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This is how I finally have open crumbs and ears using high heat (500F)

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teketeke's picture
teketeke

This is how I finally have open crumbs and ears using high heat (500F)

Updated 9/29/2010

Updated: 9/15/2010 I want to introduce Edwin's recipe( pipo1000) that is absolutely phenomenal. 

http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/recipe-for-80-hydration-baguette/

 Next time, I want to try dragon trail pattern for my baguette. That is fantastic!

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19118/how-i-finally-have-open-crumb-and-ear-without-pouring-water-or-using-high-heat-500f#comment-134443

 

 I will thank you all of TFLERS who gave me great comments to me. I hope my recipe will help you out or give you some good ideas to have a nice baguette that you desire!   And I applogize what I often edit my recipes  that cause trouble to you have gotten bunch of e-mail of my recipes  that is very annnoying.  I am sorry.(bow)

Hello, Everyone. I introduce myself a little bit. I am a foreigner (Japanese)  who can't speak or write English very well.  My husband who is American said " My wife barely speaks English!"  Well, It is true, I am not a big fan of talking to people.Thats why my Enlgish hasn't improved yet.   I will appreciate if you correct my English when you find.  And I love dogs!!! :) I have 2 dogs who are both of two half Chihuahua and half poodle a brother (2 year old) Chi-chi, and his sister (1year old) Cookie although their mothers are different.  I have lived in Newyork with my husband and 2 children my son (12years old) and my daugher ( 4 years old) for 6 years.

Back to the topic, For several month,I have been into baking french bread as much as my family call me " FRENCH BREAD HEAD".:) But I broke the inner glass of the oven once which means " NO MORE POURING WATER IN THE OVEN". then next time I broke its element twice so that I can't preheat 500F anymore. I had had no luck to bake nice baguettes that have nice ears and glooms. 

Thanks to RobynNZ who gave me some information to make steam without pouring water, even though I couldn't try it because it costs too much for me, and I finally figure it out on my way. Cover 2 blocks with foil and place them on the second lowest rack.  That is it. It is very easy and keep the tempareture stable.

 

This is how I bake baguettes.

80% hydartion

 

And, This is my recipe: 1 baguette ( Approximately 40cm long)

Preferment (Day 1)

Yeast         1/4tsp    (0.8g)

cold water   76g

 All purpose flour   95g 

 

 Final dough (Day 2)

Yeast                  1/4tsp (0.8g)

 cold water          76g

 All purpose flour   95g

Salt                          3g

*Barley malt powder         1g ( you need it when your flour doesn't contain barley malted flour)

 

Tools: A baguette pan, 2 blocks covered with foil for lower oven,

              Parchment paper

I strongly recommend to read this link before you make this baguette or any baguettes or any bread!  I got these important information from Vogel who is one of TFLERS. I really apprecicate your help. Thank you, Vogel.

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/82234-demo-proving-bread/

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15368/second-rise-proofing-tests

I start to shape when my test-dough rises about 1.1 times in bulk and I prepare to score my baguette when the test-dough rises 1.3 times in bulk.

           

 

 

1 Mix the preferment  and sit for 1 -2  hours at room temperature ( When you see 2 big holes in the surface, it is ready to put it in a refirgerator. You don't have to wait until 1.5 times in bulk )

 2 hours later 

→Mix again, Refrigerator for over night.( about 12 hours in total)

 

2 Next morning:  Add the final dough: yeast and cold water into the preferment→ Mix→ Put the rest of ingredient: flour and salt

 

3 Put the dough in a food processor to run for 5 second until combine.

 Take the dough out of the FP

 

 4 Let's knead: Stretch and fold!

 and turn the dough angle 90 degree, and repeat and repeat.... (around 1-2 minutes) You will feel the dough has gluten development. Don't do too much!  * I think that you can stroke it too.

 

5. Put the dough in a greased bowl and covere it with a plastic wrap.

6.  Strech and fold -3hours fementation.

  0:45 ---2 folds in a bowl

  1:30----2 folds  in a bowl.

 2:15 ---- 2 folds  in a bowl.

 

 ---There are 2 fold above-----

 7. 3:00 ( 3 hours later) shape: Take the dough out of the container , degas lightly ( patting the dough 2 or 3 times)

 

  Pull the both sides from the center very gently.

 

 Using a dough cutter, lift the edge on your side( bottom) and...

 

bring it to the center.

 

 Next, Lift the edge on your over side ( top)

bringing it to your side ( bottom ) and pinch very lightly

 take the seam line onto the center..

 Take the dough on your over side (top) toward the dough on your side ( bottom) and pinch very well.

 

   Roll the dough using a dough cutter.

 Place the dough onto a parchment paper.

9. Proof for 20-30 minutes.  Please read this to get the right time for proofing.( 26-28℃ or 79-82F)

http://forums.egullet.org/index.php?/topic/82234-demo-proving-bread/

10. Scoring and spray water to the pan, the back of the pan, and the parchmentpaper is not on dough: I don't spray the dough, I am avoiding to spary water to the dough now.

 Prepare Flour, Greased razor with shortening, Spray water bottle, and the ziplock is shortening inside( I was squeezing into the cuts after scoring to have ears and glooms. )

 

11. Bake for 7 minutes at 470F → Decrease 450F bake for 3  minutes→ Take out  the pan and the parchment paper  →Decrease 450F and bake 10 more minutes →Shut off the oven and open the door for a few second and leave the baguette for 5 minutes. 

 

 

 

 ----- Let's make a pan for baguette at home--------

You need---

 a) Cardboard after using wrapping paper.

 b) Foil

 c) Stapler

Let's make it----

1) Get a cardboard after using wrapping paper.

2) Cut the cardboard in a half and cut more ajust to fit for your bagutte dough. Do the same thing for another one.

3) Cover the cardboard with foil. Do the same thing for another one.

4) Staple onto the foiled cardboards both ends and the middle.

 You can slide it into the oven!!

 !! The side which you slide it in must be really smooth and flat like this picture.!!

Now (9/27/2010) I upgraded the homemade pan:

 I made a lot of holes for the dough to breath when you place the dough onto the canvas or cloth.

 

 

Even High hydration dough will keep the shape until you slide it into the oven. Don't forget to score very close to straight in the center that is for withour using a stored bagutte pan that you can put it in the oven.( keep the dough round! When you draw the line diagonally a lot, it will spread over the side and the dough will be flatten. Be careful! * Note* When you use a stored pan, you better score diagonally slightly.

 

-------OR-------

  When you use a cloth for such high hydration dough, I suggest you to have some nice supports for the dough like these pictures above)

Result : 0.4% yeast ( Poolish 1/8tsp, final dough 1/8tsp)

Result 0.8% yeast ( poolish 1/4tsp, final dough 1/4tsp )

 

 

 

 

 I recommend these recipes below.  Thank you, dmsnyder and Shiao-Ping and Tyarmer.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/8524/philippe-gosselin039s-pain-%C3%A0-l039ancienne-according-peter-reinhart-interpretted-dmsnyder-m by dmsnyder

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas by Shiao-Ping

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18813/poolish-baguette-sunflower-seeds by Tyarmer

spsq's picture
spsq

Welcome, French bread head!


 


BEAUTIFUL crumb!

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Welcome teketeke,


Those baguettes look gorgeous! It's hard to see how you could improve on the crumb - just congratulate yourself right now.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

wwiiggggiinnss's picture
wwiiggggiinnss (not verified)

What advice did RobynNZ give you to make steam without pouring water?


Beautiful crumb.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Here is Robyn's advice. :) and Thank you for your reply :) that makes me happy.


Teketeke I'm sorry to hear of your troubles with your oven. I have an old but reliable oven and not wanting steam to damage it I use a large roasting tin to cover my bread at the beginning of the bake. There are grooves around the bottom and I add water to the outer groove and spray the sides and lid. As it is made of very thin material I do not preheat it. I find it safer to use without preheating too. Depending on what I am baking I generally remove the lid after about 15 minutes.


Khalid (MeBake) has posted photos of his set-up, he has even added a baking stone to the lid of his.  Take a look:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18499/best-crust-and-crumb-yet-me


Others use a stainless steel bowl (search  on TFL using "Susan's magic bowl"), but for baguettes, something longer is needed. I hope you can find something suitable for your oven to cover your baguettes, to provide steamy conditions at the beginning of the bake.


Have you seen Shiao-Ping's post on the baguettes she made from the Mandarin translation of the bookバゲットの技術 ? 


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas


I am looking forward to shopping for bread baking books when I am next in Japan (and eating lots of yummy bread too!)


Robyn

teketeke's picture
teketeke

spsq,


THANK YOU!!! Yes, I am " French bread head " :P

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your compliment !


To have nice crumb, It is very important to do 2 or 3 times letter-folds  on a long cold fermention in my history of french bread head. And as TXfarmer said( Thank you, TXfarmer),  I also don't strech or pat the dough much while shaping. I use a bread cutter to shape mostly because the dough is really wet.


 


:)

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 


I baked my baguettes today again,  but I am testing how the dough with molasses or malt vinegar take effect.  I tried some condiments in it.


 


Only molasses 2g : less holes


Molasses2g + white wine vinegar1g =a lot of little small holes


Honey 2g + Malt vinegar1g = chewier than molasses + malt vinegar, thin crust,


Molasses 2g +Malt vinegar1g= thin crispy crust, more holes than any others,


Only salt =Silky texture, natural sweetness, little sourness, less holes than molasses + malt vinegar, thicker crust than molasses or honey + malt vinegar.


 


My husband likes "Only salt " best.


My neighbor who loves French bread likes "Molasses +Malt vinegar" and " Only salt", so do I. They are different but it is refreshing.


My kids prefer " Molasses + Malt vinegar".


 


I read about Malt vinegar has starch which gives chewy texture, and I can see " Molasses + Malt vinegar " will have a lot of holes. I don't know why .... I am not scientist, and I can't figure it out by my little brain :p    I see that there are a lot of people who are very knowledgeable and intelligent here. Sometimes those comments make me sleepy...


