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alfanso's picture
alfanso

Tritordeum flour experimentation and summary.

Recall that Tritordeum  is a recent grain developed in Spain these past few decades and is a hybrid of wild barley and semolina with the advantage of numerous health and sustainability benefits.  

I returned home from our recent trip to Barcelona with a few kilos of the flour to satisfy my curiosity.  And so it has.  I’ve now run four iterations using the flour with differing combinations.  Hardly a scientifically sustained approach, but enough to give me a notion as to how the flour performs.  The two versions of tritordeum that I have are T150 and T65.

I liken the T150 to our Whole Wheat flour and the T65 to our AP flour.  I found the T65 much more suitable for baguettes than the T150.

For the first two runs I used 20% pre-fermented flour and then switched to 15% for the final two runs.

For the final three runs I “autolysed" the levain as well.  So you can clearly see that I am breaking most rules of scientific research.  But that really wasn’t the point of this exercise.  Not at all.

In both mixes at 70% total hydration, the dough still maintained its extensible characteristic although nowhere near my first difficult excursion using this flour last Autumn.

In both mixes at 65% total hydration, the dough was more compliant and did not lead to a runaway shaping experience.  I’ll also posit that this dough could much more easily be applied to batard or boule without the minor shaping difficulties I experienced rolling them out as baguettes.

 

In all 4 runs I treated the dough similarly, except for the differing autolyse approaches.   
  • 100 French Folds, 5 min. rest, 100 French Folds.
  • 2 hour bulk rise with letter folds at 45, 90 and 120 minutes.
  • Retarded for about 6-10 hours before divide and shape.
  • Back to retard for a total of somewhere between 14-18 hours.
  • Preheated oven to 480dF, Bake at 460dF.
  • 13 minutes with steam, ~13 minutes more, 3 minutes oven venting

 Run #1.  Using T150

  • Total Dough: 80 / 20 flour mix @ T150 / (high protein) Bread Flour. @70% total hydration.  
  • Levain: 100% hydration with T150 tritordeum.  20% pre-fermented flour.

 


Run #2.  Using T150

  • Total Dough: 50 / 50 flour mix @ T150 / AP Flour. @70% total hydration. 
  • Levain: 100% hydration with T150 tritordeum.  20% pre-fermented flour.

Run #3.  Using T150

  • Total Dough: 50 / 50 flour mix @ T150 / AP Flour. @65% total hydration.
  • Levain: 75% hydration with T150 tritordeum.  15% pre-fermented flour.

Run #4.  Using T65

  • Total Dough: 50 / 50 flour mix @ T65 / AP Flour. @65% total hydration.
  • Levain: 75% hydration with T65 tritordeum.  15% pre-fermented flour.

 

In summary, I was much more comfortable and confident of the dough for the final run.  The conversion from 70% hydration to 65% made a significant difference in the handling of the dough, as well as the final product emerging from the oven.  The taste is quite good.  I don’t think that the change from 100% to 75% levain hydration made a whit of difference but I had made both in advance some weeks ago in anticipation of using both.

I can’t discount the value of repeated handling and familiarity using the flour.  If I were to incorporate this flour into a regular regimen, I would use the 4th and final run as my gold standard.  It just performed beautifully and I think that the 50/50 flour mix at 65% hydration makes this a top quality dough to work with.  Unfortunately the downside is that this flour apparently still has little distribution in Europe and is not approved for sale yet un the US.

And again, for those who think that one cannot achieve an open crumb at lower hydrations, here is more evidence that it can be done.

Anne-Marie B's picture
Anne-Marie B

Crisp scrolls filled with layers of tahini and cinnamon. Easy and delicious. A keeper.

 

The experience is enhanced by listening to Giovanni Gabrieli's brass sonata - pian' e forte

python_mainly's picture
python_mainly

Hi Fresh Loaf community,

I'm on a quest to find a recipe for an extremely healthy spelt rye sourdough bread recipe. I'm seeking your input on a recipe guideline. 

