i only found one online mention of something similar
here http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28972/cheese-starter-culture-sourdough-starter
but i decided to try and redo/re-approach my experiments that i tried before.
maybe a year ago, i started trying to add cheese cultures to yeast biga and let them sit a while and keep feeding it; (also, with tribasic calcium phosphate Ca3(PO4)2, just in case it helped)
i was using safs pizza yeast (which i now found out, is why all my bread tasted too yeasty and terrible, no matter what i did)
i experimented with mixing different amounts of biga to pizza yeast dough, to make bread
it would not rise very fast or as much; but when allowed to be fully carmelized, in baking/toasting, and only then; it gained a slight fried cheese taste
i continued feeding it through the winter and just letting it kind of age; and i would catch whiffs of the swiss every now and then; or i really thought i did at least.
but unfortunately, i let it sit too long into the spring and it got all moldy.
i was using cheese cultures from thecheesemaker.com
and they were
•MSA adjunct culture
•Thermophillic C (“Thermophile Type C” from Biena)
•Propionibacteria shermanii (“Propionibacterium 50” from Biena)
•Mesophillic B
i’ll put these all at the bottom
So;
so i tried to make something similar using the yeast from the bottom of some beers, instead of instant pizza yeast; but after a day; the flour/water/yeast hadn’t done anything;
So i just dumped in the some of the remaining cheese cultures anyway and let it sit for 3 or more days.
then i added a small amount to a jar, with a real small amount of batter from a feeding the second day of a san francisco sourdough starter.
i now have added more cheese cultures to it to maybe rebalance it or give the ones i want a better ratio , but i also added a new mesophilic culture that has a lecconostoc in it (the links at the bottom of the top link , mention it delaying sourdough starting, but it also gives taste)
i also added only swiss cheese bacteria, the propionibacterium shermanii with the thermophile C culture to some flour/water; and put a tablespoon of the san francisco sourdough culture that i’m starting, to it.
also, there is the plain san francisco sourdough culture
i took some notes here, just so i don’t lose anything if i need to re trace my steps;
) empty salt jar, regular rubber band, one coffee filter
- added about 3/4 to 1 Tbl cheese bacteria mix* to a smidge of some sourdough starter mix , along with 1 Tbl flour and 1 Tbl water
- •• added ~a heaping 1/8 to a 1/4 tsp propionibacterium shermanii and the same of thermophilic culture C
- •• and also about a 1/4 tsp of flora danica mesophilic culture
- •• added 2 or 3 Tbl water and flour
*this was from capt lawrence 6.5% beer yeast with flour and water and then after a day of nothing, MSA adjunct culture was added along with thermophile C, mesophile B (? i think it was B) and propionibacterium shermanii; it didn’t get as much shermanii as the other experiment next to it which i thought smelled more swissy after a day but was with loganitas maximus yeast which i figured would be bad tasting, so i threw it out. this one smelled more cheddary but not, more of something else but not swissy.
) mason jar, blue rubber band, one coffee filter
•san francisco sourdough culture
•1 Tbl flour , 1Tbl water
sat for 24 or 48 hour, dried out a little
••added 2 Tbl flour and about 3 Tbl water instead of two
) mason jar, regular rubber band, two coffee filter
• added ~a heaping 1/8 to a 1/4 tsp propionibacterium shermanii and the same of thermophilic culture C
•and also added 1 tsp of the sourdough mix from above
•added 1 Tbl flour and water or maybe two
if it turns out nice; i’ll have notes;
i also got some beer yeast to try and make a sourdough culture with, with the cheese cultures. it is a •“Wyeast 1968 London ESB Ale” yeast and i hope i can get it to do it’s own culture or mix it with the san francisco sourdough; to get the diacetyl, so it is buttery.
i think it is a decently fast fermenter, so it seemed it could be alright for a bread
(i also want to see if i can make real butterbeer like the idea in harry potter, slightly sweet, if the malt is just right, and hopefully just enough diacetyl)
there’s also a yeast called “Omega Yeast 212 BRING ON DA FUNK”, i’m curious about trying to make a sourdough with.
i am kind of just improvising as i go; so hopefully i get something good
cultures:
+Flora Danica Mesophilic Culture
- (LMC) Leuconostoc mesenteroides subsp. cremoris
- (LLC) Lactococcus lactis subsp. cremoris
- (LL) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis
- (LLD) Lactococcus lactis subsp. lactis biovar diacetylactis
+Biena Thermophile Type C Culture
- (ST) Streptococcus thermophilus
- (LH) Lactobacillus helveticus
+Biena Mesophile Aroma Culture Type B
Mesophile Aroma Culture Type B is comprised of various bacterial strains such as Lactococcus Lactis, subspecies Lactis; Lactococcus Lactis, subspecies Diacetylactis; Lactococcus Lactis, subspecies Cremoris; and Leuconostoc Mesenteroides, subspecies Cremoris.
+ Biena Propionibacteria Shermanii
Propionibacteria freudenreichii subsp. shermanii
whoot whoot
+Choozit MVA Adjunct Culture, MVA LY0 10D
Staphylococcus xylosus II
at the time of adding these strain names; i realized the Meso B culture had leuconostoc in it; which would be holding back yeast expression, even before i added the flora danica one that also has it. i want all the flavors though, so i don’t know if it co-exists or is dropped out as the next “torch” is passed through bacterial stages; before yeast can express. i hope it works out, like san franscisco sourdough, and the cultures contribute and that they aren’t out competed or at a lower torch tier, to add to flavor complexity in a final bread rise of 12-24 hour, where the bacteria (i’m guessing) expresses its products (but also, cheese has to age to get the real deal; so my original idea was to let the biga age with barely any added feeding; to keep it concentrated; but mainly let it hit a different chemical production zone; meanwhile keeping it maybe resilient enough to fend off mold at low temperature, or done in a way that cheese is done, however, to keep the infections out; like a tight sealed container instead of wax , and wine cooler/fridge temperatures. it would by no means be efficient; but it could be a great way to make cheezy bread without dairy (the actual feed stock for the cultures are milk, unfortunately (i’m vegan); and it is unfortunately the only option for the cell lines at the moment)