 


 


 


Today's test:


 


 


 1) Only salt: add 4g water in total which means 82% hydration.


 2) Only malt vinegar 2g + add 2g water in total which means 82% hydration.


     


 Result: Both of two dough's firmness are the same. They are so sticky to handle with.


              The dough with molasses and malt vinegar are softer than them.


 


             I think that the time of  poolish's autolyze is 12 hours is the best. I felt that  fresh silky texture from " only salt" disappeared today.


 


I prefer 80% hydration bread to 82% one. They were too wet, but they had very thin crust. I wonder if I leave the baguettes in the oven for 5 minutes after finishing baking that Dmsnyder mentioned. Anyway, I can't tell the answer, because I left the dough 3.5hours after mixing the final dough instead of 3 hours.


 More and more I have many questions whenever I bake baguettes.


Left: Only salt


Right: Malt vinegar




Here is the way that I do before scoring. I put some shortening on the blade, and I squeeze the shortening in the edges after scoring.



and the result above:

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Absolutely wonderful! 


I look forward to more of your posts....

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you so much for your reply :) I showed this comment to my husband right away because I was too happy! and I am still happy :)


I will post some of my favortie japanese style bread recipes here.:P


Thank you again,


teketeke

evth's picture
evth

Beautiful loaves. New to bread baking but already hooked. I'm going to bravely try this. Merci!

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your compliment,and I am looking forward to seeing your baguette's picture. :)


By the way, you might not understand Japanese even though you translate by google, You can understand how I bake the baguettes on the site because there are a lot of pictures. The shaping process is changed a little bit. I am not updating about the shaping process because I have no pictures to describe for. It is using a bread cutter to shape everything instead of using fingers and don't touch the dough too much, just very gentle....


here is my baguette's recipe in Japan ↓


   http://cookpad.com/recipe/1168515


 


Good luck, evth


teketeke

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Beautiful Bread!


You know when Professor Calvel was in his prime in his later years, some of his best students were from Japan. Today there are many very high quality chefs that make excellent French style bread in Japan.


Eric

teketeke's picture
teketeke

:) I didn't know the Professor Calvel so then I jumped up to the google and there he is:


Raymond Calvel (before 1930 - 2005) was a bread expert and professor of baking at ENSMIC in Paris, France. Calvel has been credited with creating a revival of French-style breadmaking as well as developing an extensive body of research on improving breadmaking technique, including studies of the differences between European and American wheat flour and the development of the autolyse, a hydration rest early in the mixing and kneading process designed to relax gluten in the dough and simplify the kneading process, thereby rendering the dough more extensible and easier to shape.


He was Julia Child and Simone Beck's teacher for the bread chapter of Mastering the Art of French Cooking volume 2, as well as an advisor to the Bread Bakers Guild of America during its founding and early competitive efforts in the early 1990s. Calvel also wrote the book Le goût du pain (translated into English in 2001 as The Taste of Bread) as a summation of his work.


I learn every comments from you.  And, it will be coincidence, I see a Japanese student girl on The Bread Baker's Apprentice. :P I noticed after buying the book.


I will learn to read your post!!  Thank you so much for your reply!!!


Sincerely,


teketeke

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Teketeke,


I'm glad you enjoyed the reference to Prof. Calvel. He is the source for much of the modern resurgence of French bread making in the world today. I have great respect for his work. It is interesting to me that he was so open with his methods and understanding with anyone who was interested in making better bread.


I also have that same book (BBA) and studied it carefully early on in my attempt to understand how good breads are made. Peter Reinhart has published several other books since this one that are equally helpful. I especially like his "Whole Grain Breads". He examines a process to extract flavor from whole grain flours that is beneficial to learn.


I look forward to seeing your posts and I am enjoying your open style of writing. This is a global forum, no need to apologize  for your use of a second language. We are learning from you. Thank you!


Eric

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Deleted by teketeke.

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Teketeke


Glad to hear you came up with a steaming system that works for you. 


It is fun experimenting isn't it! Your baguette look delicious.


Looking forward to seeing some of your Japanese breads here, from what I've seen of your various breads on Cookpad, TFLers are going to be interested in your formula.


Robyn

teketeke's picture
teketeke

RobynNZ,


Thank you for everything, Robyn!!


I wouldn't post here without your help!!! I have no confidence to expose my poor English to everyone who are knowlegdeable.


Well, I will try to post other my recipes that my family loves.


Thank you so much,


teketeke

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I have to say something... even though my native language is not English (I am Brazilian),  I think your written English is excellent!


I could only wish some of our foreign graduate students in the lab had similar skills with the language


 


We foreigners can make a few mistakes every once in a while and no one will be mad...    ;-)


 


(at least that's what I hope for!)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

And you are making lovely baguettes!  The vinegar, malt vinegar is doing two things.  Adding a sweetner and speeding up the rise in acid in the dough.  Wet flour is not very acid but as we add yeast and it sits, the dough moves from being less acid to more acid.  Vinegar is an acid and putting a little into the dough tells the yeast to get busy.  Too much vinegar tells the yeasts to slow down. 


You should keep track of room temperature in your notes.  If the room is warm, 12 hours for a poolish can be too long.  A cool room will slow down the yeast and a longer time for the poolish is needed.  This can vary a lot as seasons change.  I like to use 23°C or 74°F as the ideal or middle temperature and change the poolish time as the thermometer goes up or down. 


Mini

teketeke's picture
teketeke

This is an old recipe: I was using Malt vinegar 1/4tsp and Molasses 3g in the poolish. I don't use it anymore because It is better taste using  salt only.


 


Wow, Now, I understand why 2g malt vinegar dough that I tested yesterday was flatten to compare to the other dough. And, 3g Molasses + 1g malt vinegar dough rises very well even while it is in the oven. :See below



>If the room is warm, 12 hours for a poolish can be too long. 


 I put the dough in the refrigerator after 2 hours of sitting at roomtemparture.


I should correct No.1 that is unclear.


1. Mix all poolish and sit for 2 hours at room temperature (23℃ or 74F) until it swells to about 1.5 times its original size.


 →Mix again →Refrigerator for over night. ( 12 hour in total)


I like to use around the temperature too! as you said,  In winter, That will change around 21℃ or 70F which means the time will change too.


I really appreciate your reply. Thank you so much, Mini!!!


teketeke


 

Franchiello's picture
Franchiello

So crusty and luscious looking!!  I'll have to try your technique.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your reply!! I am very looking forward to seeing your baguette picture :)


And, I will tell you that it is very helpful if you practice before scoring.


I got the information from dmsnyder. ( Thank you, David :))


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009


 


 


Good luck, :)


teketeke

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I deleted because I already updated it above.

Thaichef's picture
Thaichef

Good Morning Teketeke:


   Your baguette looks beautiful and your instruction in English is excellent.  I am Thai who has been here for more than 30 years and am afraid that my English is still need work.  Sigh! Oh well, can't be good in everything!!!


   Anyway, I have not make the baguette yet. I am too afraid, I think. Now with your information, I may attempt to do it.


   One question please: I don't have a baguette pan!  Does one need to have one inorder to make it your way? I am unclear on one of your instruction: you put the unbake baguette in the  baguette pan then into a roasting pan- and put water in the groove of the pan? Cold water in cold pan? You also spray water all over? what to do if one do not have a baguette pan?


   Your bread and the crumb looks amazing!  You should be very proud.


Mantana


 


 


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, Mantana:)


I appreciate for your questions.   My french bread dough is very wet, and if you want to make a round baguette, you better decrease water up to 70% which is 66g ice cold water for poolish, and 66g cold water for final baking. Otherwise you might end up to have a flattern one. The point is don't mix too much . It is fine that the dough is rough not smooth. It will have more holes and It is easy to handle it.


And now,  I have reviewed my recipe changing amount of yeast . I can't answer it right now.  I will update when I am satisfied with it. I just keep testing...


If you don't have a baguette pan, I will recommend to use a pizza stone and very hot water to pour to make steam. Here is the link that might help you out.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PERdGJCTY1A


In addition to your another question, I will show you this picture below.



手順28の写真


I spray cold water from faucet toward the baguettes, pan, and back of the pan for 1-2 minutes. And Yes, you are right about that I place the  shaped dough into a pan and let it rise and I put it into a oven after spraying the dough with the pan.


Thank you for your compliment, Mantana :) I keep baking baguettes everyday.:)


In the end, I am glad to see you here.  I know a taiwnese who I taught Japanese when I was in Japan. She was extremely nice. :)  Here is universal, as some folks said to me. :) we are welcomed :)


Happy baking,


teketeke

Tasty Little Dish's picture
Tasty Little Dish

I'm new to baking bread and have picked up on the term "crumb" but what does "ear" mean?  Sorry if this is a majorly amateurish question.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Don't be sorry, TastyLittleDish. What a cute name!


I didn't know the ear means 1 month ago!  Please click this link and you can understand it in a second.


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/10121/bread-scoring-tutorial-updated-122009#comment-127958


Happy baking,


Akiko

lynnebiz's picture
lynnebiz

Just want to mention to you, Thaichef, and to Teketeke, and everyone else here whose native language is not English: I am always amazed at the ability of non-native people when they learn English (I've read that it's one of the hardest languages). I think both of you are communicating very well - the day that I can speak (and write! my goodness...) Thai, Chinese, Russian, Spanish - or whatever native language a person from other countries speak, then I can comment on their English.


:O)


Until then - understand you guys are doing SO much more than I can, language-wise, and I am in awe! (your breads are pretty awesome, too!!)


Lynne

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I really appreciate your comment. :)


I forget about English now when I forcus on baking, especially "French bread" :P Even though I edit sometimes after I save my comments like now. I do the same thing in Japanese too.


