Weak starter in warm climate
Hi,
I have a 50 day old starter that I have been maintaining at 1:2:2 every 12 hours:
25g starter
25g rye flour (Bob's red mill organic dark rye)
25g all purpose flour (normal unbleached)
50g water (boiled)
I live in a warm climate (29-32°C by day and 27-29°C by night, tropical weather with no seasonal changes). Previously at 30-40 days old the starter was reliably doubling every 4-6 hours.
At around day 40, in order to reduce the amount of discard (as I only bake once every 3 days or so and use only 70g of starter each time), I reduced the feeding to 20g of starter, still at a 1:2:2 ratio and the same flour mix. However, the starter began to weaken and only managed to double in 12-14 hours.
I have since tried the following:
1. go back to 25g of starter at the same ratio
2. reduce the amount of flour and water per feed (so 25g of starter at 1:1.5:1.5)
3. Increase the proportion of rye flour vs all purpose flour
4. Ignoring the clock and doing peak to peak feeding
However, none of the above has managed to change anything and my starter is still currently doubling in about 12-14 hours.
Is there anything which I can to do revive the starter? I have read about using grapes etc.; should that be the direction to take? Should I give up and create a new starter?
Appreciate any help and comments; thank you!
the amount of starter being fed? You can go as low as 5g of starter and feed 25g each flour and water, 1:5:5 ratios. This should reduce the initial acid in the fed starter and boost yeast. Reduce and feed again as soon as it peaks an starts to indent to level out. You can also reduce the water in the starter to make it thicker to slow fermentation in crazy warm temps. Flour is food, water provides transportation in the starter.
Another way to slow or control fermentation would be to add salt to the starter. I'm a little rusty on the amounts but it must be about 3 to 4 % of the flour amount. Search salted starter or salt sourdough culture for more details. I would not suddenly add salt to a very acid starter, as the salt % can increase rapidly, perhaps too much when combined with acid.
Try using a small amount of starter to feed or thickening up the starter to almost damp crumbs before going to salt.
Thanks, given that the starter is already weak, just wondering if it is a bit counter-intuitive to slow fermentation through reducing starter / adding salt?
Higher feeding ratios make the starter "stronger"! I think because the acid is properly diluted, and the yeast have a head start in this situation.
too little food for the amount of starter. 1:1:1 is way too little flour food for those temps. The acid builds and the starter slips into a passive mode waiting for more food. That what happens in nature. Just try it. The problem with high temps is that fermentation goes too fast for you to keep up with equal feeding ratios. In order for the starter to survive the lack of food, it goes quiet. Taste the 100% hydration starter, if it tastes like wet flour with little or no sourdough aromas, then it has just been fed or is overfed. Very Sour tasting starters tend to be underfed or ready to feed. Tasting is one simple way of finding out where the starter stands in the feeding cycle.
Weak in yeast? Yes but not in bacteria. Bacteria tend to alway outnumber the yeast. They protect the yeast. To increase the yeast population, you have to feed enough flour to raise the pH in the starter, out of the yeasts sleepy zone. 5g is about the lowest you can go with a sample of starter to feed and keep the starter going.
A one to ten feeding ratio (of flour) is a good kick in the butt for the yeast to get going (5:50:50) takes a bit of time for the mixture to peak but good in making lots of yeast. Return to a lower or stiffer ratio after the starter has peaked and give it about 10x original volume head space to rise. Mark it,Time it. A one to ten feeding is often quiet for the first 4 to 6 hours, then starts to dome and rise steadily. So I were to give it a one to five or one to ten feeding, I'd feed it before going to bed and then look at it in the morning. You can split the starter and try both types of feedings. Then compare them. With each repeated feeding at peak, the yeast will increase meaning the time it takes to peak will shorten.
Thank you for the detailed explanation! I will give it a go.
the 1:3:3 feeding. And then with that same batch of slow same starter try 1:5:5 and 1:10:10 racing the three starter feeds at the same time. Adds to the fun of things.
Oh, and have a recipe handy to make a loaf. Certainly you've noticed that loaves ferment fast in your tempeatures.
Once you get the starter fed and back up to par, you might want to consider storing it in the refrigerator too. I only bake once a week or so, so I store mine in the fridge. Less maintenance and waste.
I found this article helpful.
https://www.theperfectloaf.com/store-sourdough-starter/
After the first 1:3:3 feeding, the starter peaked at only 75% rise in 12 hours and currently it is about 8 hours after the second 1:3:3 feeding, and it has only risen 30% and started to collapse. Should I take the 30% as the new peak and continue to feed at 1:3:3 in 12 hour intervals?
Not too sure as 30% seems a bit low but it has already started to collapse (flat at the top, no longer domed)
to make a soft dough instead of a batter. Got a photo?
The starter might have risen and fallen and started to rise a second time (and fall a second time) in those 8 hours. Were you checking on it often?
Thanks, as I check hourly, I don't think it rose and fell a second time, I will reduce to feeding ratio to 1:3:2 and give it a go. Bottom blue line is the height after feeding, top blue line is 100% rise; the starter peaked somewhere in the middle
Second photo: 75% rise after first feed
First photo: 30% rise after second feed
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