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Help - Hooch over night on new starter

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

Help - Hooch over night on new starter

Hello TFL!

I am new to this site - I haven't been able to master Sourdough and it is a big goal of mine! Right before bed, I added 100g of Whole Wheat flour to 150g of lukewarm water. This morning it had hooch on the top which I think means it ate too fast? 

Now, I know why. We live in the south and don't have our air on super high so it is usually around 78-85 degrees in my house. 

My question is - Do I need to feed it more often? or change the ratio of water to flour? 

Once it is established I want to put it in the fridge so I only feed it once a week but I thought it was too "young" to do that right away. 

Any thoughts would be appreciated! I have tried and failed at sourdough so many times but I am determined to make it work this time. 

Thank you!

clevins's picture
clevins

You'll want to feed 2x per day.  You don't need quite that much flour and water btw. 

I used this guide and it worked well:

https://www.theperfectloaf.com/7-easy-steps-making-incredible-sourdough-starter-scratch/

  • Use filtered water or spring water (the kind you get in a jug, not distilled water though). Tap has chlorine in it. You can use it but chlorine kills yeast and bacteria so it inhibits things. 
  • Use any flour but if you can, whole wheat or rye seems to go quicker. 
  • Don't panic, stop and start etc. Just keep to a good, regular schedule. Plan on it taking 5-7 days until you have something you can bake with. More than time, look for a starter that doubles consistently. 

Your temps are perfect for a starter actually, though of course I'd keep it out of sunlight. 

Abe's picture
Abe

Is it clear or murky? 

What stage is your starter? 

mariana's picture
mariana

Hello!

Was it really hooch? Did you taste it? Was it acidic and boozy to taste?

What was your goal when you mixed 100g flour and 150g water? To have a very liquid starter? Is there a recipe that you are following? 

Depending on your flour, sometimes 150g of water is too much for 100g of flour, it will separate eventually, flour releases the excess of water. It is not that flour is digested by enzymes or microbes, it is simply too much water for that amount of that flour. Dry flours and strong flours bind more water than weak and moist flours.

Separation of the liquid part from the dough part is not a problem and will not affect your starter development. Some starters are so liquid that they have 10 times more water than flour in them, others are so stiff, they look like flour coated crumbs. But they all work and leaven bread dough. Some starters are fed every three hours, while others - once a day ot once every two days. It really depends on the recipe for the starter that you chose.

Just stick to your recipe or follow the one clevins linked in his comment. It reliably makes great bread as shown in that baker's blog. Any recipe for a starter from a good baker will work, for as long as you follow it.

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

haha, I did NOT taste it. It looked gross and smelled sour. 

My goal was just to start a starter lol. I was following Joshua Weissman on YouTube. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTAiDki7AQA

I think I am going to switch to the on Clevins posted. It is similar to the one I was using just with less water. Especially since I am using WW and not Rye. My grocery store was out of rye and I didn't think it would make that much of a difference. Once I'm out, I will switch to rye to see if it makes a difference. 

clevins's picture
clevins

When making a starter according to that link because I had some and was out of rye as you are. Worked fine.

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Hooch, as the name suggests, should smell of alcohol, if it just smells sour, it is likely just water separation.

clevins's picture
clevins

that any starter recipe from a good baker will work. I like the one I linked not because it's special but for two reasons. Maurzio is a very successful sourdough-focused baker, so I trust his recommendation and twice a day feedings get you to pay attention to the starter without being onerous. 

Abe's picture
Abe

If there is no activity, just separation, then there's little point in feeding twice a day. It sounds to me like it's just separation. Thicken it up and feed according to the rhythm of the starter. One doesn't need to follow a "recipe". Flour + Water + Warmth + Time. Simple. Doesn't even need any weighing. 

clevins's picture
clevins

Many starters will show a burst of activity, then quiet down. The initial burst is from the bacteria that's in the flour which we don't actually want. As the yeast establishes itself, it changes the environment to a more acidic one which these bacteria don't like, so they die off. But the yeast is still a relatively small population, so activity subsides. 

Keep going. I *might* skip one feeding but don't stop feeding it for days. 

The other things is that activity is heavily influenced by temperature. If you're in the US right now, getting heat isn't an issue. If you're in Australia, it's much cooler. Try to keep the starter where it's in the 70s to low 80s (F) if you can. 

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

Thank you for all the advice! I will definitely look at the site you shared and use all your advice. I was just using tap water but I will use filtered from now on. 

 It definitely had a huge burst in activity and then died down so I suppose that is good! The link you shared is similar to what I was using (Joshua Weissman on YouTube) but I believe both used Rye flour and I am using Whole Wheat. 

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Just a word of advice for those who don't have well water (and even some who do). Virtually all cities add chlorine to their water.

You don't want chlorine in your sourdough!

There are a few ways to get rid of the chlorine. One is to just put water in a bucket and leave it on the counter overnight. Another is to boil water and use the boiled water after it cools. Distilled water should also work.

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

It was murky and a brand new starter. I followed instructions I found on YouTube. The starter was less than 12 hours old and I was so surprised to see a liquid on top! I believe you are right and it is just separation. definitely going to use less water as it has happened every single day. 

I'm not sure if my baking intuition is strong enough to not follow a recipe just yet, but that is the goal! 

squattercity's picture
squattercity

a few thoughts:

1. it's pretty much impossible that your mix of flour and water developed hooch on day one. If fermentation were that easy & quick, we'd all be making our own whisky.

2. So Mariana's probably right: it's likely separation bc the flour couldn't fully absorb so much water.

3. it helped me to follow some known procedures. Like clevins, I used Maurizio's as a reference, but I combined it with this one, from tartine bread experiment, which I found equally helpful: http://tartine-bread.blogspot.com/2013/02/9-days.html

4. I'm a big believer in whole rye flour for starters.

5. It took a few weeks for my starter to be consistently active. And, to be honest, it took months for me to truly begin to understand it. I've baked with it for almost 2 years now and I'm still learning.

Rob

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

1. EXCELLENT point! haha I never thought of that! 

2. I agree! 

3. Thank you for the additional resource! I will reference both of those for sure. 

4. My store was out but I will keep an eye out. Does it have more yeast-causing bacteria? or yeast in general?

5. Thanks for the encouragement. I tend to get frustrated after my first batch of dense not-sour-tasting bread and quit. I am using this as a lesson in patience. My starter and I are hopefully in it for the long haul. <3

thebakingbrunette's picture
thebakingbrunette

Thanks to everyone's help and input, my starter is THRIVING!
 

clevins's picture
clevins

Keep feeding etc on schedule. If it subsides, just keep going. People often get discouraged when a starter dips in activity and stop but if you keep going it will be baking ready in about a week. Mine changed from a grassy, hay-like smell to a sweeter smell and easily doubled when fed... and it was then ready.

rondayvous's picture
rondayvous

Yep, he has a good start to a starter. It can take weeks for sourdough to stabilize into a good working mother.

mariana's picture
mariana

It's a beautiful starter. Congratulations! Your hard work paid off. 

Happy baking with it!