September 21, 2023 - 6:52am
Panettone Universal Method Calculator
I quickly put together a calculator tailored to the primo impasto which calculates the variables of The Universal Method as devised by Thomas Teffri-Chambelland.
I have been devising my own formulas and was interested in seeing how they stacked up according to his method.
Excluding dough inclusions / add-ins / of the homogenous dough:
Su% = Percentage of sugar in dough
Hu% = Percentage of water content in dough
Cu = [Su%/Hu%]*100 - Sugar concentration in water content
https://staffoflife.wordpress.com/links/universal-method/
UM Calculator (Preview Version) | Italian Baking (wordpress.com)
[Updated : Jan 06, 2023]
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Thank you! That will be very helpful. How is the panettone going?
Regards, Sue
Haven't made many, my primary goal has been to focus on achieving a pH above 5 in the primo impasto. No joy yet!
I have however achieved a very low TTA / acid load without compromising on activity.
I've actually mostly been doing sourdough pizza with my LM!
Cheers,
Michael
Hi Michael!
Did you resolve this? pH>5 in primo impasto. What was the issue?
Best Regards
Per
Not yet but I think I might be close.
I have however found a workable routine which is less intensive, more convenient and supplies consistently excellent leavening power. In short, I have found a way to make Panettone making more approachable for all.
This alone hasn't fixed this acidity issue however.
I am starting to think about this problem in a new way and I'm sure I'm on the right path...
Michael
Can't wait to hear more!
Hi Michael. Have you been able to discover the culprit causing the acidification in your primo? And I would love to hear more about this workable routine you have mentioned. I am embarking on my panettone journey once again with a lot resolve and I am catching up on the recent developments. TTC seems to be putting quite a lot of emphasis on the primo having a pH > 5 which I see many struggle with.
Hi there,
Pinpointing, it's all very much in the hands of the operator. The acidification in in the primo impasto is squarely the result of mismanagement of the LM. There's no escaping that. It's always the LM! Analysing the problem, clearly there is an over expression of the bacteria. Either that is at the expense of yeast or it isn't, in which case there is an over expression of both yeast and LAB in the LM.
A pH above 5 is important, because the dough structural integrity and fermentation are at the mercy of acidity. I believe if all the parameters are consistently in place, then the primo will acidify to the right level. Personally, I would draw the line at pH 4.8 as the minimum pH for a fully leaved primo impasto.
I can't recall specifically the approach I was referring to at the time. I believe it was along the lines of ensuring maximised leaving in a convenient process, which then would be a good entry point for the typical 3 refreshes. I continue to play around with different ideas and techniques. Lately I am seeing the benefit of keeping the LM in water all the time; overnight maintenance feeds and refreshes, as per Morandin.
I have been attempting to put together some sound conceptual rules which can be used to help ensure that any LM needing attention will be steered in the right direction. I will aim to post details about what I’m thinking in due course.
Michael
Thank you Michael - I'm sure a lot of work has gone into that. What are your thoughts on sourbakernz's LM zucchero?
Lance
1. Yeast water = one failed attempt
2. Livito Madre = many fails including a incomplete blog post.
Unicorn: Mystical creatures impossible to capture.
Hi Michael, Thanks for providing this calculator, it's very handy!
I'm in the (very) early stages of attempting sourdough panettoni and have been pouring over TT-C's book... and I'm curious about how relevant you view the universal method he describes. In the book he talks about how most recipes have a Cu of between 30 and 40 (with a maximum of 50), but based on my calculations, the Cu of Giorilli's recipe (which I know you have recommended for newbies) comes out to 52 when you factor in both doughs. I would think this would make it a difficult dough to work with, but it's said to be very forgiving...
Am I misunderstanding the calculations (I'm calculating the whole recipe and I see your calculator is only for the primo impasto), or do you think they aren't relevant to an established recipe like his?
From experience I have always found Giorilli's recipe to be more forgiving than Massari's.
Giorilli's primo impasto has a lower sugar concentration and more free water. Also I have found adding water in the second typical of Massari's, to be a little dicey, especially if the acidity is too high.
But sure you can find recipes in Thomas's book that feature lower levels of Cu overall.
While the universal method is a useful way of looking at things, it's worth noting how the actual sugar concentration decreases as fermentation proceeds. Therefore a primo impasto with a lower Cu and is a greater portion of the total formula may be preferable.
[Dec 20, 2023]
New version - Now allows for the ability to calculate any dough; primo impasto / final impasto etc., with expanded list of ingredients.
No add-ins listed as they do not contribute to the Su, Hu and Cu values.
Universal Method Calculator | Italian Baking (wordpress.com) DL
New preview version with comparison feature.
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Use online or download: UM Calculator (Preview) | Italian Baking (wordpress.com)
Thanks for this Michael. How is the weight of solids calculated? The recipe section in the back of TCC book has a column for Weight (g) and Solids (g), where the Flour is (weight) 1000 g and (solids) 860 g. Or the Starter is (weight) 500 g and (solids) 287 g. How is this calculated? I've read the chapter over several times and it's just assumed but never explained, like several things in the book. I also have an early edition and finding all kinds of typos. Thanks for any help!