifiers shall I add to the name of this bread because it will be even tangier.

My parents who do not like sour breads (in fact, they did not like this when they first tasted this but..) agreed with the peanut butter magic! The sourness of the bread complements the sweetness and slight saltiness of the peanut butter (Our first time also to try crunchy peanut butter. Where was this gem for many years?! Even better than the smooth one.) extremely well elevating the taste of each other to whole new levels for a sublime experience.

Toasted with a thick schmear of peanut butter.

dabrownman's picture

Lucy was more giddy than usual with this week’s baking experiment that actually ended up making bread instead of a scientific oddity – as seen on TV.  The premise was simple enough.  Do as little as possible and then do less than that but still squeeze in moderate glass of wine – in a plastic glass of course.

They don’t let the Inmates here have real glass and rightfully so and no stainless steel or metal of any kind for that matter.  At least the menu is mainly bread and water and that is where this post gets interesting ….we had to make 2 loaves for all the special ones trying to steal my tooth paste and floss when not using them or even after wards in case of the floss.

This post also has a bunch of important history in it that goes back, well….. nearly half a week by now which is especially a good thing as I get older, my memory gets weaker and forget what happened during say the Aroostook War of 1838 and 1839 in Maine, where 550 Americans and British died.  There was no combat but the ‘pork and beans’ were apparently very bad.

A very nice bean pepper jack cheese, potato and beef chorizo breakfast baked smothered burrito with Pico on top.

The history we are trying not to forget was Trailrunner’s post this week on not doing much of anything and making a great loaf of YW/SD combo bread followed up by some No Touch Rolls.  Lucy and I have been banned from Combo YW and SD Bimbo bread after that nasty episode in 2013, that we can’t forget, but that is another story hardly related to this one if I remember right.

A crown of thorns in full bloom. 

So, we made a separate Fig YW and NMNF sourdough bread that were identical except for the leavening agent.  Each had 10% levain, 10% whole 7 grains, all in the levain, at 100% hydration.  The 7 grains, were oat, spelt, Kamut, rye, red and white wheat and einkorn.  Both were mixed all together including the salt with a spoon to a shaggy mass except for the levain which was added 1 hour later.  The hydration overall was 72% for both.  We did a whopping 10 slap and folds one each and then let each one sit for 4 hours.

This is the crumb if the darker loaf that looked like it bloomed naturally and not as much

Then we did 3 sets of stretch and folds of 4 stretches each from the compass points - all on 1 hour increments. 30 minutes after the last one we just dumped the dough into rice floured baskets, seam side down, with no shaping at all and let them proof for 2 hours before starting up the oven for 500 F pre-heat and the Mega Steam Lava Rocks on the bottom.

This is the lighter loaf that looked like it was scored and split right down the middle.

Once hot the loaves were dumped out onto parchment on a peel and slid onto the bottom stone.  2 cups of water were poured on the lava rocks as the oven door was shut.  The temperature was turned down to 450 F for 15 minutes of Mega Steam.  When the steam came out the temperature was turned down to 425 F convection for 24 more minutes of dry baking.

All the plants with the exception of the cactus are blooming right now in the front yard.   This was the last one to bloom  today

One came out of the oven at 210 F and one read 208.f even though was taken out last but it was the 2nd one loaded.  One looks like it was scored but it wasn’t and one baked up darker even though the temperature inside was lower.  They both sprang and bloomed about equally.  So which one was the SD and which the Fig YW?

dabrownman's picture

 See it is more matt.  I took the picture out to protect the innocent

sadkitchenkid's picture

Decided to make a cake that uses sourdough as the only leavening agent so I developed this recipe inspired by pineapple upside down cake and blood orange and black sesame seeds in my pantry. This isn't a very sweet cake, you can adjust the sweetness based on preference by adding more or less of the orange blossom syrup.