Best wishes,


teketeke

amauer's picture
amauer

Super results. You English is perfect! AND I love your graphics, very cool and cute too! I have a tough time with French bread, will try this soon. Andrea

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I am reviewing my recipe right now.  That I can say to you is that you better not to mix the dough too much ( running food processor for 10-15 seconds is enough) When you mix too much, The dough will be really wet and you will have less holes in your baguette.


I will update my recipe when I am satishfied.


Thank you for your compliment :) Tham makes me happy.


Happy baking and good luck,


teketeke

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Wonderful looking baguettes, teketeke, I will try your recipe.


I also always use a perforated baguette pan that helps with the shape of my Pains a l'Ancienne. Your way of scoring is interesting - squeezing shortening into the cuts. It seems to keep them from closing again. I only don't like the taste of shortening - would butter work, too?


Karin

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for asking about shortening.


You can use margerine, I saw some Japanese bakers use margerine not butter. Honestly,I don't know why.  You also can use any oil. ( olive oil, vegetable oil and so on)    Personally, I don't taste anything shortening though. I smell and taste olive oil, vegetable oil, and margeine too. It is very difficult to pour liquid oil into the cuts after you scored in my baking history. :)


Best wishes,


teketeke

kutzeh's picture
kutzeh

Do you wet the bricks before wrapping?

teketeke's picture
teketeke

I don't wet the bricks before wrapping. I simply wrap the bricks with foil.  Thank you for asking, Kutzeh.


Happy baking,


teketeke

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I have tried your recipe (your first version without the helpful fold and shape pictures) and I had a lovely baguette. I use my Rofco hearth oven and linnen couches to proof the baguettes. This is my third try with three different recipes and yours is the best of the three. The Hamelman recipe I tried before did not give me the right crumb.I will give it soon another try to perfect the handling and shaping of the 80% hydratation dough. The dough looked like a sloppy disaster at first but after some time and a lot of stretch and folds it came together.


 


Thanks!


 


See our blog for more baking tips and recipes; www.weekendbakery.com


 



 


pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

"(letter-fold 3times: every 45 minutes). Gently remove the dough from the bowl ( past 45 minutes after 3rd fold) → 2 folds * look at the picture above"


 


Do you mean to do 1 fold every 45 minutes, or 3 folds every 45 minutes?


 


00:45 3 folds


01:30 3 folds


02:15 3 folds


03:00 2 folds


or


 


00:45 1 fold


01:30 1 fold


02:15 1 fold


03:00 2 folds


 


I did try to make more folds every time, but after 2 hours it is impossible to do more than one fold. So probably I misread your recipe?


Thanks!


 


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, pipo1000!


I am so glad to see your great report!! What a shiny crumb you got!!! Thank you for the nice pictures too!! I am so happy to see my recipe on your website! What a gift!! Thank you so much.


And, I want to tell you about the new fold way that  I am trying is very successful. I can have nice open crumb without squeezing shotening into the cuts now. I hope that you can try this way too.  You can fold easily too. Please click this link below:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9oyg8K6J8QM&feature=related


* Stretch and fold in a bowl. 4 folds!


 


00:45 4folds in a bowl.


01:30 4folds in a bowl.


02:15 2 folds or 4 folds in a bowl : you can choose depends on your dough.


03:00 2 folds→ in a bowl →put it in a freezer. ( It is easy to shape for the next 2 steps)


03:20 ( 20 minutes later)Gently take it out onto a work surface.→Shape 1 see the picture below:



手順14の写真手順15の写真手順16の写真手順17の写真手順18の写真手順19の写真


03:35 ( 15mintues later)Final shape: see the picture below:



手順19の写真手順20の写真手順22の写真


04:00-04:10 Proof  ( 30-40minutes)


手順45の写真before proof


手順46の写真After :30-40minutes later



This is a baguette that I made without squeezing shortening today!




I am still studying the scoring's line yet. I hope that you will have open crumb too!


When you fold it fold method that is a very good chance to have nice open crumb because there a lot of volume inside of the dough!


Good luck!!!


P.S. Don't knead the dough too much. The rough dough is better!!! I am folding (4 folds) the dough after mixing the final dough and the poolish by hand. that is very good.   As soon as you mix the poolish and final dough, The dough is ready to strech and fold method already!! ( That is my new thing )


 And, Please let me know if you don't understand. I did it in a rush.


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Thank you very much for all the updates to your recipe. I will give a try this week as I want to perfect my baguette like you. I did not use any shortning or fat in the cuts, I just cut it at a angle and put it in the oven. Perhaps you can post larger photos of the different stages so it easier to see what you are doing?


I will let you how my second batch is doing.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

** I am sorry that I made a mistake about the thrid fold-method!! On 3rd time,


You should do 2 folds!  otherwise you scoring will be bursted. I corrected the part.


 


Thank you too, pipo1000!  I am glad to hear that you are going to try the new recipe now. I really hope you will have a successful baguette!  


 I replaced some small photos with larger ones, but I am not finished yet. I am going to put more larger pictures on my recipe soon. Thank you for your advice that is helpful!!


Be free to ask me any questions, please.


Good luck,


 


Akiko


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Ah, I understand now. When you talk about 1 letter fold you mean one simple fold, I thought you meant with 1 letter fold a complete set of folds (left->right, right->left, up->down, down->up). So I did a lot of folds too much at my first try with your baguette and still it worked out ok.


I just started a poolish for 4 baguettes (it is 21:54 evening here) with only 0,4% yeast (=1,5 gram) because it has to stay for 17 hours in the refridgerator during my daytime job until 17:00 tomorrow.


 


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, pipo1000,


I am glad that you understand the fold method.  I should have put more pictures in my recipe. 


If it is only 17 hours is okay to use 1.6g yeast as my recipe.( I did it before. that was okay. By my french bread diary, it is stronger taste a litle bit and crumb is dark yellowish. )   When you use 1/2 amount of the yeast, You probably have baguettes which have more big holes and thicker crust and heavier than the original recipe. They are good.  I had made 2 diffrent baguettes to compare between 0.4% yeast and 0.8% yeast for a week.   I love thinner crust and lighter baguettes so that I put more yeast on my dough than others.


Please let me know of your result: I never let the dough autolyzed 17 hours with 0.4% yeast.  I am very interested in. Thank you for all your effort.


Thank you for telling me the detail, pipo1000!  I hope your are successful.


Akiko


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

pipo1000,


I put your great photos in my recipe that is Japanese site.  Would you mind ?


http://cookpad.com/recipe/1168515


Have a great day,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

No problem using the photo. I tried to make baguettes yesterday but I made a big error during the process and the dough was not strong enough during shaping. So I will try again tonight!

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Pipo1000,


Thank you for your response. I am glad to show your great baguette to everyone in Cookpad!  I am sorry for your mistake. but it must improve your baking skill already. I have learned a lot from my mistakes.   Thank you for telling me the detail, pipo1000:)


P.S I found that It is good to not to spray water the dough before baking. Spraying water around the pan and back of the pan,  the parchment paper except the dough. I think that you have a oven which has steam system though.


 


Best wishes,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I tried again tonight and it worked out ok. My shaping skill is still not very good, especially with the 80% hydratation dough, but it is getting better. The crumb is now very good, is used 0,4% yeast and I did about 2 minutes of slow folding at the first stage. At every further stage I did 4 folds, and I divided my dough after the bench rest.


 



 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

I am so excited to see your crumb!!! Wonderful!!!  and Yes, When you use 0.4% yeast, more likely you will have more open crumb!  I just want to have thinner crumb and bite easily because I am a lazy eater :) and also using 0.8% yeast, the baguette is lighter too although it is little difficult to have open crumb.


Your strech and fold skill is very very good like Mr.Nippon's baguette Formulas that is posted by Shiao-ping. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/16213/mr-nippon039s-baguette-formulas  and I see some ears too.


Congratulation, pipo1000!!   You don't use a pan for baguettes, It is very difficult to have a round baguette. It is natural if you don't use the pan.


<I tried again tonight and it worked out ok.


Oh,NO!!! You did a great job!!! Thank you so much.


I will post these pictures on my recipe in Japan too if you don't mind.


By the way, how was the taste?  Do you like it?  


Thank you again, pipo1000!!


Akiko

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi pipo1000,


Would you like to know how much light your baguette is after baking? 


Have you ever heard that a ratio of how much water the baguette lost ?


 


A ( The baguette's weight  before baking ) - B( The baguette's weight after baking) ÷ A x100 =  Ratio of  how much water the baguette lost.


The baguette's ratio is supposed to be around 20%-23% by Japanese bakery books.


 http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19274/heavy-baguettes-are-good-too


I just thought you might be interested in this.


Best wishes,


Akiko


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Yes, I did measure it;


1380 gram before baking (calculated by adding up the ingreidients)


1100 gram after baking


so it will be a ratio of 20,28%

teketeke's picture
teketeke

It sounds great, pipo1000:) It is seemed to me you are very successful. I am very impressed with your strech and fold skill!! It is fantastic. I will fold the dough slowly for 2 mintues at the first stage tomorrow. Thank you for the information!


I am going to bake 2 baguettes that is the same ingredients but I will change the method for testing.  It is fun to make different kind of baguettes  in the same time, isn't ?


I am going to put your new great photos in my recipe for Japanese. I hope that you don't mind....


Regards,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I have filmed the whole baguette making process including my folding. It is for my website and when it is finished I will put it on youtube and my website. On this video you can see how I do my foldings. Hopefully I will finish editting the video this weekend. I will let you know. You can see my hopeless shaping technique too ;-) Tonight I will look at the video shot to see how long exactlty I did my first stretch and fold cycle. I will let you know.


 


The taste of the baguette is amazing, the best baguette I have ever tasted and I have been on holiday to France alot! Most baguettes from bakers in France are very bad and taste, look and smell like cotton. They use intensive mixing and low hydratation dough and very little preferment. However some bakers are going back to the 'old' traditional recipes and the are better.


