When I made bagels the other day mine did not float at first, it took an hour for them to have enough air pockets to float in the water. Did you use active dry yeast for a recipe that called for rapid rise yeast? Was the kitchen really cold? There are many reasons for your dough not to rise well.
When you say the bagel didn't "float," do you mean none of the 13 floated at all when placed in the boiling water after you removed them from the fridge? Did you use a slotted spoon to make sure it wasn't stuck to the bottom?
If so, it's not that big of a deal. Just leave them in the boiling water for the noted 45 seconds before moving them into the bowl of ice water (presuming you are following Mr. Hamelman's formula precisely).
How long did you keep them in the refrigerator? At least six hours or overnight? I find that eight to 10 hours overnight works pretty well.
Also, how much yeast did you use? Just curious of you have the errata to Mr. Hamelman's book, which changed the amount of yeast.
Whatever, there's no requirement in the formula that they are supposed to float. The only time "float" is mentioned is in paragraph six, when he talks about dropping them into the boiling water.
I have not made Hamelman's bagels but I have made bagels before. The float test was carried out in cold water after the bagels have been proofing for about 40 minutes. using one bagel as a test bagel, the bagel is submerged in the water and should start floating within 10 seconds. If it doesn't float, the bagels are left out and checked every 10 to 20 minutes. Then the bagels are put in the refrigerator over night and baked within two days. Hope this helps
There are so many possible reasons for sinking bagels, it's tough to comment. However, I've had many students here who have had the same problem. Commonly, though not absolutely, the culprit is the temperature of the fridge used for retardation. It should be at 39-40 degrees F. Most fridge thermometers are inaccurate junk. Get a good one ($25 +/-) and start from there.
use 1 table spoon of instance yeast to 2lb of high gluten flour
Whoa! Hamelman's formula in the book calls for .07 oz. or 3/4 teaspoon of yeast, not a full tablespoon. His June 2010 errata increased the instant yeast amount to .14 oz, or 1 3/8 teaspoon.
I think you misread the amount of salt, which is one tablespoon, for the yeast, Mike. Not hard to do. One time I mixed the dough and misread the diastatic malt powder amount for the salt. Naturally that was the day I was in a rush and didn't do my usual mise en place. We won't talk about that fiasco.
Cut back on the yeast, Mike, to 1 and 3/8 teaspoon (.14 ounce) and I think your bagels will pop up the next time you slip them into the boiling water.
BTW, I've read elsewhere that Mr. Hamelman advises not to warm up the bagels before boiling. Boil them straight from the cooler. I regularly do that.
Since you have the book, here's the link to where you can download the June 2010 errata, which Paul so generously has shared.
BTW, for the posters who have talked about floating their bagels before retardation, that's Peter Reinhart's technique.
Hamelman's formula and technique is much simpler: mix, bulk ferment for an hour, shape, retard overnight, then boil for 45 seconds, ice, and bake. There's no need for a float test because truthfully, once they're in the boiling water, not much you can do anyway but fish them out and bake.
How long do you ice the bagels? Is there a reason for doing that? I am definitely going to get his book, but have to pace myself. You sound like you make bagels often. I used a bread flour for my bagels, but it wasn't a high quality one and I am wondering if I should have added extra gluten to it. It seemed that some of them had larger air pockets than others. Those who had used bread flours that were higher quality seemed to have a more consistent smaller holed crumb.
The reason for icing the bagels once they come out of the malted boiling water is to keep them from rising too much before they're baked.
Professonal baker and author Dan DiMuzio addressed icing here. I don't work at the speed of light, so I keep them in the ice water until the next few bagels are ready to come out of the boiling water.
I tried bread flour once, but we didn't like it. I tried adding vital wheat gluten to bread flour and noses were turned up at the result. That's one of the problems once you get used to bagels made with high-gluten flour. We've found there's a difference in taste and texture. I finally was able to source 50# of Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour for $20 through a friend who owns a restaurant, so now I pretty much make bagels weekly for family and good friends.
I just wish I could figure a way to retain the wonderful crackly crust crunch, which lasts only a few hours after they've been baked.
Pace yourself on baking or buying books? If the latter, get Bread first. You won't need any other books for a time - there's a lot of info to study and absorb.
When I made bagels the other day mine did not float at first, it took an hour for them to have enough air pockets to float in the water. Did you use active dry yeast for a recipe that called for rapid rise yeast? Was the kitchen really cold? There are many reasons for your dough not to rise well.
