The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Star Anise instead of Anise Seed & Zest vs Orange Extract

Anonymous baker's picture
Anonymous baker (not verified)

Star Anise instead of Anise Seed & Zest vs Orange Extract

I am working on a Rye sourdough and need 1 tsp of Anise Seed. However I only have whole Star Anise (and no spice grinder). How do I get the flavour of Anise into the bread? 

I have thought of two options. Let me know which one you like or offer another. 

1. Soak some Star Anise (how many?) in 400g boiling water (this is how much water is in the whole recipe) and wait for it to cool before fishing them out. 

2. Boil some Star Anise in a little water and add the essence to the rest of the water. If you like this option can you advise quantities so I end up with 400g water in the final recipe.

 

I also need the zest of one orange but only have pure orange extract. How many drops would I put it? 

 

The recipe also asks for flour.... Just kidding :-D

 

Here is the recipe http://breadtopia.com/sourdough-rye-bread/

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

grind them.  Do it all the time when I run out of seeds.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

...and what's more I don't think the recipe asks for ground seeds, just seeds. 

Thanks Dabrownman. 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

two things.  Toasting them to heat up the volatile oils in the seeds and then coarsely grinding them.  Anise seeds are small so not grinding them isn't horrible but half of their flavor will not be part of the mix if they are not cracked open.  I don't like grinding sees to powder though.  I don't want it all to be some mixed background taste and aroma.  When I bite into a coarsely cracked seed, like caraway, anise, coriander or fennel I want to know what it is on its own too.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

The 3 spices are as follows...

  • Fennel Seed: 8 grams, 1 Tbs.
  • Anise Seed: 2 grams, 1 tsp.
  • Caraway Seed: 3 grams, 1 tsp.

I like caraway but I'm thinking fennel & anise will be too much. I like coriander in Rye and think it adds an interesting flavour. The recipe calls for 13g spices. Can I go for caraway, fennel and coriander? Do you think it'll make a good combo? What proportions to compliment each other?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

I use caraway and nigella seeds in my deli rye bread. Customers seem to like it, although I do have a couple of people who don't like caraway and want only the nigella. Others want extra of both, so there you go. Personal taste!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I've just made the dough and completed the gluten formation. Instead of 245g whole rye and 245g bread flour, I swapped the bread flour for 200g whole wheat and 45g bread flour. 

With the spices I've gone for 2g coriander, 4g fennel and 6g caraway (I love caraway). 

For the orange zest I've done 2-3 tsp of pure orange extract. 

Made a lovely aromatic (as you can imagine) dough. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Wow, that seems like a lot of orange extract! You'll have to tell us how it turns out.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

2-3 tablespoons = the zest of 1 orange. 

I thought this was too much so I went for 2-3 tsp. It did smell strong! Hope I haven't spoiled it. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Yeah, I always wonder if I should believe what I read on the web. This reference here says half a teaspoon of extract for every tablespoon of fresh zest. I don't know if you'd even get a whole tablespoon from one orange!

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I've made a fruit bowl 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

You've made something new, unique and different. You should name it after yourself and say, "I totally meant to do that!" :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

myself but not sure if I make it like manufacturers do.  It started this way:   I needed some orange liqueur to mix a margarita but couldn't find any so in order to get that orange flavour, I grated an orange and dropped the zest into a full tequila bottle.  At first it floated, but eventually sank to the bottom.  The whole bottle contains only the zest from one orange but it smells and tastes great.  (Extracts are often obtained using alcohol.)  So.... would one cup of tequila work instead of 2-3 Tbs?  (....Ooo, I might try this on a baked fruit cake!)  

Using my experience, I can see why the web amounts vary.  I also have frozen zest I've taken off oranges because it seems when I have oranges with nice aromatic peels, I don't need the zest.  When I need zest, no oranges in sight. 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

Made me a bit drunk. It was strong but I think due to the strong flour and other flavours it blended very well. Lovely balance and a lovely aromatic dark rye loaf. 

See photos below...

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

it caraway and the other half equal parts of fennel, coriander and anise.  Equal parts of all 3 would likely be fine as well and 12 grams total makes the equality work at 4 g each.

It comes down to what ever you like.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

1:2:3 coriander:fennel:caraway

I started to do 3 equal parts by weight but I saw that coriander would be quite a lot this way. I like fennel but don't want it to over power the bread and I think you can never put too much caraway in a Rye bread. I love it. So 1:2:3 it was. The orange I had to guess. One website said 2-3 tablespoons of pure orange extract = 1 orange zest. Going from the smell it seemed a bit too much. So I've gone for 2 tsp + some spillage :) You can really smell the orange and I think it will be enough.

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Check out this link. Apparently they are different critters entirely but can be interchanged when ground, as long as you account for the much stronger taste of the star anise. You can also use fennel seed.

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

I'll check it out. I really should invest in a spice grinder.

So star anise and anise seed are different but may be substituted for each other. Interesting ! 

Lechem's picture
Lechem (not verified)

A delicious rye loaf and the orange isn't over powering at all. Got the balance of flavours just right. Of course this was my intention all the time Lazy Loafer :) 

I didn't score the loaf. It was a very wet loaf and thought the scoring would be lost anyway. Came out nice and rustic. Due to the molasses the crust is a wonderful caramel colour. Crumb is soft and is darker than the photo.