550g KA ap flour

50g coconut sugar

7g diastatic malt 

65g milk

4 eggs

4oz butter softened

100g active starter



1 cup sugar

1 cup water

3 tbsp lemon juice

1 tsp orange blossom water


Candied Orange Layer: 

1 blood orange very thinly sliced

1/4 cup sugar


Mix all the dough ingredients minus the butter together in a bowl. I was able to just mix it all together with a wooden spoon and didn't need to use my mixer, but using a mixer would be easier here. Once all the ingredients are mixed, add in the softened butter and mix until the dough is smooth and resembles thick cake batter or very wet dough. Let the dough sit at room temperature for 2 hours then place in the fridge overnight. The next morning take the dough out of the fridge and let it come to room temperature. While this happens, prepare your pan. I used a 9inch aluminum pot. I buttered the bottom and placed a 9inch circle of parchment paper over the butter, then spread a then layer of butter over the parchment paper. Then I sprinkled half of the 1/4 cup of sugar over the parchment, placed down the orange slices, and sprinkled the remaining sugar over them. I didn't grease the sides of the pot because I wanted to dough/batter to be able to travel up/stick to the sides as it rose. 

After the dough comes to room temperature, pour it over the orange sugar layer and let proof until almost doubled in volume. This took about 3 hours in my kitchen. In the meantime, boil the syrup ingredients together for about 5 minutes and set aside to cool. When the cake is proofed, bake at 400F for 50 minutes or until a toothpick placed in the center comes out clean or a thermometer placed in the center reads 210F.  Take it out of the oven and let it rest for ten minutes then take a fork and prick the surface. Brush on some of the simple syrup and let that soak for about twenty minutes, then flip the cake out of the pot, peel the parchment off to reveal the now candied orange layer. Let cool and enjoy.


Happy Baking!

trailrunner's picture

whew....I think that says it all !  Date yeast water has been stored in fridge. Still going strong and I had added water to the used dates to see how it would hold up. So far so good. Levain loves Kamut . It filled the jar in a matter of a couple hours so I stored in fridge. Using up many flours from Breadtopia in an effort to move forward with grinding my own grains. These three loaves are the proportions that I used for the buns except I used more grains in the mix to = 532g. I used my Middle Eastern date syrup instead of maple syrup. Final dough is Hard white Spring WW, fresh milled rye, Turkey Hard Red Winter wheat. 

Process. I am still experimenting with almost no hands on. Works really well. I mixed to shaggy stage only making sure ALL was wet. Used a large silicone spatula. NO SALT. Everything else in the bowl. Let it rest on radiator for 4 hrs. Sprinkled on Salt and wet it with spray bottle. Did 30 turns in the bowl with spatula. Covered and left 30 min. one set s & f. left 30 min and did one more set. Then a wrinkle ....I forgot the dough !! yikes !  Didn't set the clock...went about my business for a couple hours....oh wow !! dough loved every minute on its own...appears I have created a very independent bread formula !  Turned it out and cut three chunks for boules. New shaping technique employed that last few loaves with great results....look at those ears !  All I do is lightly dust both sides of dough. Then I pull four corners to the center and pinch them together as much as possible. Flip it over with this side down so will be free-form on top when turned out. No pre-shape ,no dough scraper, no gluten sheath tightening....nothing. Takes a few seconds. Doesn't degas the dough at all. 

Baking. Utilizing my granite ware roasters. 500 degree preheat in oven...takes about 15 min with my electric oven. have loaves on parchment , lower in to hot roaster put in one ice cube. Cover bake at 500 for 10 min lower to 475 10 min. Remove cover...go WOW !  finish for 20 min at 475. Internal temp 211. 

