August 23, 2021 - 4:42pm
Variation in Crumb
Hey Everyone,
I've noticed that the batards I've been baking have an uneven crumb structure through out the loaf. The ends are open and the middle is closed and heavy. I'm assuming this is a shaping issue. Has anyone else encountered this and found a solution to making an even structure. I'm really aiming for the more open crumb. I've included some pictures.
Thanks for taking a look!
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How do you proof them? And how do you bake?
Hi llya,
I proof them in plastic oval bread baskets lined with a linen towel. The top of the basket measures 9 1/4" x 7" and the bottom measures 6" x 3 1/2"
I either go a full 24 hours cold proof in the fridge or I'll proof them at room temperature for 3 - 4 hours then into the fridge for either 8 -12 hours depending on my schedule that day.
I bake 3 at a time on preheated ceramic tiles going in at 500^F and immediately drop to 450^F after they're loaded.
If baking cold don't. Enjoy!
Thanks for the tip.
Just for general knowledge, when baking straight from the fridge, there is a possibility that the crust will form before the denser parts of the dough get a chance to warm and expand fully. Enjoy!
I'm definitely going to give it a try. Do you suggest bringing it all the way to room temp before baking?
If i go overnight in the fridge (which i do occasionally to fit a schedule) I'll give it an hour or 2 to warm up before baking. That's not saying you can't do it, but I've always found better results when i didn't. Enjoy
Very good. I'll try an hour and see how it goes. I appreciate the help.
OK, thanks phaz.
Are you saying don't bake retarded loaves straight from the fridge?
Most bakers here who do a cold retard will bake from straight out of the fridge. Going from cold where much of the CO2 is dissolved in the dough along with the ethanol to suddenly hot gives explosive oven spring. Much of what you’re seeing with the more closed crumb in the center and more open at the ends is related to physics. There is more weight of dough at the center of a hearth loaf where it is thickest compared with the ends which tend to be shorter. So there is more dough weight to raise in the center compared to the ends. If I do a cold retard I always bake from cold with few exceptions such as baguettes where I have to divide and shape and then proof again.
Benny
Thanks for the info! The physics makes sense to me. I realized later that the multigrain and seeded breads I bake do not have this uneven crumb structure.
Your bread looks good! I'd eat it and be happy with it.
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Two clues illustrate this might be more than (or maybe even other than) a proving or fermentation issue.
1. The bottom cust of the center section is thinner and lighter than the end section.
2. There is a layer or sliver of under-cooked crumb at the bottom center. (though this might also be a sign of collapse due to overfermentation in that area.)
These two things strongly suggest that the center of the tiles were not up to full temp.
So Ilya did well to ask about the baking setup. Let's go there.
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You said "tiles", plural. Were they stacked on top of each other? That would be a less-good thing because the center of the top tile might not get hot enough unless they laid perfectly perfectly perfectly flat against each other. Any tiny sliver of air space would act as insulation.
How thick are these tiles? If thick, or if they were stacked vertically, they need an additional 20 to 30 minites of pre-heat ___after___ the air temp in the oven reaches the pre-heat temp. It takes tile/stone longer to pre-heat than air. (Even with extra pre-heat, vertical stacking of tile is less-good, because the top layer re-heats slower after the colder dough is placed on it.)
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Steaming method: Sometimes people use too much water, or don't pre-boil the water, or don't pre-heat the steam pan. Water needs to be near boiling when added. Pan needs to be pre-heated. No more than 1 cup, 240 ml. Maybe half that in a smaller built-in-the-wall oven.
Too much steam, at 212 F cools down the 450 F oven. And steam rises (h2o is lighter than o2 and n2) , so it hits the underside of the stone/tile and cools it down.
Also, if the steam pan was not wide/long enough, at least as wide/long as the dough, the rising steam, and therefore the cooling effect would have been concentrated right above it. Maybe you had a smallish pan centered right under the dough?
Was the steam pan under, next to, or above the loaves?