Here's the background:  I've been following this site for more than 7 years and I absolutely love seeing everyone's hard work. While I do a lot of cooking on a daily/weekly basis, I've only successfully baked the classic Tartine Country Loaf on a few occasions. For the last 2-3 years, I've been really eating as close to Whole 30 style as possible (which means no bread). But a bite of a good sourdough bread is one of my favorites tastes on earth! So, I'd like to incorporate small amounts of healthy bread back into my weekly eating program. 

My main goal is to create a loaf of bread that optimizes health, taste, and cost. Obviously, any form of gluten does not qualify for Whole 30, but I'd love for a nutritionist approve of this bread recipe.

I'm going to list why I think a spelt rye sourdough might be best and my thoughts/methods for a quality recipe. I'd love the TFL community's input on all the topics below:

Why I Think A Spelt Rye Sourdough Bread is Healthiest:

  1. Spelt/Rye breads are typically high in fiber. Maximizing fiber content is one of my goals for this recipe. My thinking is "well... if your body doesn't like accepting gluten, this bread will at least pass through you quickly".  ;)
  2. Fermented foods are recommended by nutritionists for good gut health. I wouldn't put a baked loaf of sourdough bread into the "fermented foods" category, but I have a hunch that using the fermented sourdough starter is healthier than not using it in a bread recipe. 
  3. While some breads may be best suited for wheat/white flour, Spelt/Rye recipes can really be a canvas for incorporating various multi-grain ingredients. 

But maybe someone is aware of a healthier bread that isn't too far off from standard sourdough bread prep?

Methods/Thoughts for a Quality Recipe:

  1. I want to use a sourdough starter. I think a 50% white/50% wheat starter is what I'll use. But maybe someone recommends only using spelt flour for such a starter?
  2. More research is being done lately that suggests eating seeds is not good for your body to digest. So, if I use any seeds in this recipe, I'd love to first soak them and then blend/food process them until they reach a paste or sauce-like texture that can be added to the dough. Or seed that have been ground.
  3. Spelt/Ryes often include alcohol (like beer) in the recipe. I want to exclude alcohol. 
  4. Spelt/Ryes often include a sweetener like molasses, syrup, honey, or treacle. I want to exclude all these sweeteners and get creative. I'd love to create a reduction sauce from soaked prunes/dates/figs to make a sweetener that resembles molasses. Has anyone ever tried making an all-natural sweetener in this fashion? 
  5. I also think Spelt/Rye breads keep in the freezer really well. I'll probably slice up the remaining bread, put it in the freezer, and pull it out for a quick pan fry.

Final Recipe

I think my final recipe will look something like this (but would love any kind of input from the community):

  • XX% of spelt flour (I'm currently considering Nature's Legacy VitaSpelt Non-GMO Whole Grain Spelt)  
  • XX% of rye flour (I'm currently considering Hodgson Mill All Natural Rye Flour) 
  • XX% of sourdough starter
  • XX% of salt
  • Optional but likely: XX% of ground flax seed
  • Optional but likely: XX% of prune reduction sauce homemade sweetener

 

My recipe inspirations are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d3qDLrpQh10'
Renee's Rye Bread from Tartine No. 3

 

In honor of meal prep, I'd love to make 2-4 loaves like this every other Sunday:

 

 

 

Elsie_iu's picture
Elsie_iu

Green bread might be my favorite after yellow bread.

 

 

Pandan Candlenut 20% Sprouted White Quinoa Sourdough

 

Dough flour (all freshly milled):

150g      50%       Whole white wheat flour

90g        30%       Sprouted white wheat flour

60g        20%       Sprouted white quinoa flour

 

For leaven:

10g        3.3%       Starter

30g         10%       Bran sifted from dough flour

30g         10%       Water

 

For pandan-infused water:

5 strips          -%       Pandan leaves, frozen (freezing damages plant cells and softens the leaves, which eases the grinding process)

~190g      63.3%       Water

 

For dough:

270g         90%       Dough flour excluding bran for leaven

190g      63.3%       Pandan-infused water

60g           20%       Whey

70g        23.3%       Leaven

9g               3%       Vital wheat gluten

5g          1.67%       Salt

 

Add-ins:

30g            10%       Toasted candlenuts

 

__________

305g        100%       Whole grain

285g       93.4%       Total hydration

 

Sift out the bran from dough flour, reserve 30 g for the leaven. Soak the rest, if any, in equal amount of whey taken from dough ingredients.