Crumb shot when thoroughly cooled

date YW

kamut levain

date syrup/levain/yogurt

flour mix

dough without salt ....rising nicely and developing structure

with salt sprayed with water 

after 2nd  set of s&f ! 

after first set of s&f

filled the banneton over night in the fridge

nice cracks soon to be ears ! 

yep....looking good 

love my OVE gloves and my roasters 

gorgeous even fine crumb with very crisp crust. flavor is remarkable and only a tiny hint of sour very tender chew



As I said the formula is the same as the buns I posted. 100g of active date YW added to 600g water  and 400g active kamut levain ( it was a rye levain in the buns) 

My feeling is that the levain works slower and the YW works faster but the YW needs warmth and the levain not as much . Seems to complement each other throughout the retarding of the dough as well as the bake. Will post pics of crumb when I get them. 

leslieruf's picture

Well, not sure where my head was yesterday, it was perhaps a comedy of errors but I didn't think that as I put the dough in the fridge to proof overnight.  Start at the beginning. Three different bakes, 1 small loaf each. 

Monday 13:30 refresh 60% ish starter 10 g = 20 water + 30 flour

21:30 pm mix three levains and leave overnight on bench.  it was cool overnight - only 18 deg C when I got up next morning/

Tuesday 7 am - put levains in a cooler part of the pantry as I would not need till after lunch.

11:45 am Country Champlain.  Mix together

Bread flour 169 g + 6 g gluten

Fresh milled spelt 67 g

Fresh milled rye 34 g

Water 215 g 

13:45 pm Add 6 g salt and 52 g 100% hydration levain. Stretch and fold until incorporated then approx 10 minutes mixing the Rubaud style

Rest 10 minutes then repeat for another 5 minutes (using left arm this time!) It is now 14:15 pm and left dough to rest.

14:45 pm Stretch and folds * 20

15:15 pm Stretch and folds * 15

15:55 pm Stretch and fold * 9 then 2 more stretch and folds * 5. 

19:00 preshaped dough - it was sticky but  using bench knife managed it, just!

The dough was spreading like crazy and not holding its shape so after 10 minutes, I oiled the bench knife and managed to shape this very poofy dough into a boule - no way could I have done a batard!. Retard overnight 

Baked this morning 250 deg C for 15 minutes lid on, 230 deg C for 15 lid off.

Here it is before scoring and baking. 

Oh dear, another pancake!  But it is light!  This ended up being about 80% hydration, I forgot to account for the water in the 100% levain so it was obviously much wetter/softer than planned.  This is the lead photo

So on to loaf no 2.  Yeast water & sourdough loaf

Monday night I had mixed a poolish (hope that is correct terminology) of 65 g yeast water and 65 g flour.

Tuesday 12:15 pm mixed flours together for autolyse and when I wanted to add water, realised I had added yeast water to it so this would change the plan.  So I threw it out and measured water again, added to the flour and of course it was not sufficient. :( Back to drawing board.  Re calculated recipe based on what I had and so I added extra flour and water at 12:45 pm and could now get a reasonable dough for autolyse

Bread flour + gluten 396 g

Water 194 g

13:35 pm Add levain 35 g (I had forgotten to mix this and luckily had kept left over from evening before so it was 60% hydration)

Yeast water 57 g 

Salt 8 g

Mixed until incorporated.  then left to rest. At 14:00 decided it didn't look mixed enough so I did about 1 minute or so of Rubaud method.

14:30 Stretch & fold * 20

15:00 Stretch & fold * 15

15:30 Stretch and fold * 10 and at 15:55 stretch and fold * 8.  The final stretch and folds *5 were at 17:00 pm

18:00 pm preshaped.  Dough very poofy 

18:20 pm Very soft, hard to shape.  Did just manage to get a not very tight batard.  Into fridge to proof overnight.

This morning when others were baking I popped it into the freezer to firm it up.  Made it hard to get out of the banneton.  Baked 250 deg C lid on for 15 minutes, lid off at 230 deg C for 15 minutes.

This dough ended up being about 80% hydration - I miscalculated when recalculating the formula. No wonder it was hard to shape!!

A bit flat, but it too is light.  Better than I thought it would be.

