The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts


davidg618's picture

There are, at least, two threads running currently whose subjects deal with "the past'":


I am especially taken with the latter, more so with the author, than with any particular book, he wrote.  Apparently, Mr. Fredrick T. Vine, was a popular and successful author, and baker at the turn of the 19th to 20th century.  A superficial web search finds at least five bread and baking books, writings by Mr. Vine, sufficently treasured that reproductions are still sold today.

Browsing through one of his,

Practical bread-making: a useful guide for all in the trade (1900)

 By Frederick T. Vine,

here is one excerpt I found particulary chuckle-inducing, considering the "hole-i-er than thou"  point-of-view many of us share.


IF there is one thing more annoying than another to the baker, it is to cut a handsome-looking loaf and to find it full of large, unsightly holes, especially when, as is generally the case, you desire it to cut extra nice.

This is no new thing, but has been with us to plague the bakers' life for many years, and very many schemes have been tried to banish it, but all to no purpose; it is still unfortuuately with us, and I am not sanguine enough to predict its banishment from reading this chapter. However, I will endeavour to reason it out to you, and give my own theories upon it, together with the many remedies I have tried and suggested for its cure."

Frederick T. Vine's writings, and hundreds of other culinary books are available at:

David G

tananaBrian's picture

I'm feeding my levain tonight, plan on baking on Sunday ...for real this time.  My wife and I are going out for dinner tomorrow since it's our 6th anniversary.  That would conflict with a late afternoon Saturday baking, so I'll bake for sure on Sunday and probably also on Monday to get caught up with The Bread Challenge.  Sunday will be Hamelmans Whole Wheat Bread w/pate fermentee and Monday will be his whole wheat bread with soaker.  I'm looking forward to trying a soaker since I haven't tried that method yet.  Too bad I don't have any properly aged home-milled whole wheat ...I'll have to depend on King Arthur as usual!

Here's the latest on the garden shed project:

Trusses going in.  I wasn't sure how I'd do this, but as it turned out, it wasn't too bad.  Uprights on the end of the shed for support, then all trusses loaded onto the walls upside down, then I flipped each upright using a 2x4 that had a piece of wood on the end with a large 'V' cut in it as a "lifter upper thingy".  Worked like a champ.


All trusses in place, uprights still in place.


Uprights removed and 2nd floor "attic storage" flooring and sides installed.  This will be where Christmas and camping stuff resides when not being used.  2nd floor door to be built into far end (ladder access only).


Eaves over gable ends built (note short ridge beams, rafters off the ends, and blocking).  Now I'm going to get all the outside siding done before I do the roof.  The upper parts of the siding will be easier to nail in without the roof sheathing in the way.
















shansen10's picture

When I bake baguettes, they are coming out too dark on the bottom, too light on top.  I have a baking stone in the floor of my oven (GE Profile gas) and I place the loaves in the perforated baguette trays in the middle of the oven.  Also, the thermometer I place inside the oven reads a lower temperature than what the digital oven temperature indicator says, by anywhere from 25 to 50 degrees. 

Any suggestions?  Thanks, I love to bake breads (especially sourdough), have been doing it consistently for 8 months and want to keep improving, to the point that someday I may feel proud enough to put up some photos!


trailrunner's picture

I left home on Feb 19th to ride across the US on my bicycle. I started in St. Augustine FL on Feb 26th and  I completed the ride on April 28th in San Diego CA. It was a wonderful time of hard work and fun and finding out how strong I am in lots of different ways. I was doing this to raise awareness of hunger in this country and called my ride Pedaling for Food. My local food bank was the recipient of all the money and food that was donated locally . They placed bins in the local Kroger stores and at my Golds gym. The local newspaper wrote up my ride and helped to increase awareness . The Facebook page for the food bank also carried info as I went along the 3100 miles. I raised almost 1400.00 and 3700 # of food. They will be able to buy 14# of food for every dollar that was collected so that makes it over 22,000 # of food. It makes my heart feel so good to be able to help in this way. I had friends around the country donate to their local food banks as well so there were far-reaching effects . 


I left my wild yeast starters Alto and Sax in the hands of my husband. He fed them a couple times....well he did try to remember. He even washed out their plastic storage boxes a couple times LOL. Anyway I got them out and fed them a couple times and voila they were back with a vengeance. I made the San Joaquin sourdough yesterday and left it overnight to retard in the fridge. I  decided to bake it in a boule shape in my heavy pots.I preshaped on the counter for 60 min. and then final shaped and placed in linen lined baskets for 45 min. I use rice flour as nothing ever sticks to is a fool proof way to release bread from the couche. This is one of  the prettiest breads I have made . I will have to reserve judgement on crumb and taste till they cool but wanted to post these pics since I am so happy with them. They snapped and crackled and the fragrance is wonderful. I love the grigne and the lovely colors from 2 different kinds of pots. I sprayed the loaves lightly before I put them in the 500 degree preheated pots. I turned the oven back to 360 when I placed them in.They baked 30 min with lid on and 15 min with lid off to 210 degrees. I will post further pics later. I am glad to be home and baking again. c