Combine all leaven ingredients and let sit until ready, around 4 hours (27°C).  

Make the pandan-infused water. Using a pair of scissors, cut the pandan leaves into small pieces then process them with 50g water in a blender. Strain out the fiber by filtering the mixture through a sieve, pressing out as much liquid as possible with the back of a spoon. Add enough water to get a total volume of 190g.

Roughly combine all dough ingredients except for the leaven and salt, autolyze for 15 minutes. Knead in the reserved ingredients and ferment for a total of 3 hours 15 minnutes. Construct a set of stretch and fold and fold in the add-ins at the 15 and 30 minutes mark respectively.

Preshape the dough and let it rest for 20 minutes. Shape the dough then put in into a banneton. Retard for 11 hours.

Preheat the oven at 250°C/482°F. Let the dough warm up at room temperature for 20 minutes. Score and spritz the dough then bake at 250°C/482°F with steam for 20 minutes then without steam for 25 minutes more or until the internal temperature reaches a minimum of 208°F. Let it cool for a minimum of 2 hours before slicing.

 

 

As hard white wheat is much weaker than hard red wheat and spelt, the dough wasn’t quite elastic or extensible. The fact that I over-hydrated it only made the situation worse. Fortunately, it didn’t lose too much strength during the bulk and managed to rise without excessive spreading.

 

 

I was torn between using cashew or using candlenut but finally settled on the latter as it has a milder taste. Pandan, sprouted white quinoa and sprouted white wheat are all delicate in flavour that cashew can easily dominate over them. The taste of the bread is sweet in a mellow way with hints of pandan undernote. I find it lacking in sourness personally but some would probably find this ideal.

 

______

 

Shanghai fried noodles + green beans with olive pickles minced meat + pastudon (100% semola homemade “udon”)

 

Thai basil fried rice with a fried egg

 

Spaghetti in herb & garlic white wine sauce with eggplants and pan-seared salmon

 

Thai basil pesto rice vermicelli with pan-grilled baby cuttlefish, bell peppers and toasted cashews

 

Red curry risotto with shiitake mushrooms and a soft pressure-cooked egg

 

Mixed veggies Thai green curry, scrambled eggs with shrimps & bitter melon, pandan leaf wrapped pork loin, sweet & sour green bean, bean sprout & red pepper salad with toasted cashews, and served with plain white basmati rice

 

DesigningWoman's picture
DesigningWoman

…or: how many variables can we change at once?

A few things have caught my attention in the last week or so:

  • oat porridge from the Community Bake: makes for a lovely crumb, as does a fermented oak soaker
  • while I liked the crumb of the oat porridge bread, I felt like it could do with a little more textural contrast
  • Caroline (trailrunner) has been experimenting with bakes using unfed starter
  • my associate brought me a bags of T80 ("high-extraction"?) and T110 ("first-clear"?) from the country. No idea whether the stuff is stone ground, nor of the protein content
  • saw on some French site that adding 10% semolina helps strengthen a potentially weak dough.

So, where to start? Maybe with the levain. This do-nothing bread usually calls for 10-20g of starter, depending on ambient temps. Up until this week, I would obediently mix up a fresh batch, but always felt silly about just making 20g of the stuff, so always made about 150g, using the extra 130g for my yogurt cake. Because of Caroline's experiments, I decided to try using 23g of starter straight from the fridge (the extra three grams was for the porridge).