 


Regards,


Edwin


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello,Edwin :)


It is great!  I am looking forward to seeing your folding skill on youtube!!! I can't wait to see the video. Thank you for letting me know about it.:)


And, Your word about the taste made me almost cry. Thank you.. I have never been to France. The information means to me.   Did you eat a Gosselin's baguette too ? I am very curious to see the crumb.  I can't find the picture of Gosselin's baguette that is cut legthwise. If you can find it, Please let me know :)


Many thanks to you, Edwin! You made my day!


Best wishes,


Akiko


 

dcochran's picture
dcochran

your bread looks amazing.  your description of the process should be made a part of a book. your talent eclipses mine and i am thankful for the time you took to help an amateur like me.  i look forward to future posts. thank you.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Thank you for your compliment, dcochran:)


I have no talent, I just keep baking.... I have had tons of my mistakes!! and Today I made a sourdough bread which is looking good but the taste was like eating slippers! I am a begginer for a starter. I changed the ratio of Starter:Water:Flour.


And, I came up lots of ideas on this process by my mistakes. The most important thing is what I learned a lot here. Thank you all of you here. (bow)


1) wet the lame with water, warm up the lame before scoring, --- NG for me. So I tried to use grease like shortening.


2) While reading David's blogs  http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19202/sfbi-artisan-i-workshop-day-3 ,  David mentioned about Miyuki showed him how to knead the bough by hand... and then .. She looks like a thin and delicate woman. She can't knead I thought...and next day, I tried to fold the dough after mixing the poolish and the final dough.( Strech and fold process already begins from when the dough is combined.)


3)I can't afford "The taste of bread" by Pro. Calvel. I requested to a libralian to get it for me, but I was rejected. So then I found the website that I can read some pages of the book.http://books.google.com/books?id=xe0HePwpQrwC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=Raymond+Calvel++the+taste+of+bread+++shopping&source=bl&ots=BSQ1ps2jkH&sig=3wxbcAFiw...


 


 He was talking about put the dough in freezer. and, Of course, I tried the way next day and I was a successful. I am still testing about the freezing time though....


and so on.....   :)


Regards,


Akiko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


It's great to follow your posting on baguettes. The diagrams are so well drawn and so helpful.


I've made baguettes from some of the TFL recipes you highlight via links. My husband very kindly said the taste was like some he had eaten in France but the shaping was a bit rough! You seem to have obtained both a good taste and a good shape, which is great. I will try to follow your formulae and shaping diagrams next time I try baguettes. I lost a bit of confidence because although my shaping was okay compared to other sites it wasn't great for TFL - the best here is so good!


Good to hear that you have a sourdough starter going. I keep my starter at 1.3.4 now and it gives a good flavour - what ratio are you using?


You write very well about starting with sourdough. It's a less predictable journey than with baker's yeast but well worth it! My early loaves were the mirror image of what you describe. Apart from my early barm bread which just seemed to fall into shape, most of my early breads tasted great but looked like slippers! Still do sometimes and that is not just the ciabatta, which are meant to look slipper-like, it's the boules and sticks as well! My starters were producing inelastic dough for a while which made shaping difficult. They seem to be better now :-)


Like I say, good to have your illustrations as well as your reports on different formulae and ways of baking. Thank you for sharing these.


Wishing you well with all your baking, baguettes and sourdough.


Kind regards, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Sourdough bread is killing me !!!!   I have had a lot of trouble with this. I have made 4 sourdough breads for 4 days in a row.


 Day1: I used KA all purpose flour for a sourdough bread. -soft crumb but it was bursted.


          Feeding KA all purpose  to my starter.


Day2: I used BLEACHED ALL PURPOSE FLOUR! for a sourdough bread= There are black spots and white on the blooms. Hard and heavy and the taste was rubbery like slippers! :) Yours looks better.


         Feeding KA all purpose  to my starter.


Day3  As same as day2 for a sourdough bread - Of course, the result was the same. 


           Feeding BLEACHED ALL POURPOSE FLOUR! to my starter.


Day4  My starter didn't rise: OF COURSE!!!  I should be a criminal in this bakery world.


 I looked up how to fix this situation, someone commented, " put  the all purpose flour in a microwave for 1 minutes"   I did and then fed it to my starter.1:2:2  (Your ratio looks nice! I better try that too.)RESULT: The starter turned to be completely flatten. It looked like a play dough.


And I got an infomation, I can feed whole wheat flour or rye flour too. (  Unbleached white flour had been run out ) I fed it to my poor play dough starter again.  Now, I see some bubbles in it. I hope it works.  I already started to make a sourdough starter again for just in case. *I bought KA all purpose flour this evening :)


Thank you for all your compliment for me.  You made me feel better already. I was down all day today.


Thank you, Daisy_A :)


Akiko


 


     

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


Glad my message was of help!


Please don't feel down about the sourdough starter, although I know it's hard. I got quite sad about mine at times. The barm bread was one of my best early breads, then my starters got overly acidic and I had a lot of unintentionally flat breads :-(. I thought I'd never get out of that dip, but I did.


Given sourdough cultures are living creatures starting one is a bit more like getting a new pet than using baker's yeast! My starters were really naughty in the early days - tearing through the dough when I wanted them to proceed slowly and lying down and refusing to move when I wanted them to raise the bread in a livelier fashion!


Day 4 is early to be seeing activity in a sourdough starter. Don't worry if you haven't seen bubbles up to this point. Also it may be too early for it to start to raise bread. It won't raise bread if it is not doubling in its own jar within a few hours. There are lots of posts on TFL to help judge when it is ready. However if it shows good aeration, doubles in a few hours and smells good (part yeasty, part sour but not unpleasant), those are key signs.


I had to try a lot of different approaches to my starters but they are really healthy now so feel free to benefit from my ups and downs! I now feed my starters a 1.3.4. ratio and mix plain and whole grains flours. I feed 50% plain white flour and 50% whole meal. My fussy starters also do better with flours that are neither bleached nor heat treated. I can get relatively cheap stone ground flour and I use this. There is a reason for this. The less treatment the flour receives the more yeasts survive. I'm no expert but I think if you put flour in the microwave you could be killing the yeasts your starter needs to develop. I see some of the most experienced bakers on TFL also use the 1.3.4.ratio and mixed grains (around 70 white, 20 wheat, 10 rye or similar, premixed) although there are bakers whose starters flourish with other approaches!


Andy (ananda) taught me a great deal about different flours. Sourdoughs can sometimes benefit from being made with flours with stronger gluten content than that used say for baguettes. In a UK context this means buying flour labelled 'bread flour'. However I understand that KA all purpose flour is a similar strength to some UK bread flours so should be a good choice for baking sourdough. 


I doubt you will be able to bake sourdough every day and be successful at this stage as the sourdough culture is still gathering strength. Might be better to concentrate on strengthening the starter then in a couple of weeks or more you could be turning out great breads! It is very early days now so please don't feel down. Starters continue to mature over weeks, days, years. Most bakers would not be able to get great bread out of a starter that is only a few days old.


Given your dedication to bread making I'm sure that when your starters are ready, your sourdough breads are going to be great. I look forward to reading about them! :-)


With best wishes, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Daisy_A,


Thank you so much for all your work to write all information you know. I am very happy to get know about a starter. My starter is recovering amaizingly.



This is 4hours after I fed  (starter : water: Flour=1:1:1)  King Arthur UNBLEACHED FLOUR:) 40g:40g:40g  I saw my starter rose double in bulk. I will change the ratio like yours to try when my starter rises double in a few hours.


I will be patient to wait When my starter looks good, bake until my starter is stable. I had waited for 14 days last time. I just shouldn't add BLEACHED FLOUR. I never forget about this.


. I will post about my up and down sourdough bread history.:)


Thank you so much, Daisy_A (bow)


Akiko


 


Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


I'm delighted to see that you starter has recovered so well! It must have liked the KA flour!


If it is doubling in 4 hours you could probably bake with it now as it should raise bread in a similar time period. However if you wait a bit the flavour of the final loaf is likely to become more complex - more yummy as you say below! 


Eventually your starter will let you know what it is best being fed with and how often. My starter needs to be fed a higher ratio of flour because the yeasts work very quickly and at 1.1.1 it gets acidic too quickly. However an artist gave me a starter as part of a project I hope to blog on soon and that was perfectly happy and strong at 125% hydration. 


Wishing you all the very best with your particular starter and thank you again for all your encouragement with shaping.


Best wishes, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, Daisy_A, I hope you feel better for shaping the dough now. I am feeling good to for next step! ( about  a wild yeast and sourdough bread)


I have one way to easy to shape and have open crumb well.



1. First fold -Letter fold in a bowl.


2. Second fold-another letter fold in a bowl.


3 Third fold-another letter fold in a bowl.


4 Preshape in a bowl ( It is the same as my original recipe) then freezer for 15-20 minutes.


5.2folds and pinch and make a shape as you desire. ( Not to roll too much) and ready to proof. * I prefer roll 2.3 times only for it.


This is very easy.  I hope that helps you.  


Sincerely,


Akiko


 


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Thanks for the shaping info. When do you divide your dough? I make 4 baguettes at once so at one stage I have to cut my dough in 4 pieces. I did it after the 15 minutes bench rest.


The poolish for the baguettes is now ready and in the refridgerator. I will give it a go tomorrow. Why do you put your poolish in the refridgerator instead of using less yeast and keeping it on room temperature?


I gave a baguette to my work collegue and he loved it too. It is a bit of a bread snob and he goes on holiday to France also a lot. He normally buys my sourdough pain rustique breads from me which I bake almost every week. You can see a picture on my website:


http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/pain-rustique-more-bread/


By the way I did stretch and folds for 1 minute and 45 seconds the last time it tried during the first stage.


Regards,


Edwin

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


I love the story about your work collegue who is a bit of a bread snob?! That is funny. I am very glad to hear that he loved it. I envy you guys  who often go to France!!! And.....


< When do you divide your dough?