Finally bake no. 3, a simple 1:2:3 loaf

 12:30 pm yesterday Mix flours and water for autolyse

bread flour 190 g incl extra gluten

Spelt flour freshly milled 67 g

Rye flour freshly milled 33 g

Water 250 g

14:25 pm add 97 g 100% hydration levain and 6.6 g salt.

Stretch and folds to incorporate.

14:25 pm stretch and fold * 20

15:00 pm Stretch and fold * 17

15:30 Stretch and fold * 10

15:55 pm Stretch and fold * 7 leave then 5 stretch and folds at 17:00 pm and 18:00 pm

18:30 pm preshape. - very sticky, hard to shape, 

18:45 pm  final shape.  Could not hold shape of batard so made a boule. Retard overnight.

Baked this morning at 250 deg C for 15 mins lid on, 15 minutes lid off at 230 deg.  When I removed lid, I removed parchment and this was a bit early so the scores closed up again  and it became a bit of a funny shape because I interfered with the loaf. :(

Well after all that, I was a bit down - really disappointed with my bake.  Apart from the YW mix up the mixing and stretch and folds had gone well.  It went pear shaped at shaping.  We couldn't resist by lunchtime so we cut the loaves .  Crumb shots

Top 2 slices - Country Champlain bottom 2 slices 1:2:3 loaf

Ok very pleasantly surprised by Country Champlain. Nice open crumb.  If it had held its shape, I would have been happier.  1:2:3 - crumb is good, but it feels a lot heavier and it is obviously not as open.

Yeast water / sourdough loaf

Now I am pretty happy with this crumb, would have been better if it hadn't spread so much but it was pretty high hydration for me.  I couldn't resist this last shot

At first I couldn't figure it out, why so all were so hard to shape.  I rechecked calculations today and some of the reason is the high hydration.  Too high for NZ flours.  Lesson learned! 

Also going to repeat the 1:2:3 loaf in a week, then 2 weeks using the same batch of milled flour and see if that makes a difference. i.e fresh vs aged flour

Tomorrow I am going to try Country Champlain again - just a small loaf  - two ways.

1. As I did this bake but with much lower hydration.  I have double checked my figures so will try at 74% hydration

2. I have milled the spelt and rye and sifted it.  I will build the levain tonight using the bran and then in the morning some of the sifted flour for the levain and see if this helps too.  This will also be at 74% hydration.

This is such a challenge, so many variables but hopefully I can figure it out.  


trailrunner's picture

Another double levain dough. I joined a facebook group that uses only yeast waters for baking. Wow....there is SO much info and amazing pictures of breads etc. Anyway I got my feet wet , so to speak with date water. I took a small amount of my AYW and inoculated it with 6 dried dates. Whoa...stand back !  It was full of bubbles in just a couple hours using the lights in my oven to warm it. I added a piece of orange peel, as I do with my apple yeast water, as I think it keeps it from getting too much  alcohol formation. 

733g unbleached KA

266g Spring WW

266g Durum flour

66g yogurt

66g maple syrup

400g ripe rye levain at 100% hydration

100g date YW

600g filtered water 

26g kosher salt

I got many of these figures for this formula from a post Danni had some time back. I double it and changed some things but I have her to thank for the yogurt. It finds its way into all my breads now. I have Ian to thank for the buns :) he has great ones . 

Bread1965 gave me the idea I used for mixing this dough although I changed up one big part. I mixed everything but the salt till a shaggy moist dough. I then covered and set the dough on the radiator to warm. He lets his set for 5 hrs. I think mine was closer to 3 1/2. It was amazingly puffy . Note I did NOTHING but mix to a shaggy stage with a rubber turns or twists or pinches etc. Nothing. I departed from his method at this point. I added the moistened salt by folding in the bowl. I then left it 30min and did a s&f on the board. Dough was SO extensible and puffy  . I waited 30 min and did another s&f. One more at 30 min and that was all. I had gorgeous gluten development. Since I knew I was making buns I then placed it in a bucket and retarded overnight in the fridge at 34 degrees. Look at that growth overnight !! It was barely at 2L when it went into the fridge . 

