Ancienne over-mixing puzzle
I do 80% hydration ciabatta all the time, usually with half the flour pre-fermented in a stiff biga. It goes fine. I have no trouble mixing, on the Kitchenaid's 3rd speed, to the point that the dough is extremely smooth, silky and shiny, and even detaches from the bottom of the bowl. Takes about ten minutes.
I'm trying out Reinhart's Pain a l'ancienne, from BBA, and finding it extremely easy to overmix, like after even 4 or 5 minutes on 2nd speed. (With overmixing the dough suddenly loses smoothness and takes on an evil grainy gluey texture. It won't rise properly.)
I just want to understand why. Same hydration, same water and flour. So it's either (1) the lower temperature (ice water) or (2) the lack of pre-fermenting that makes the dough less tolerant of vigorous mixing. Any guidance welcome!
Mixing is applying energy to the dough, including its gluten. Cold dough requires more energy and in stiff biga more gluten forms over time. More gluten requires more energy/kneading to develop it.
Usually, (softer) preferments reduce the bread dough kneading time, though, because gluten is developed or even degraded (in case of liquid preferments) as preferments ferment.
Thanks very much! And I just edited my last sentence to fix an error bring it in line with the rest of the post.
Maybe a related question: if you are making pain a l'ancienne, what is the best way to develop gluten, since it does not seem to be tolerant of really vigorous mixing at the start?
One approach I've seen is an initial mix to just eliminate lumps, into the fridge for a bit, and then back out once chilled for stretch-and-folds.
Another is here: https://tonyfitzgeraldphotography.com/2021/07/02/pain-a-lancienne-french-bread/ and it does this:
which leads me to suspect they encountered the same problem I did when I followed BBA's directions.
Colin, this formula is for a 80%hydration dough which is very high even for dry or whole grain flours.
High hydration does not let gluten to form, for there are too many water molecules between gluten molecules for them to link into gluten network. That is why when you knead wet doughs immediately, it is so easy to overmix them because you apply a lot of energy to a small amount of gluten (the remedy to broken gluten is to add a little salt, it will repair gluten).
1-10-1-10-1-10... schedule simply gives gluten more time to form while limiting the amount of time the energy is applied to it, as you knead it breaking 3D gluten strands and rearranging them into 2D sheets and films with air and moisture trapped in between. Doing 1-30-2 or 1-60-4 will achieve the same goal. You do not need to come to your mixer every ten min to make it work for one min.
Usually though, the double hydration method is used. First mix a 65% hydration bread dough. Let it rest, regrigerated if necessary, for 20-60min for gluten molecules to bond, and knead it to develop gluten on medium speed. Then switch to lower speed and incorporate the remaining 10-15% water little by little as you finish developing gluten without weakening it.
Grainy is not generally indicative of over-mixing - Over-mixing being the irreparabile loss of gluten elasticity.
Sounds like under mixing. In any case, along the lines of what mariana was saying, over-mixing is the result of a continuous excessive input of energy. No way 4-5 minutes at a moderate speed could cause that - no way!
pre-fermentation of flour will reduce resistance and therefore reduce mixing time.