SJ San Joaquin sourdough SJ SJ

crumb: Photobucket Photobucket

hanseata's picture

I had a visit by a rep from my wholesaler, Downeast Food Distributors, who left a sample of a new gluten free bake mix to test some bread and pastry recipes. It consists of a mixture of rice flour, potato starch, sugar, salt and 5 different gums plus methylcellulose. This chemical array is necessary to enable the bread to rise at all and not fall apart.
I haven't tried it, yet, but I don't envy those poor people with celiac disease. I could go without a lot of things, but living without bread? Apart from that they have to pay a lot for gluten free goods: a 5 lb bag of bake mix costs 40 - 50 bucks - wholesale!

jlm and jp's picture
jlm and jp

My Grandfather was a baker and confectioner.He learn`t his trade in the early part of the 20th century.I have a book of his called Practical Pastry a second edition published in1898 its written by Fredk T Vine I`d like to find out more about him any ideas anyone?


hanseata's picture

Last week I had bad baking karma. On Monday I wanted to make Broetchen, the deceptively simple, crispy, white roll, as German as baguettes are French.
After several trials that never yielded the soft, fluffy, "pull-out" crumb typical for Broetchen I finally got it right with Italian 00 flour (from "Micucci" in Portland). But would simple American pastry flour work, too?
I made a beautiful looking batch, sprinkled with sesame, poppy and sunflower seeds. It went into the oven, I set the timer and started tidying the kitchen. The smell of something burning did not bother me at first, I thought it was some spill on the oven floor.
But the nasty smell grew stronger, and an anxious look into the oven showed a sheet full of charcoals instead of cute golden rolls. Even though not even half of the baking time was over, my rolls were completely burnt. The LED display showed the right temperature, so it must have been a short in the oven's electronic brain - or was it simply a bad bread day...?
Tuesday I tried a new bread - "Wheat Almond Bread", adapted from one of my German baking books. This time the oven meekly supplied the right temperature, and the loaves came out just right, golden brown, and smelling wonderful.
One was for Aaron and Lynn from Richard Parks Gallery, my cheerful part time employers. Their bread was ready to go, but I was distracted and forgot the bag in the hallway. We were not even down Cottage Street when I realized my mistake and went back.
I opened the door, and Buffy the Chow Hound ran upstairs - always a sign of a dog fleeing its owner's rightful wrath. Brown paper pieces littered the floor - but not even a crumb of the Almond Bread. It had been completely wolfed down, in less than five minutes!
I was still steaming when Richard, the best of all husbands, suggested that I might just see it from a different point of view: the Almond Bread was excellent - Dog Approved!

ejm's picture

These rings (based on the recipe for 'Greek Sesame Galettes (Κουλούρια)' in "Mediterranean Street Food" by Anissa Helou) were baked in the barbecue.

Sesame Twisted Rings - May 2010


It was hot in the kitchen. It was noon. But I mixed the dough anyway. And because it was so ridiculously hot , it was ready to be baked by dinnertime. We baked the rings in the barbecue.

We had the rings with grilled pork, beet tops, green beans and oven-roasted potatoes last night. And this morning, we had them for breakfast with Monforte "Don's Blue" ash chèvre and really good coffee. I can’t decide which way was more delicious.

Many thanks to Anissa Helou for this wonderful recipe. (I have just one small quibble: what is it with recipes that do not include water in the list of ingredients?! I hate having to read the instructions to find out how much water to use.)


(further details and my take on Helou's recipe: Sesame Twisted Rings)

Marni's picture

My wrist was declared healed about two weeks ago, and I am thrilled to be able to stretch and fold (both in the bowl and out) and shape two handed again!

Here is one of loaves I made first:

This is the 1,2,3 formula with the addition of dried rosemary which I soak in warmed olive oil.  I add both the rosemary and oil to the dough late in the first mixing.  This is one of my favorite breads.

txfarmer's picture

I posted a few days ago asking why my lye pretzels are not dark enough, after much reading and some experimenting, I think I figured out why. After I mixed up the lye solution, I didn't let it sit and completely dissolve, so the solution was too weak. The first time, I mixed and dipped the dough right away. This time, I mixed up a 3.5% lye solution (between 3% and 4% is good, the higher the darker, but don't go beyond 4%) with room temperature water, let the solution sit at a safe place for 15 minutes, slowly stir for the first few minutes. The solution heated up at first, then started to become clear and cooled down. After that, dip the dough for 30sec each, bingo, this time I got the color and shine I want. The devil is in the details huh?!


Also made some other shapes, I think they look cute with wide open scoring marks.

The recipe is from Jeffrey Hamelman's Bread, I did make one change: after reading a suggestion on the web, I used milk instead of water in the formula, I do think it tastes more authentic that way. I loved how the pretzels tasted and looked when I stayed at Germany a few years ago, crispy and hard shell, soft and chewy crumb, and a special "lye pretzel" taste. It's decidely different from American style soft pretzels boiled in baking soda solution (which I also like), good to split open and make a sandwich with. I do need to work on my shaping techniques to get rid of the unsightly holes in the crumb.

I have a whole lot of lye left, will be practicing making pretzels for a while!


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