A: I don't divide my dough. I make one at time when I make more than 2 baguttes because I don't like to think about to divide in the righ amount correctly. When you divide the french bread dough, I think I better not to cut the dough more than the numbers you are going to divide. It will collaspe the crumb.


( This is an old recipe that I was testing using honey and molasses. These yogurt cups are good sizes for my baguette dough :)  ) 


I think that you are doing right when you divide the dough though. I agree with David (TFLER) who said that you better divid the dough rectangle to make a shape easily and not to damage the crumb.


<Why do you put your poolish in the refridgerator instead of using less yeast and keeping it on room temperature?


A: 1.Using less yeast has merits - to have open crumb easily.


    Demerits- 1.More likely I have a harder crust. ( my oven condition is not so good may be.) my goal is to have thinner and crunchy crust.


                  2.More likely I have a hevier baguette. ( I like light baguettes but it has nice moisture in it. That is my goal)


                  3.More likely I have a flatten baguettes.( I just found out today. I got one of parts of my 0.4% yeast baguette got flatten. I will try to test it again though... because I was using a stove next to the dough when it was siting for ready to final shape... The dough got really gooey and it was really hard to make a final shape, also it was difficult to score.)


Although using more yeast has demerit too.


 1. It is  more difficult to have open crumb than using less yeast dough.


Merits- 1. More likely I have  thinner and crunchy crumb.


          2. More likely I have ears and blooms. ( round baguettes)


        


Why do you put your poolish in the refridgerator?


A: That is from BBA.( The bread baker's Apprentice) But again, I tested it to make 2 different baguttes : one poolish (A) went in a freezer, The other(B) is let at room tempareture around 74F.    When I tasted them, (A) was sweeter, fresh taste and (b)was a like when I left a poolish in a refrigerator more than 18 hours. I mean the crumb was darker, little smell ( very slightly though), and little bit of sourness.If you like to taste sourness for your baguettes, I think that is better. I prefer to taste fresh and a lot of natural sweetness.  Keeping the dough in a refrigerator is good to my taste. (develop natural sweet well) That is why I leave my dough in a cold place for a long fermentation(3 hours).


Wow, Your sourdough bread is amazing!! That is very very nice. I am getting hungry for a turkey sandwich. I hope I can make like yours in the future.... 


Oh I see,, I did stretch and folds for 1 minutes for 0.8% yeast, less 2 minutes for 0.4% yeast SLOWLY...:) It works. Thank you!


See you tomorrow, ( I hope you are sucessful tomorrow too!)


Akiko


 


 


         


 

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


Many thanks for this! I will definitely try this shaping technique when I make bread again - probably in the next few days.


I have been trying to shape boules. This is partly because I like that shape but also because when I started baking I was really excited about getting a banneton and the shop I got it from only had round.


Actually I am better at shaping bâtards so will try those again following your diagrams. Hopefully I can start to feel better about this :-). Glad you are looking forward to the next sourdough step - do keep us posted.


Thanks again for the help. Best wishes, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Many thanks to you too, Daisy!


I am already excited to make a sourdough bread... NOT YET though.. I have to wait for yummy sourdough bread ...


Actually, I am admiring a round banneton. I like to see the swirl lines on the surface of the bread.  It looks gorgeous. I am using a basket for a while though.But I may buy it when I am sucessful.


I am looking forward to hearing your french bread result :)  Yes, I noticed that the process of shaping batards are the same way. Be gentle....  I like to touch shiny and soft  but stretchy dough...It is a moment I really enjoy...


Thanks again for all your help too!!!


Akiko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


Yes, it's worth waiting for the yummy stuff! However it should not be too long if your starter is doubling in 4 :-)


You're right - bannetons do make lovely swirl lines on the bread and help support it while it rises. Definitely worth buying when the time is right.


I will try to let you know about the shaping on french breads and bâtards.


Thank you for all your advice and the lovely diagrams. Kind regards, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 


Today, I made 2 baguettes without using a pan.   How do you proof the dough after shaping?   I did like this:  Please see the picture below. ( you can roll up more tightly, I didn't do a good job at the sides.)


I hope that will help you.  And my testing was a bed result today.  I put them in a freezer for 15 minutes after final proofing normally.And, I scored them then directly put them in a oven. ( like Susan's sourdough bread method)  It turned out like a stored baguettes which means No deep taste compare to my original baguette. (I only taste of sweetness ) and they are really light and thin crust like a empty baguettes.  I assume that  the dough were baked directly from a freezer or refrigerator that you proofed in lost a lot of flavor. (The water from the dough)  because they lost lots of water from the dough that is really cold which absorbs lots of heat and looses lots of water.(Cold stuff is needed more Kinetic energy than room temparature stuff in a high heated oven)When you put an ice cube in a preheated oven. Just like that, The same things happen to the dough too. I am not sure about it. If you know about the detail, Please let me know. I am curious.


But I scored them easily. And I found out one thing that we should focus on the straight line when you score. Not draw a line diagonally. Even I knew the thing, I drew a diagonal line unknowingly that cause the soft dough spread sideway and the dough end up to a flatten baguette.



When you can line close to the straight line, The dough will stay still more than the others are drawn diagonally. and Cut's depth 1cm: When I tried to cut's depth 0.6cm, it always came out the depth were 0.3-0.4cm or so because I was so nervous not to cut so deeply.  * Have you ever sliced a fish's skin off with a knife? I think that is very similar when I score a baguette.


And these are today's baguettes.



-----------------------------


I made another 2 baguettes( 0.4% yeast and 08 yeast) but I did a wrong thing that I was cooking curry sauce using stove next to the dough was sitting on the shaping process. ( before final shape) That was not good because the dough was softer than ever I had. They are very gooey to make a final shape.


Left: 0.8% yeast ( my original recipe)


Right :0.4% yeast



 0.4% yeast


  0.8% yeast


both of two was sliced 7-8 mintues after I take them out of the oven. It is better to wait for 20 minutes at least.


Especially, 0.4% yeast dough came out a flatten baguette.  For making steam, I used a pan and 2 ice cubes and the result was the baguette came out so soft and heavier I mean watery. ( didn't loose much water from the dough because of 2 ice cubes) I think the steam system is good when I put the dough in a freezer before baking.Because the dough may not loose much water.  I  better try that. To keep the dough in a freezer for 15 minutes before baking, It has some merits that is easy to score and I can keep the shape round. But my question is that the cold dough and ice cubes absorb lots of heat and The dough would end up soft and watery heavy baguettes again...



 


----Result of using Freezer and refrigerator bafore baking


I baked 2 diffrent kind of baguettes. One is 0.4% yeast and the other one is 0.8% yeast. I put the 0.4%'s in a freezer for 5 minutes after proofing ( 25 minutes)  I also used the homemade pan for baguettes.


RESULT: 9/7/2010  I found that I am not big fan of putting the dough in a freezer nor refrigerator before baking . The crumb was stuffed and  less shiny . Crust was light yellow that is good but I prefer dark brown. I really like to taste of baguettes are fresh.



Left: Freezer for 5 mintues before baking 0.4%yeast


Right  my original recipe  80% hydration  0.8% yeas


I also used a rerigerator for 1 hours after proofing 25 minutes too. The crumb was the same result above.


 


Happy baking,


Akiko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,


I must say today's baguettes look gorgeous with really even scoring and shaping and open crumb!


I am interested in cooking dough cold from the refrigerator. I had thought of doing this but may hold back if it loses flavour. I'm sorry I don't know the science of this but someone on here will!


I like the pictures of the baguettes en couche. I used that for the lemon bread and it worked well. I may try that again with bâtards.


Wishing you continued good baking. Best wishes, 


Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, Daisy,


I hope that somebody here describe the science of these situation for me too.


And, Yes...My family didn't like the baguettes that are like bland taste.  Using a cloth that is winded up is very helpful to keep the dough round.



I also use some foil and plastic wrap to hold it still.  It is better to cut a parchment paper has a enough room for the dough.


Happy baking and Thank you for your compliment! Thank you , Daisy_A :)


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Hi,


I have tried your great recipe again and I am getting better at it. The shaping went much better this time. Two out of four do now look like a kind of proper baguette and the other two are ok instead of a disaster.


With putting the first two baguettes in the oven I got so excited because they looked so good that I forgot to score the baguettes. I found out when I put the other two into the oven on the second stone. So I decided to score the first two while they where in the oven for 60 seconds and already had some ovenspring. They have never looked better ;-)


I have some problems with my video editing software (it keeps telling me I am out of memory) so the video takes sadly some more time.


We just ate a baguette with some cream cheese and it was lovely. My wife Marieke is also in love with the taste of the baguette.  Again Akiko, thank you for your great recipe and your great article!!!


Regards,


Edwin


 





 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


Wow, I am so happy to see your baguettes are amazing!! As you describe, Your scoring and crumb are very very good. I am very impressed.


I will wait to see your video is done!  I will be patient!! I want to try your stretch and fold skill as soon as I see your video! :)


I am so glad that your wife enjoyed it too. That is your effort!!!  Congratulation, Edwin!!!   My dogs love my beguettes too. LOL That is funny to see when my husband  started to eat my baguette at the kitchen, our 2 dogs dash into him as fast as they could and protesting and barking hard to get the french bread. Usually they are very patient and wait until he feeds other soft bread or chicken.


I updated to make homemade pan without buying.  I tried it and it works very well.  I just came up this morning after I was about throw the cardboad after using foil. I usually use the cardboard to draw lines for scoring.


Thank you for your great great report!! Many thanks to you, Edwin!!


P.S I will post your great photos again in Cookpad!!