I removed gently from the bucket and used scissors to cut 3.5 oz pieces. Shaped gently and let rise 1 hr Brushed with egg yolk/half and half mix and sprinkled sesame seeds. Preheated oven to 500. Baked buns for 3 min at 500 and lowered to 475 for 12 min. Rotated pans top to bottom shelves and baked 5 more minutes at 450. Perfect. 








crumb shot added....tender and wonderfully flavorful...just a hint of the date sweetness. Amazingly fragrant crumb

SusanMcKennaGrant's picture





breadforfun's picture

First a shout out to JustJoel whose post lit a fire under me to get this post finished!


A few years I visited Puglia (Apulia) in Southern Italy, where I was introduced to grano arso.  Translated as "burnt wheat," it is the flour made from the few grain kernels remaining after the farmers burned the stalks in the fields but before they were plowed under to prepare for a new planting. The poor workers would collect these grains and use them to supplement their already meager subsistence by incorporating them into pasta and bread products. I was able to find and bring home a small amount of grano arso semola which was made from durum wheat. I used it in making some very good pasta, but did not have enough for bread. I tried to reproduce the flavor by roasting some extra fancy durum flour in a smoker for several hours. It worked, kinda sorta.

Fast forward to couple of weeks ago when I saw this article that rekindled my interest. The difference between now and a few years ago is that I have acquired a grain mill in the interim, so now I could roast whole berries and then mill them, which makes the process much more like the original.  I experimented with a couple of bread bakes using Italian emmer wheat (farro medio), which I had on hand (and I think is more flavorful than the hard white or red varieties of wheat berries).


Preparing the burnt wheat was a fairly straightforward process. I placed the berries in a single layer on a cookie sheet into an oven heated to 375˚F for 13-18 min.  The berries darkened considerably and started to smoke after around 10 min. I called them done when they were a light chestnut color, though I believe I could have roasted them even darker for more flavor. They were milled finely in a single pass using a Mockmill. The grains lost about 11% of their starting weight after roasting, probably mostly the loss of water from within the grain.

I assumed that the roasting process would destroy the glutens, so most of the flour was white and whole wheat with the grano arso contributing only to the taste and presumably not to the structure or texture.  I blended in about 13% of the total flour weight for the first bake.  The grano arso was also quite thirsty, so I kept adding water until it "felt right" and I reached almost 100% hydration. In retrospect, this was a bit too much water and although the gluten developed quite well and the crumb was very open, the loaf was a bit flatter than I had hoped.


This is what the first loaves and crumb looked like.  The crumb was extremely creamy, as you would expect with such a high hydration. The crust was good but softened fairly quickly. The taste of the grano arso was immediately apparent, not unlike burned popcorn, but in a nice way. In the crumb shot there are black specks that I believe are from the grano arso.  The loaf was very tasty, but I think the grano arso was a little too much and the sweetness of the other grains was overpowered. But I do love the rich coffee color the grano arso brings to the loaves.


For the next attempt I reduced the hydration a bit and also reduced the grano arso to under 8% to make the flavor a bit more in the background. This worked flavor-wise: the burnt flavor was more subtle so it paired well with more foods. I kept the salt low for these first bakes, but I think the grano arso can take a fair amount of salt, maybe up to 2.5%. 


I used a lower hydration because of the reduced grano arso, but I think I went a bit too far in the opposite direction.  The gluten was well developed but the crumb structure was not quite so open. I think between the two bakes I've seen the upper and lower limits of hydration, so the next bake will be somewhere in the middle. 

The two loaves on the left of this photo are made with grano arso. The other two are basically the same formula using einkorn flour that I made in case the first ones didn't work out.


There is a huge flavor range to explore here - different grains, different roasting times, different percentages depending on what it will be served with. I look forward to the challenge.










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