Joanne
When you say the bagel didn't "float," do you mean none of the 13 floated at all when placed in the boiling water after you removed them from the fridge? Did you use a slotted spoon to make sure it wasn't stuck to the bottom?
If so, it's not that big of a deal. Just leave them in the boiling water for the noted 45 seconds before moving them into the bowl of ice water (presuming you are following Mr. Hamelman's formula precisely).
How long did you keep them in the refrigerator? At least six hours or overnight? I find that eight to 10 hours overnight works pretty well.
Also, how much yeast did you use? Just curious of you have the errata to Mr. Hamelman's book, which changed the amount of yeast.
Whatever, there's no requirement in the formula that they are supposed to float. The only time "float" is mentioned is in paragraph six, when he talks about dropping them into the boiling water.
I have not made Hamelman's bagels but I have made bagels before. The float test was carried out in cold water after the bagels have been proofing for about 40 minutes. using one bagel as a test bagel, the bagel is submerged in the water and should start floating within 10 seconds. If it doesn't float, the bagels are left out and checked every 10 to 20 minutes. Then the bagels are put in the refrigerator over night and baked within two days. Hope this helps
There are so many possible reasons for sinking bagels, it's tough to comment. However, I've had many students here who have had the same problem. Commonly, though not absolutely, the culprit is the temperature of the fridge used for retardation. It should be at 39-40 degrees F. Most fridge thermometers are inaccurate junk. Get a good one ($25 +/-) and start from there.
CJ
thanks for the response i use 1 table spoon of instance yeast to 2lb of high gluten flour
Whoa! Hamelman's formula in the book calls for .07 oz. or 3/4 teaspoon of yeast, not a full tablespoon. His June 2010 errata increased the instant yeast amount to .14 oz, or 1 3/8 teaspoon.
I think you misread the amount of salt, which is one tablespoon, for the yeast, Mike. Not hard to do. One time I mixed the dough and misread the diastatic malt powder amount for the salt. Naturally that was the day I was in a rush and didn't do my usual mise en place. We won't talk about that fiasco.
Cut back on the yeast, Mike, to 1 and 3/8 teaspoon (.14 ounce) and I think your bagels will pop up the next time you slip them into the boiling water.
BTW, I've read elsewhere that Mr. Hamelman advises not to warm up the bagels before boiling. Boil them straight from the cooler. I regularly do that.
Since you have the book, here's the link to where you can download the June 2010 errata, which Paul so generously has shared.
BTW, for the posters who have talked about floating their bagels before retardation, that's Peter Reinhart's technique.
Hamelman's formula and technique is much simpler: mix, bulk ferment for an hour, shape, retard overnight, then boil for 45 seconds, ice, and bake. There's no need for a float test because truthfully, once they're in the boiling water, not much you can do anyway but fish them out and bake.
Let us know how it goes, Mike.
How long do you ice the bagels? Is there a reason for doing that? I am definitely going to get his book, but have to pace myself. You sound like you make bagels often. I used a bread flour for my bagels, but it wasn't a high quality one and I am wondering if I should have added extra gluten to it. It seemed that some of them had larger air pockets than others. Those who had used bread flours that were higher quality seemed to have a more consistent smaller holed crumb.
Joanne
The reason for icing the bagels once they come out of the malted boiling water is to keep them from rising too much before they're baked.
Professonal baker and author Dan DiMuzio addressed icing here. I don't work at the speed of light, so I keep them in the ice water until the next few bagels are ready to come out of the boiling water.
I tried bread flour once, but we didn't like it. I tried adding vital wheat gluten to bread flour and noses were turned up at the result. That's one of the problems once you get used to bagels made with high-gluten flour. We've found there's a difference in taste and texture. I finally was able to source 50# of Sir Lancelot high-gluten flour for $20 through a friend who owns a restaurant, so now I pretty much make bagels weekly for family and good friends.
I just wish I could figure a way to retain the wonderful crackly crust crunch, which lasts only a few hours after they've been baked.
Pace yourself on baking or buying books? If the latter, get Bread first. You won't need any other books for a time - there's a lot of info to study and absorb.
i took yeast id direction and inbut in 1/38 tea of yeast they flot like a boat thanks
That's good news! Am glad it worked out for you, Mike, and I bet those bagels taste better with less yeast.