So ..., if any of the above happened, the center of the tiles/stone got cool, and the center part of the loaf was subect to less heat than the ends, and tended toward under-baked. It takes a good "burst" of high heat up front to get the desired oven-spring. I'm thinking maybe the center didn't get that up-front burst like the ends did.
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So if you could please describe the composition, size and placement of the tiles (with thickness too), size and placement of the steam pan, how much water, and its temp, that might provide additional clues.
Are the tiles truely "ceramic" as opposed to "just clay" or "quarry tiles" ? Glazed or unglazed? Were they sold as baking tiles, or are they flooring tiles? Are they unglazed "quarry" tiles or "travertine?"
Thanks for all the detailed questions.
I believe the tiles are ceramic. They're unglazed and sold as flooring tiles, 1/2" thick. Singled stacked on the bottom rack with a deck size of 15 1/2" x 17 3/4". I did notice some spacing gaps that I've been ignoring so I will fix that.
For the steam. I have a 9"x9" cast iron pan with a length of chain coiled on the pan which is placed on the bottom of the oven. Once pre-heated, I use a riveted pie tin that I place, on average, 4 oz (by weight) of ice into and then slide on top of the chain. The pan is placed in the back of the oven to avoid any water splashing on the glass door.
I usually pre-heat for 30 minutes at 465 before going on up to 500 for the last 15 before the bread is loaded.
Ok, there are several things going on that need addressed.
First, I'm going to make a side trip into the tiles, because this is a serious health and safety issue. I suspect, I hope, those are actually "quarry" tiles, and you are just calling them by the wrong name. Let's explore this issue first.
1. tiles. You might be using the word "ceramic" in the wrong sense. "Ceramic" tiles, as the floor tile makers use the word, is not about clay or pottery. It has a special meaning.
Here's why I am making a big deal about this. Ceramic floor tiles, which are usually white-ish or off-white-ish (not the darkish brown/red/orange "quarry" tiles) , give off dangerous gas as they are baked. I've contacted a floor tile manufacturer and they explicitly said don't use ceramic tiles for baking. Third parties, not the tile makers, say that quarry tiles and travertine tiles are usually okay. But if you want to be sure, use tiles/stones that are specifically made for baking.
I am so hoping those tiles are reddish/brownish/orange-ish. Those would be called "quarry tiles" in the US. Given that they are 1/2" thick, this is most likely.
So... What color are the tiles? Can you upload some pictures? Side/bottom, and side/top shots (called "3/4 view") would be great.
This is so important to your health that if we can't verify that they are in fact quarry tiles, then I would recommend that you take one back to the tile store or home-supply store and ask them to confirm whether it is ceramic tile or quarry tile, according to tile-maker terminology, not according to "colloquial" use. Compare it to the store's "ceramic"-labeled versus "quarry"-labeled tiles on hand.
Again, I'm hoping the tiles are okay, and that you just used the wrong word to describe them.
(I'll go on one further aside here.... natural stone such as marble or granite can be used as baking stones if there are absolutely no "fillers" used which can off-gas and poison you. Fillers are epoxy. Fillers are fine for countertops and flooring, but not for baking stones.)
2. Make sure there is at least 1.5" clearance between the tiles and the side walls, back walls, and oven door. This is needed for proper heat circulation, so the tiles won't cause warping of the walls of the oven and burn the insulation.
3. The bottom of the oven hides the lower heating element. Having the steam pan there interferes with heat flow. see: https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/68696/what-happened and read the comments on what to do. I also explain there how you can know/verify that there is a lower heating element under the floor plate of the oven.
4.Water, not ice needs to be used. Ice takes time to turn to steam, and robs heat from the oven. Ice only works for very small amounts and in specific circumstances.
5. The middle area of those thick tiles is not getting hot enough, as evidenced by the thinner and lighter bottom crust of the center section of the bread. Pre heat the whole time, 45 min, at 500 F, though 495 F might be a bit safer, if the max is 500'F. (Even partially covering the lower floor (and the enclosed heating element) with the steam pan sitting directly on the floor also prevents proper heat flow during both pre-beat and bake.)
6. Just for the sake of completeness, are you covering the loaves with anything during baking, like a cloche or inverted pot?