Regards,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Today I made some baguettes again to practice and it went great. I used 0.8% yeast in my poolish and I used 0.4% yeast in the final dough. I only kept the poolish about 1 hour on room temperature and I stored it for about 8 hours in the fridge. I wanted to see if I got a crumb which was in between 0.4 and 0.8 and if I could shorten the time in the room and in the fridge. I have watched some videos on youtube about shaping baguettes but all of videos use a dough with alot less hydratation and are not usable on your 80% dough but I got some ideas from it. I have made up my own shaping technique and it worked perfectly. All 4 baguettes are looking like baguettes and have a nice shape. One of baguettes hit the back of the oven and has a little bent but that is easy to do better next time. I also tried to score as good as I could and you almost have to score in a straight line, very funny. These are the nicest looking baguettes I have ever baked but..... I forgot to put in the salt...


0.8% yeast in poolish and 0.4% yeast in final dough;



 



 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

Did you hear of these baguette's  really loud cracking sounds? I did. and I saw a huge crack on these baguettes too.


Your crumb look so much better. I should learn your fold skill from you.:) When my son ate one of those, he said" What?  I don't taste anything! "  That was really right :0 I realized that as soon as I held these baguettes. They were extremely light.  Since then I mix flour and salt in the other bowl before putting it into the poolish and final dough mixture. 


And, I have put 0.2% yeast in a poolish and 0.6% yeast in a final dough before.They were good too. but they were still thicker crust for me athough they were tasty . I didn't get as much as you get such a open crumb though..


 What you tested today was a really good one. Do you have Hamelman's book? I have just gotten some information about the yeast percentage for baguettes by one of TFLers. Thank you !


-----------------------



LENGTH OF RIPENING % YEAST


 


Up to 8 hours .7 to 1%


Up to 12 hours .3 to .6%


Up to 16 hours .1 to .25%


----------------------------------------


 



I better test more about the yeast percentage from now on. Thank you for telling me, Edwin!  Your scoring is great, Edwin!! It is really funny, isn't"?


Best wishes,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

The baguettes without did indeed crackle alot. They did not feel very light, they felt like normal baguettes. The baking ratio was 21.2%. I have the Hamelman book, as I have alot of bread books including the Calvel book. By the way the percentages and times for poolish by Hamelman are for room temperature and for fresh yeast instead of active dry yeast (21 degrees celcius). So you have to divide the percentages by 3!


Here is a link to a PDF of one chapter of the Hamelman book, it is located on the website of the publisher; it is the chapter about poolish dough;


http://media.wiley.com/product_data/excerpt/72/04711685/0471168572.pdf

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


You have everything that you need to learn about bread!  Thank you for linking the chapter of the Hamelman book.  I got the same one from one of TFLers too.After I left it the message, I noticed that the TFLer had already mentioned  the same thing although I knew that the percentage and time for poolish by Hamelman are for room temparature.  


I think that I don't know about bread anything. I tried some bread books but they were not my taste. so I found lots of good bread recipes and information in Cookpad ( Japanese ) and now I am here (TFL) that are tons of information about bread and good recipes too because they are making bread in real and that are very accurate. 


When I checked through my french bread diary ( I have baked 2 different baguettes almost everyday for 5 month.( I missed 4 times), I realized that sometimes 0.4% yeast baguettes are too wet crumb and little heavy. I didn't leave the right temparature and humidity. 0.8% baguettes are easy to take care of.  All of your bagettes are looking good and seemed to me they are light too. What degree do you let the 0.4 % baguettes rise for proof before baking ?


Best wishes,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Akiko,


Did you ever try reducing the water in the dough? You now use 80%, however when you lower it to about 70-74% the dough will be much easier to handle. I am wondering what the effect on the crumb will be. I will try to bake again tomorrow and now with salt!


As you know we have a website http://www.weekendbakery.com about bread baking and I am asking you if I may use your wonderful recipe to publish an article about this amazing baguette?


Thanks,


Edwin


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 


Edwin,


Absolutely you can use my recipe and you can show your professional fold-skill to everybody who wants to make a baguette that has nice open crumb like yours! I am glad to hear that from you!


I tried 70%-78 hydration baguettes many times but they were thick crust and I didn't get the one has open crumb.  I really like high hydration baguettes. I better I stick with 0.8% yeast baguettes for a while because I can't use preheat 500F or 250℃.


I baked 2 kinds of baguettes today. One was 0.8% yeast that was proofed as my original recipe; the other one was 0.4% yeast that was left in a freezer for 5 minutes after proofing at 33-34℃.   Now I know that I shouldn't put the dough in a freezer or refrigerator before baking because their crumb were less shiny and stuffed and the baking ratio was 19% the 0.8% one's baking ratio was 22% and they had nice open crumb not as much as yours though.


I am enjoying seeing your baguettes pictures!!


Happy baking,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Thanks alot!


I have got my video editing program back to work and I am editing the video at this moment. It had something to do with a new Apple Quicktime and my Sony Vegas video editing program. When I installed an older Quicktime 7.5.5 instead of 7.6.7 it start working again, however now iTunes for my iPad does not work anymore.... *computers* *sigh*


Thanks for the info about the 70-78% hydration, I will take your word for it and keep going with the 80% version. When the article and video is finished I will tell you. I have to re-shoot the shaping part of the video to my new way of shaping. Hopefully it will work when I have the camera rolling.


Kind regards,


Edwin


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


I was told by one of TFLERS that I better try to make 70%-78% hydration baguettes with a new method I changed recently. That was right. I didn't test that using a new version one.  


 I think I am going to try to make 78% hydration (0.4% yeast)one and 80% hydration(0.8% yeast) tomorrow. I changed my mind to give up to try 0.4% yeast one. :) I want to make one like yours that are light all the time.   I will post the result tomorrow.


P.S  I am sorry for your computer trouble. That is very annoying isn't?  I hope that you are successful soon! I want to watch your video!! :)  I am delighted to see your skill!!


------Next day------


I made 78% hydration dough with 0.4% yeast and 80% hydration dough with 0.8% yeast using a homemake baguette pan.  I realized that 0.4% dough need more time to rise ( proof) before baking than 0.8% yeast dough.    


 Today's result : I proofed them at 30℃-32℃ or 86F-89.6F for 25 minutes. 0.4% yeast dough needed 10 more minutes to rise. That is why the dough was heavy little bit. 




0.4% yeast, 78% hydration dough. I don't think between 80% and 78% hydration have any differences. It was the same dough texture with 80% hydration with 0.4% yeast.



0.8% yeast , 80% dydration dough. That was very tasty and I am very happy with this baguette.


Tomorrow, I am going to make 75% hydration and 70% hydration with 0.4% yeast dough using a homemade baguette pan. 


To be continued....


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Baked again, 0.8% yeast for 1 hour on room temperature and from 21:00 until 16:30 in the fridge. I did uses 0.4% yeast in the final dough. My new shaping technique is working perfectly and I have filmed everything. I also have a special video treat if if worked out. 


The baguettes are superb! The best I have ever had. Cripsy, light (22% baking ratio) and full of flavour. This way they have the perfect balance between crumb and holes.


Also my scoring is getting more even and more aligned, so I am very very happy with the ears on my baguettes! I have practiced with a pen on a piece of paper. I drew a vertical line on the paper and then tried to 'score' the line. I practiced this about 20 to 30 times. I am using 'bread pan oil spray' to spray on my homemade lame. It is a dual-edge razor blade mounted on a wooden stick. With the oil and a swift stroke the scoring is ok. You only have to break the 'skin' on the baguette, not really cutting very deeply. My cuts were only about 2-3mm deep. The ovenspring made the scorings break open.


 



 



 



 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

Wow, Edwin,


You mastered this recipe more than me!! I did try before 0.8% yeast for poolish and 0.4% yeast for final dough before too. But I didn't get the great result as much as you got. Oh boy!!


Hmmmm... Now I want to make baguettes like yours! :)  Scoring is very vary depends on your oven and steam system, I wonder. I never got the ears and blooms when I cut only 0.2 or 0.3 mm.   Your oven is very nice! What kind of oven do you have?


And,  Do you have a sourdough bread recipe on your site?  I couldn't find it.


That is so funny now because I know a Japanse woman who has baked french bread using her recipe for a long time ( more than me :) )  in Cookpad ( Japanese) and now I see you who often bake baguettes like us that makes me feel so great. I am very enjoying to see your GREAT baguette pictures. Thank you so much, Edwin!!!


P.S  I used to practice to score using papers, but now I am using  cardboards that I save after using saran wraps or foil and so on. That is an interesting to hear what you made your own lame.


GREAT BAGUETTES!!  and TOAST FOR YOUR GREAT EFFORT!!!!  I am so happy!!


Baking is fun!


Akiko


 


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I have to thank you for your great recipe and all of your research work.


What kind of flour are you using? I am using organic flour milled by a very old historical windmill about 15 kilometers away. I have great success with this flour with all kind of breads. I have tried different flours from different sources on my regular breads (even french T55) but this is the best. All the flours gave a different result; taste, structure, crumb, crust and color. So perhaps you could try another kind of flour?


The oven is a Rofco B20, a Belgium made stone flour oven for the homebaker or for small shops; http://www.rofco.be/ovens.html#B20


Regards,


Edwin


P.S. I score about 2-3mm not 0.2-0.3mm

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, Edwin:)


I have to thank you too!! I am learning a lot from you too and I am enjoying it.


Oops, That was a mistake, yep I meant to write "2-3mm"


----- I think that I did something wrong with yesterday's baguette! ---


I did the same test today.   I have to admit that leave the poolish for 1 hours is better!!! and  really taste fresh  and full of flavor!!  Thank you, Edwin! I will change the recipe.  


1 hour dough was harder than the 2 hours. but it was just a little bit. The 1 hour's one  was easier to score than the 2 hours's one too.


 No flour until rolling the dough after final shape is better. I also make the shape method easier now. I am still testing and It turns out good, I will update.   How is your video?   I am looking forward to seeing your video!!! REALLY!!   Your baguettes are amazing!


