Seeking tips on my 50/50
Hey y'all. Seeking some tips to improve crumb and spring.
White starter gets two 1:1:1 advance feedings and rises 2.0-2.5x
overnight Levain @100g water
25g starter + 100g white + 100g water
2 Loaf Formula
400g KA blue [304g Water @76%]
500g Lindley SuperSprout [450 g Water @90%)]
Flour + 754g (83%) water at 80 deg F
20g Salt
½ tsp yeast spike
225g levain
20g water for S&Fs
Flour: 1100g levain flour + dough flour
754g flour water
100g levain water
20g added S&Fs.
H2o: ~874g (87%)
Dough Temp: 75 F
Timeline
6:30pm | Autolyze, water at 80F |
7:00pm | Mix +5g water, DT 78F |
7:15 | SFI +5g water 76F |
7:30 | SFII + 5g water 74F |
7:45 | SFIII + 5g water, 72F |
8:00 | SF-IV +0g water, 72F, Bulk in oven |
10:30 | 1.9x Rise Bench rest DT=78F Shape Retard Loaf 1: 44F Retard Loaf 2: 38F |
Loaf 1:
7:30am overproofed,
stuck to bannedton, mauled at removal
collapsed a bit a bake, surprised it held at all.
Loaf 2:
didn't move in the 38F fridge.
Counter top proofing throughout the day, missed it and overproofed, collapsed a bit at bake time.
Results
Overproofed, despite catching at 1.9x bulk and retarding.
Very freaking wet. How have I been cooking such wet dough?
Bread is still tasty
Thanks!
The crumb, stuck to banneton and handling issues points to hydration.
Cut back on the water.
76% is on the high end of what I would expect KABF to handle on its own. Not that no one has managed it, but I would expect closer to 73-74% on average.
My understanding is that sprouted flour would absorb less water than unsprouted flour, due to enzymatic degradation of the starch and gluten. Unless I'm using a scald or soaker, I don't see hydration higher than ~85% with freshly milled whole wheat.
However, it's also definitely overproofed. Reducing hydration may improve the structure enough to eliminate that problem, or it may not. With the warm temperature of your fridge, I'd look into stopping the bulk ferment at 1.5-1.7x, or experiment with the cooler temperature despite the lack of visible rise. The dough will do some proofing as it cools, even if you can't see a difference in volume, and that may be enough. If you try it out and find it underproofed, add ambient proof before the retard in 30 minute increments.
Thanks. Will cut back to these percentages, for a total hydration of 80% (formerly 87%). Pretty far off!!
Fridge temp: I have a mini fridge that I can use for the proofing. 44F is warm? 40F is better?
388g [+283g Water @73%] KA blue
500g [+400 g Water @80%)] Lindley SuperSprout
Peter Reinhart recommends 90% hy for the sprouted (roller milled) WW, so that was my starting point! Appreciate the view on the KABF; not sure how I got so high, there. I now see I have another chart recommending it at 62%.
I had read (somewhere) that pumping in hydration was one of the ways to get an airy, open crumb. Maybe there's a lot more context to that advice, or that's a "fine tuning" adjustment that has to be considered after you get the macro hydration dialed in.
Main change: Less wet (going to 80% from 87%)
Starter 2x feedings at 1:2:2
Overnite levain achive 3x
08:30 Autolyze at 85F. DT 85F
09:15 Begin mixing all. DT 82F
09:30 DT 76F
09:45 SF I, 20x, 76F
10:00 SF II, 20x 77F
10:20 SF III, 10x 77F
10:40 SF IV, 10x 76F, Bulk
13:45 Achieved 2x, 78F. Pour out, preshape, bench
14:30 Shape & Proof
Loaf 1, Counter at 75F
Loaf 2, Fridge at 40F
Loaf 1:
Loaf 2:
This is 82% hydration.
Starter: 2 feedings with rye. 2.3x rise on second feeding.
Saturday am: Levain 3x
Flour from freezer, added water at 93F.
3:30 Autolyze, final DT 85F
4:00 Mix. DT 78F
4:30 SF three times, 15m apart, Bulking @ DT 76F
6:30 hasn't moved
8:00 1.5x
8:30 1.75x, bench, shape, a bit ugly
9:00 Retarded proof at 36F
Loaf 1, nice banneton, held shape, bigger belly, no flavor
Loaf 2, crummy banneton, spread more, sides compressed -- maybe because of a sticky banneton, same bland flavor
The left-hand loaf looks very respectable. A lag after mixing until visible rising activity of 3 hours or so is common, nothing unusual there. I probably would have proofed longer on the counter before retarding but that probably wouldn't have made much difference.
I don't see a reason for a bland flavor, but you might try a longer bulk ferment.
TomP
Questions: Can you take a look at my pictures and share observations? Especially about Loaf 2 proofing shape and collapse during bake?
Item
Total g
Flour g
Water g
Water %
Starter
25
13
13
100.0%
Levain
200
100
100
100.0%
White
388
287
74.0%
KABF
Wheat
500
430
86.0%
Sprouted WW
Bassinage
0
Totals
1000.5
829.62
83%
Starter Feed I: 1:2:2 50/50 rye/white
Starer Feed II: 1:2:2 white, 3x rise
Overnight Levain 1:4:4, 225g total
7:30a Autolyze
8:00 Mix
8:30 SF I
8:45 SF II
9:00 SF III, Bulk, DT 75F
11:30 1.25x rise, moved to fridge
3:00pm 2x bulk rise. Forgot to oil bucket, tears a bit on pour out.
3:15 Divide, pre-shape, bench rest
4:15 shape
4:30 Retard proof
Proof
Loaf 1: Retarded for 8 hrs in mini fridge at 38-44 F, widely varying temps.
Loaf 2: Retarded for 36 hrs at 38-deg F. 1 hr on the counter top before the bake
Looked small, still well-domed, and passed the poke test (slow spring back)
But I suspect overproofing led to a bit of collapse.
Baked at 500F for 15m, opened dutch oven, then 400F 15m.
Both are tasty.
=============== Loaf 1 ===============
=============== Loaf 2 ===============