Caroline mentioned a double-boiler for the oat porridge, and all of a sudden I had this flash of a childhood memory of a lovely hotel cook stirring the stuff over a double boiler. So cooked 50g of whole oat flakes in 100g of water that way. I didn't get any sticking, but I didn't get creamy, either.

While the oats were cooling, I opened the cupboard and measured out the various flours. I didn't sift, but gave everything a good whisking with salt and seeds.Since I didn't know the protein content of the T80 flour, I only used 200g of that with 200g of T65 bread flour (12% protein). The fine-grind whole semolina was 12;4% protein, and the T110 was another unknown quantity. (In the lead photo, clockwise from bottom left: semolina, T110, black sesame seeds, T65, flax seeds, T80.)

I either forgot that I wanted to try something other than water, or decided that I'd already thrown too many unknowns together, so used just room-temperature water.

In the end, this is what got tossed together:

  • 23g whole-rye starter (100% hydration) from the fridge
  • 150g whole-oat porrdige (1:2 ratio)
  • 50g whole semolina (fine grind)
  • 50g T110
  • 200g T65
  • 200g T80
  • 17g black sesame seeds
  • 18g flax seeds
  • 350g water
  • 12g NaCl

Method:

  • Whisked together water and starter, then added the cooled porridge
  • Added this mixture to all the other stuff, gave a good mix to get a shaggy mess with no dry bits
  • Covered and left at room temperature for at least 12 hours
  • Actually, at about 12.5 hours, this batch was ready for shaping, but I needed to get lunch started, so popped the dough into the fridge for a couple of hours, then let it come back to room temp for about an hour
  • Preshape was sticky and slack, but I was ready for it and didn't panic.
  • Bench rested, final shaped, dipped in seeds and proofed in wooden bread molds for about 1.5 hours
  • Baked at 230° for 20 minutes covered, then 210° for another 20 minutes uncovered. Took the loaves out of their molds at the same time as removing the lid.
  • I left one loaf unscored and baked seam-side up; the other got the usual three diagonal slashes, but not deeply enough. The unscored one baked up taller and longer.

It occured to me after I removed the loaves from the oven that Caroline also uses her yeast water, which is something I need to get back to. I'm wondering if I could've pushed the final proof a little longer. Will know tomorrow when I cut one open. The other has been gifted.

Edit: crumb shot and taste report

Crumb is tighter than I'd have liked, which makes me think I could've proofed longer -- or taken Caroline's lead and used yeast water as part of the mix (I shall get around to making one). Or, just feed my starter before mixing into the dough.

Because of the oats, the crumb is soft, with little bits of nubbiness from the seeds. I like the taste of this one, so will probably rework this again, maybe starting tonight.

 

 

pul's picture
pul

Hello Everyone,

This is a short writing about a 60% whole grain loaf baked this morning. The whole grain was a mix of stone ground whole wheat and organic rye, which was let to autolyse with all salt while the levain was building (~8 hours). The hydration during autolyse was about 67% (water to whole grain flour ratio), while the loaf hydration was 75%.  I bulk fermented at room temperature (~ 27C) for 4 hours, and then shoved it in the fridge for another 12 hours of bulk cold fermentation. In the morning, I took the dough out of the fridge, shaped and proofed for 50 min at room temperature, and then baked from a cold oven start and cold pot.

I am quite OK with the resulting crumb and crust. My whole wheat flour is quite course, so you can see bits in the crumb. A good autolyse is needed to avoid problems with the gluten network formation. This was a small loaf containing 300 gr total flour (180 gr whole grain), 8.3% fermented flour, 75% hydration, and a dash of honey.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

She made it to 15 so Lucy got her promotion to Baker's Apprentice First Class.  She sends her congrats to all the mothers out there on this special day.

Lucy celebrated by picking cherry tomatoes this morning.  Mom asked for ribs for dinner and they are dry rubbed in the fridge we wll make some some sausages and maybe so chicken thighs too.