Thank you for all your information that you gave me. I am looking for fresh flour now.:)


-----About your sourdough recipe----


I found your sourdough bread recipe that looks scrumptious! I will give a try next time ! Thank you, Edwin.


http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/our-version-of-a-pain-rustique/


Best wishes,


 Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Here is a quick picture of my oven with the big stones. The oven has three of these floors;


davesmall's picture
davesmall

Akiko - I love this thread. Tried your recipe this weekend and I had mixed results. The crumb and crust were very good but I had trouble slashing the wet dough. 


I do have a Silform Baquette mold which works really great for this recipe. I recommend one of these to anyone who plans to bake baquettes or baquette rolls frequently


http://www.jbprince.com/cake-and-bread-molds/silform-baguette-form.asp

teketeke's picture
teketeke

davesmall,


Thank you for trying such a high hydration dough that is difficult to score as you said, and I am so glad to hear from you loved the crumb and crust. Thank you for telling me the result. 


 Did you put some oil in your lame and sprinkle some flour on the dough before scoring? I score my baguette with a lame by bare hand because I can aim at the right angle I want to. It is little dangerous but it works for me.


I checked the site you linked that is interesting.  Thank you for the information that will help somebody want to know about this pan.


Thank you again, davesmall:)


Akiko

BellesAZ's picture
BellesAZ

Holy smokes!  Not only is your bread fantastic and your post absolutely amazing... but our English is pretty great too! 

Thanks for sharing!  I love it.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

BellesAZ,


Thank you for the compliment that made me run as fas as I could to tell my husband. :)   LOL... My family makes fun of me for my English all the time. But they are correcting me for a good reason and I appreciate it.


Thank you, BellesAZ


Best wishes,


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I have baked the baguettes again yesterday and they came out yummie as well. The only thing was I did not divide the dough evenly so two were bigger and less nicely shaped than the other two. But the crumb, taste and holes were the same as my other pictures.


The fun thing of this acident was that the smaller two of the baguettes had a nicer oven spring with nicer opening of the cuts. I think they weigh about 310-325 gram instead of the 350 grams. Normally a baguette in France needs to be 60cm instead of the 40cm I can make. I think they call the smaller slightly thicker bread 'a pain'.


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Hi,


I have posted a baguette diary based on my postings and Akiko's recipe within this thread on my website with more photo's of baguettes;


http://www.weekendbakery.com/posts/baguettes-my-home-bakers-log/


Kind regards,


Edwin

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Oh my goodness!! Edwin,


All our family read your french bread blog and we are so delighted!!  My husband was laughing with a joy, my son and daughter were patting my back with good cheer.


I can clearly said that you definitely created your own recipe by your lots of efforts, Edwin!! You should post your recipe here!!!   I am very very happy with your baguettes!!!! 


I appreciete all your generous words that you wrote to me.  Many thanks to you, Edwin! 


About the amount of Baguette's dough: That is an interesting invention. I should check it out. Thank you for telling me, Edwin.


My today's baguttes, I had to leave the dough at 3rd fermentation ( After I finished to stretch and fold) for 1.5 hours.( Total fermentation time was almost 4 hours)  These baguettes were like a dead crumb. I didn't like them at all.  I remember that one Japanese home baker let her baguettes dough rise for 6 hours  ( cold fermentation at the refrigerator) using a recipe was fermented at the refrigerator from 3 hours to 6 hours, She didn't like the 6 hours one at all. She liked 3 hours one instead.   Over proof and over fermented dough ruin everything in my opinion.


I like to read your blog !!!!


Thank you again, Edwin!


Akiko

davesmall's picture
davesmall

Akiko and Edwin - This is an amazing thread. I've really enjoyed following it. Edwin, your diary page is great.


One of the reasons I decided to try Akiko's recipe would be my fondness for Vietnamese pork baquette sandwiches: Banh Mi


I live in Houston which was a major immigration center during the Vietnam war. We now enjoy many wonderful Vietnamese restaurants. There was a Vietnamese sandwich shop not far from our house. I loved their sandwiches. Unfortunately, they shut down earlier this year so those sandwiches were no longer available. I felt the need to make them at home.


This is the famous Banh Mi sandwich. It is the result of the French occupation of Vietnam some years ago. Innovative Vietnam chef's adopted the French Baquette and turned it into a wonderful sandwich.


Any great sandwich should start with wonderful bread. Akido's baquettes are perfect. For individual sandwiches I made shorter baquettes about 7 or 8 inches long but the same diameter as regular baquettes.


These sandwiches are a wonderful combination of crusty bread, crunchy and flavorful ingredients. 


Here is a link to the recipe we used. We were fortunate to have some left over pork roast which worked perfectly. I'm sure you could also use thin sliced pork loin or tenderloin browned in a skillet.


http://www.foodchannel.com/recipes/678-vietnamese-style-pork-sandwich


If you are baking these baquettes, I would strongly encourage you to try these. 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello! davesmall


Thank you for the compliment and the recipe you linked. I am so glad that my recipe has worked out for you, and Edwin's baguettes are phenomenal as you know. Oh yes, I am always looking for recipes using baguettes!!:) I didn't buy a block of pork today sunday that is our grocery shopping once a week. I will try it next week! It looks yummy!  Thank you, davesmall!


I used to go to a Vietanamese restaurant in Hawaii where I had lived for a few years in total. I love Vietanamese food. My most favorite's was Phở   I still love it but I can't find any good one here. 


When you have some another recipes that you like , Please let me know :)


P.S How is your scoring?  Did you get "ears" and " blooms"? You mentioned that you couldn't slash such a wet dough.


Thank you again,


Akiko

davesmall's picture
davesmall

Akiko - Please let me know how your family likes the Vietnamese sandwiches. I think they're very good.


I still wasn't able to get a clean slash with ears. My next idea is to put the loaves into the oven without slashing. Then wait until the dough starts to expand and dries on the surface. That's probably going to be five to seven minutes after putting into the oven. I'm curious as to whether any other readers have tried 'hot slashing' like this. I don't remember seeing it reported anywhere but seems like it should work. I'll give it a try.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, davesmall,


I will tell you when we eat the sandwiches! 


Wow, What a great idea!  Edwin scored the dough after putting them in a oven by an accident before. That worked out perfectly, I wonder.  I am looking forward to hearing your result :)


P.S I will update fold and shaping method  today or tomorrow. I think that will have more open crumb because the dough has a lot of volume inside.


Happy baking!


Akiko

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, davesmall


I tried a hair dryer to dry the dough's surface with cold air before scoring for 3 mintues or so.   I can't say it works but I was successful.  I still continue to test about it. I use the homemade pan though. Today's result:


写真


 


 


 I know you have the special pan though. When you score using the pan, you better score more diagnoally  because the pan support the dough not spread widely.


 See the score line's picture below: This scoring must be for using a stored pan.



And This is for sliding the dough onto the pizza stone: see this picture below




I am still studying but These are from my experiences. I hope that will help you.


Best wishes,


Akiko

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, davesmall


I just want to tell you about the sandwich you recommended to me was so delicious!!!


Unfortunately, I  couldn't find fish sauce around here ( I didn't have a chance to go asian market) So, I used my favorite vinegar sauce.


http://cookpad.com/recipe/266957 ( Japanese)  It is very easy.



  • Vinegar ( I used apple cider vinegar) 200ml

  • Hot pepper                         5 pieces - as much as you want

  • Ginger                              2-3 cloves minced

  • Garlic                                2-3 cloves minced


You just put all ingredients in a container and shake it and it will be ready to use next day. When you used all the liquid, add more vinegar. you can use it for several months without making it from begining.  It  matches  grilled fish or noodles or so.



And this is the sandwich you told me! After I took this picture, I wrapped them with saran wrap to bite it easily.:)



Thank you, davesmall!!


By the way, I tried a hot slash on my sourdough other day. and I noticed the straight line in the center of the bloom. I saw the lines in yours too. It also happens when you slash many times.  If you like it , It is okay, but I am not fond of the lines.



 Take a look this video from  the time 4:17.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nntp9FfqIZ8


 I saw the same lines that in the center of the blooms too.


Thank you again for the recipe! davesmall,


Akiko


 


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I tried a dough with 76% hydration today. The plus side it is a lot less sticky, the minus side the holes in the crumb are a little less uniform. I also tried the dragon tail cut, very very nice and it also gives the baguettes a lot of room to expand and because of this the crumb had a nice uniform hole structure;


 



 



 



 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


I must try your recipe!!! I love the dragon trail pattern!! WOW, Is it really 76% hydration??? That is reallly beautiful crumb !!!!  I want to put these beautiful baguette's pictures on my recipe of Japanese version to show everyone in Japan! What a great idea, Edwin!!!  I bet that a lot of skilled Japanese home bakers want to try this pattern.


I am so impressed!!!!


Akiko

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

For the record; The dragon tail is not my idea, we just found this pattern on the internet!

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Edwin,


I know that! I saw "Dragon tail pattern" on David's blog.  I think that Miyuki who was teacher? showed them on her class or so.  I was simply impressed with your skill!!


Akiko

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

FYI, SusanFNP just posted a video of dragon tail shaping. It's really nice and clear. Here's a link:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WhWQldwrjU


David

davesmall's picture
davesmall

Akiko - I baked some rolls today using 80% hydration wet dough. Since I've found it very difficult to slash such wet dough I experimented with hot slashing. 


I put the unslashed rolls in a 450 degree oven and waited about 6 minutes until I could see that they had begun to expand and the surface of the dough was dry. 


Here is a photo of the best one. Like anything else, I think it will take a bit of practice but it does look like a viable solution to the wet dough slashing problem.


Dave Small


 


Hot Slashed 8 inch Bread Roll

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, davesmall


That is an interesting report, Thank you for letting me know !! davesmall!  Is this baguette burst?  I have to tell you about one thing:  Summer is over now and the temperature has changed. The room tempareture in my kitchen was around 76F around in summer. but now, It has been cold and the temperature is around 68F around now . You should use cold water instead of ice cold water if you live in a country has a season. and You don't have to put the dough in a freezer before shaping either because it is easy to handle the dough if it is cool.