AnneTXbaker's picture
AnneTXbaker

I've learned many things in my 60+ years, but one thing gets forgotten sometimes, and that is: Don't do too many things at the same time! 
Preparing the dough for (Jeffrey Hamelman's) Pain au levain I was distracted and poured 400ml warm water into the starter, instead of the 280ml.  Thankfully I realized my mistake, and added a 50g mix of rye, and bread flour.  The dough was a little more hydrated than usual, but felt great during the S&Fs, and in to the fridge it went.
Long story short:  Baking day oven was on for other things, and I forgot to place my baking stone in the oven.
Lodge cast iron DO to the rescue! 
In it went. 
Temperature increase achieved.  Dough goes in and 55 minutes later...HUGE sigh of relief!

not.a.crumb.left's picture
not.a.crumb.left

 

Time for the weekly bake and I decided that I want to improve  my shaping of a 'torpedo' style loaf

with more tampered ends. Not quite there but making a start...

Research first and I've found the following bakers on IG which shared their shaping and watched their videos endless times...

One is from @mothersoven and very much like a batard shape in BREAD, if I remember correctly...getting that tension right to be able to roll the ends - a bit like baguette -  is tough and will need much more practice...

https://www.instagram.com/p/BQFVc8jjKx8/

https://www.instagram.com/p/BmYE3RxB5Th/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link

I also had to change my schedule and decided to go with a premix - so mixed with salt using icecold water and then put the cold dough with salt in wine cooler at 12C for the night. Dough temp was 19C at the beginning.

Got up at 5AM and added the overnight leaven.

This was :

2250g of with 50% Shipton Mill Dark Swiss Flour and 50% Canadian Strong bread Flour

15% levain from overnight fed at 80% hydration

78% hydration (dough felt stiff considering and forgot how thirsty the Canadian flour is...)

I used gentle Rubaud when adding levain and also a gentle lamination to warm dough up and then 3 X hourly S & F.

I then had to go out and basically the dough was left alone in proofer at 21C. I came home at 11:00 and the dough was ready to pre-shape, 30 min benchrest and 30 min rest in banneton before into 4C wine cooler.

It was nice to be able to use the pre-mix and knowing the dough will not turn into soup and also helps with developing that gluten without muscle power with that much dough...

Now, all the bread was given away apart from the smaller torpedo loaf  and crumb above...I really wish I could analyse crumb better to learn....I applied @mothersoven shaping and wonder whether my rolling it creates that denser area in the middle? The shaping learning is going to be continued....

 

Rustic Rye's picture
Rustic Rye

 

I began baking bread when I was unemployed and feeling pretty down and out in life. I was searching for something beside triathlon to give me some purpose. Some people turn to church; I turned to my oven. My inspiration came from seeing these beautiful artisan loaves on Instagram and wanting to give it a try. How hard could it be?

I began with basic sandwich loaves made with dry active yeast, then moved on to experimenting with putting herbs or nuts in the dough. I was very pleased with the results since it all tasted really good. But something was missing.

A couple months after I began baking, my girlfriend Sam and I were visiting a couple friends in New York and I mentioned my recent headlong dive into bread. It turns out one of our hosts had a sourdough starter and she was willing to give me some. I was thrilled! We talked through the process and how the process differs from using commercial yeast.

After making a few sad, dense, bricks that were best suited for construction, I started to figure out the process. I can still recall the amazing smell of my first good loaf, and my state of complete wonderment that the natural yeast and bacteria could create this incredible product. Ever since that eureka moment of biting into my first successful loaf, I have been on a sourdough journey to continue experimenting with flavors and flour blends to create healthy and delicious naturally leavened bread.

I found that baking has been a great distraction from triathlon and another activity besides the good ole swim/bike/run/day job. Bread is also a great creative outlet where I can express myself through different scoring patterns or blending flours to create a wide variety of delicious bread. Just like triathlon, the more I learn about bread making, the more I enjoy it and want to continue honing my craft. Conversely, there will never be a world championships with bread making so I'm not really chasing professional performance and I'll never be butting elbows with the best in the world. But that's part of what makes bread so much fun. It's just bread.

 

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