Why do you use 450F?  Do you have a steam system?  To have ears and blooms, It is better to use highest heat and a good steam system. That is very important to lead you to a successful scoring. And I think that you better to slash just a little bit at 30 degree angle in a oven. I never done this before. pipo1000 Edwin did it once though..


======


 I tested to score at 30 degree with 4mm depth cuts (right) and 7mm depth cuts( left)-(I aimed at 1cm depth cuts) I put some shortening on my lame. I didn't use a hair dryer.  Using hair dryer  is not effective.  The dough was harder than usual... that doesn't taste right!  The dough should be softer and puffier at the end of the final shape!  They were burst because of underproof. I didn't do good job on the line. hmmm Practice Practice, Practice ....


-----Yesterday------


I used extra light virgin olive oil for scoring yesterday. That didn't work. picuture below:


 using a hair dryer, slashing at 40-45 degree with 8mm depth cuts ( I aimed at 1cm depth cuts)  They look flatten. I was not happy with it. And  again, It didn't taste right either.  Because of the weater!!! It was a cold day too.


I always cheer you up!


Akiko


 


 

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Akiko, I really admire your being so dedicated to achieve the better baguette - you are as good as the guys at America's test kitchen ("Cooks Illustrated") coming up with unorthodox methods - and we all can benefit from it!


Karin


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, Karin


Thank you for your lovey comment that made me happy! 


What a great website!  I checked out "Science" and read about " Kneading and autolysis" and " Flour type" after I signed in. I checked the all links off and chose the botton " No, thanks!" so I couldn't read as much as I wanted to read because that has a limitted number of topics.  But it was very interesting. Thank you, Karin!!   I am learing from you !!


By the way, I don't squeeze some shortening into the cuts anymore. After you mentioned about shortening, I agree with you about the flavor when I squeezed it in, I could taste it after baking.  It was very helpful, Karin. Thank you. 


Best wishes,


Akiko

davesmall's picture
davesmall

Akiko - In answer to your question, there was no bursting with the hot slashing method I used. Agree with you about the 30 degree angle.


Dave Small

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, davesmall,


I am glad that the baguette you made were not burst!  I have been annoyed with my baguettes that are burst a lot since I changed the poolish's time at the room temperature and there is another reasons were that the room temperature has changed because of the weather.  I have missed very important thing at the point. That was what you have to let the dough sit until the dough rises 1.5 volume!! 


I think 30 degree angle is working to me too. I lower my body to get the angle for the dough and slash with my rhythm. I try to not to stop one at time that will have unbalanced scoring lines.


Happy baking,


Akiko


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

* You can see why you should let the poolish at the room temperature until the dough rises 1.5 times.


Result : Ice cold water/ 1 hour at the room temperature


 


  This dough is 3 hours later. The dough was harder.


This angle was at 30 degree, the depth of cuts were around 4mm or so.


 both of two were burst.


These crumb were stuffed like eating sponges where there were no air pockets. They tasted less sweet and they were not shiny to compare to the others.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cold water /poolish 2 hours at the roomtempareture.


They rose 2 times in 2 hours.



3 hours later: It was really really plump and I had been puffy from beginning.


30 degree agnle/less 1cm depth.  These dough shrank a little bit after I scored that means the dough are overprooved.


Scoring was okay but they didn't have ears and blooms nicely becaue there were overproof at the very early stage.


Overproof...Thye were luck of moisture.But I like these crust. I used Arrowhead mill unbleached flour on the right. This flour is good.  And I  Used Gold medal ( unbleached AP flour) on the left.


-------------------------------------------------


Very cold water/ Poolish for 2 hours at the roomtempareture 1.5 volume.


 



I didn't take the picture of the stage that is after 3 hours, but you can see the dough is plump and the dough is soft.


angle 40 degree / less 1 cm cuts of the depth. ( I squeezed some shortening into the cuts at  this time. I prefer not to, I put some shortening on my lame though)



They didn't enough air pockets, but they tasted good.

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I did not need 2 hours at time moment, the room temperature is about 23 degrees and my baking room (where the oven in) is about 22 degrees. But I will keep an eye on the poolish. When I take it out of the fridge it has about double to tripled in size so it seem active.


Your shaping technique is very nice, the baguette is nicely even with good round ends, like they look like at the french bakers. Mine look a little bit more rustique...


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hi, Edwin


<But I will keep an eye on the poolish. When I take it out of the fridge it has about double to tripled in size so it seem active


It will active even if it is in a refrigerator, when the dough rises 1.5 times volume. Tonight, I set up 2 baguettes for tomorrow.  My kitchen room temperature was 74F or between 23℃-24℃ 


1. Ice cold water - It took 2 hours until the dough rose 1.5 times volume.


2. Cold water- It took 1 hour until the dough rose 1.5 times volume. ( you are right!)


I want to know how different these baguettes taste between using ice cold water and cold water for poolish.


----------------------


Thank you for your compliment :)  I just love to have a lot of crumb inside a baguette. I also want to get " ears" and " blooms"  like Gosselin baguettes! That is funny because I never tasted them, but I love their looking.  I admire your baguettes that are absolutely beautiful .Your shaping is very good, Edwin.



Look at this!! Your shaping skill is perfect!

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Back to 80% hydration, although 76% also works very well, but 80% is a bit more fun to work with, more of a challenge. I have changed a few little things; first of all after mixing the poolish with the ingredients I now have used a little 'autolyse' of 15 minutes to hydrate the newly added flour. After 15 minutes the 2 minutes of stretch and folds were easier because of the autolyse.


I also did not do the last stretch and fold at 03:00 just before the bench rest, I went directly into dividing and preshaping. While preshaping I was a bit more 'aggresive' on getting the rectangle right to aim for a more evenly shaped baguette. I used the same technique on the preshape as on the shape, a little bit of flour, press the dough down and out with your palms and tuck and roll into a cylinder. This way I got a nicer baguette shape and the shaping was more predictable and I needed less rolling to get to the right length. Actually it was a bit to easy, because all my baguettes were a bit to long. It did not seem to have a negative effect on the crumb and hole structure.


I almost forgot, I made 6 baguettes at once this time instead of 4 so I did load 3 baguettes on one go instead of 2. A bit more fun stress! I made 3 of them in the dragon tail pattern.

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 


<Back to 80% hydration, although 76% also works very well, but 80% is a bit more fun to work with, more of a challenge.


How were the 76% hydration baguettes's crust?  Is that as same as 80% hydration baguettes? 


<I now have used a little 'autolyse' of 15 minutes to hydrate the newly added flour. After 15 minutes the 2 minutes of stretch and folds were easier because of the autolyse.


I used the method from BBA before. I was kneading a lot at the time.. I think that sounds very good!


<I also did not do the last stretch and fold at 03:00 just before the bench rest..


That is another better ideas.. It might be not necessary..


<I almost forgot, I made 6 baguettes at once this time instead of 4 so I did load 3 baguettes on one go instead of 2. A bit more fun stress! I made 3 of them in the dragon tail pattern.


Wow, How was the baking ratio?  It went down a little bit?  You are so brave!!!  I was about to try the dragon tail but I couldn't... hmmm... I was coward...

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

I did not think there was a big difference in the crust, but I did not taste them next to each other. I think I sort of like the 80% better...


I forgot to measure the baking ratio and I did not have time of make a photo of the baguettes. Sorry, next time!


I think we may need the last stretch and fold at 03:00, because the baguette did flat out a little bit after scoring. I will try it again and let you know.


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 


About Flour:


If your flour is organic and does not contain malted barley flour, you should add 0.7% of diastatic barley malt powder to the flour blend. This malt powder will accelerate enzyme activity in the dough, resulting in a more colorful crust. ( That is noted by The Bread Baker's Apprentice.)


I forgot about this important note!! Other day, I made 2 baguettes for 2 days in a raw using Arrowhead Mills all purpose flour.  The crust was very crunchy but I tasted almost nothing. You can see the effect of malted barley flour when you see the Arrowhead Mills AP is really light yellow compare to the Gold medal.


 They were overproofed because I left the dough of poolish until it got 2 times in bulk.  But you can see the difference of the colors between left:organic which doesn't contain malted barley flour and right: Gold medal which has malted barley flour.


This is very important!   You will be disappointed when you taste it. I really enjoyed the crunchy crust but the crumb had no flavor.

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Strange... I use organic flour from a windmill and I get a nice golden brown color. Hmm, I will ask the miller next time if he adds any malted barley flour to the organic flour.


Nice evenly shaped baguettes with good oven spring!


 

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Hello, Edwin


I got some information from one of my friends who is Japanese started to make baguettes.  She checked her organic flour content, and it has malted barley flour.   I think that is depends on brands.


It is seemed to me that your flour contains malted barley flour because your crust are always nicely browned.


Thanks, Edwin.... I have trouble with the temperature now...  I shut off the central climate control and my husband decreased the temperature of the refrigerator yesterday from 5 to 4  and then today's baguettes came out disaster. Overproof again.


hmm...... Temperature is very important to make baguettes....I am annoyed...


Thank you for your compliment that made me feel better from the problem.


Akiko


 

pipo1000's picture
pipo1000

Hi,


With the baguette dough I have tried to make normal loafs of bread. I took 8 times the amount of this recipe and I baked 4  loafs. I only used 75% hydration instead of 80% so I could shape a nice loaf. I baked the loaf for 46 minutes at 235 celcius. I lowered the oven to 210 after 12 minutes. The crumb is moist, lovely and sweet;


 



 



 


teketeke's picture
teketeke

Wow, Edwin you really did a fantastic job. I can see how moist the crumb are! Of course, Great blooms and ears!!! 


I have had trouble with the tempareture for my baguette and the timing when it is ready to bake for levain bread and sourdough  for a while, and Vogel who is one of TFLERS helped me a lot.


I think that you may like the blog or someone who have troubles with the same thing like I had will be interested in too.


 


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19742/next-level


 


Best wishes,


Akiko