The Fresh Loaf

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100% Hydration, 100% Whole Grain Kamut Flat Boule with YW and SD Combo Starter

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dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

100% Hydration, 100% Whole Grain Kamut Flat Boule with YW and SD Combo Starter

It is really odd and slightly annoying that the spell checker wants to replace kamut with kaput.  Is this a pre-judgment before the start?   But, after seeing the results that Michael Wilson achieved with his similar White Spelt Bread here

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/29146/100-white-spelt-100-hydration

 

We decided that spell checkers are way more stupid than my apprentice who is one sharp cookie for a ‘Dumb Doxie’ with a large nose for fine baking .......and a tummy to prove it.

We also looked at Shaio-Ping’s 100% Spelt and txfarmer’s more recent one too to see what we could glean from them here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/13934/100-spelt-levain-bread               and here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/28388/100-spelt-sourdough-trying-spelt-first-time

 

We were going to take up Michael’s challenge but white spelt is no where to be found.  When we tried to get a half pound of kamut berries out of the Whole Foods bin, we dropped 3 pounds in the bag in a flash by mistake.  Since there is no way to put it back, we immediately decided to do a 100% kamut with 100% hydration bread instead but those weren’t the only changes we had in store since then we had no idea what they might end up being  after my apprentice got her paws in the mix.

 

We didn’t read Mini Oven’s many kamut experiments from 2008 – 2009 that explain anything one would need to make a 100% kamut bread or one with soakers, scalds, sprouts …etc !  We would have made a different bread had we known what we learned from her and others old posts on kamut.

 

Our bake isn’t like Michael’s in many important ways that I personally find attractive and worth talking about even though my apprentice says I am just lazy to do it right like Michael does.   First off, we used home ground whole Kamut and it is way more thirsty than white spelt so the 100% hydration problems are thankfully reduced a great deal.  We used a YW and kamut SD starter instead of commercial yeast since we don’t have any and built this combo levain over (2) 4 hour and (1) 2 hour builds.

We also are never going to hand knead anything for 40 minutes unless it is large gold bars that are too heavy to pick up but safely stored in my bank vault – and only if they might need some light dusting and quick shine. 

   

'Oh Mon Dieu Pain Rustique' is the new name for this bread :-)

We also added a little VWG, white and red diastatic and non-diastatic malts and a little honey - not much of any of them though.  We also added our take of some of txfarmer’s 36 hour method; starting with a 10 hour retard after the kamut levain build was completed.

 

We incorporated the water flour, malts and honey with the dough flour and autolysed it for 10 hours in the fridge too.  Both were taken out of the fridge and allowed to come to room temperature the next day for 2 hours making a total of 12 hours total before mixing them together in the KA.

Rather than hand kneading we mixed the dough in the KA on speed 2 for 8 minutes and on speed 3 for 2 minutes before resting it in a plastic covered oiled bowl for 20 minutes.  It passed the window pane test but we were not done with it.

We then performed 4 sets of S&F’s at 10 minutes each – about 25 stretches with ¼ turns of the dough the first time going down 5 stretches each set there after.  The last turn was 10 stretches with quarter turns making a total of 70 for all 4 sets.

After all of that it had some structure we thought might work out.  It formed a very smooth and elastic dough, if still a little wet that was about as pleasing a dough ball can get without pinching it hard and seeing if it squeals.

 

The dough was then allowed to ferment undisturbed for 60 minutes before going into a well rice floured oval basket, placed inside a tall kitchen trash bag and put in the fridge for its 12 hour proofing retard - but it was ready to go in 5 hours.  Kamut can be tricky going from under proofed to collapse in short order if not watched.  We originally wanted to bake this in the mini under the bottom of the DO used as a cloche but decided that the dough needed some structure so we opted for Big Betsy GE and baking inside a hot DO.

 

After the oven was pre heated to 500 F and the stone brought up to temperature on the bottom rack (about 40 minutes total) and the aluminum w/glass lid DO preheated with them, the dough was retrieved from the fridge.  The dough was overturned from the basket into a now parchment lined hot DO.

This dough is very fragile and the least little thing will damage it.  In this case it wasn’t a little thing - it stuck to the basket.  After un-sticking and mangling it terribly, it was slashed, covered and placed into the oven on the 2nd rack level where it baked at 450 F with the lid on for 20 minutes.

Then the lid was removed and the bread was baked for another 5 minutes at 425 F convection this time before being removed from the DO and placed directly on the stone (removing the 2nd level rack) to finish baking.  The bread was rotated 90 degrees every 5 minutes until the internal temperature reached 205 F - another 15 minutes.   We didn’t catch ours in time and it read 210 F so another 10 minutes and 30 minutes total would be better.

A very nice lunch with 2 kinds of pickes, Creole grilled chicken sandwich, fetta and brie cheese, carrot coins, celery and red pepper sticks, small salad with tomato, cantaloupe cubes and a half each peach and mango.  Look at the beautiful yellow color, like semolina, of the kamut compared to the 25% multi grain SD bread next to it for comparison.

The flat bread was allowed to rest on the stone, oven off and door ajar for 10 minutes before being removes to a cooling rack.

It baked up beautifully brown and crunchy on the outside as DO’s are wont to do, going chewy as it cooled.  But the loaf was badly mangled and it spread rather than sprang as a result.  The inside crumb structure was partially destroyed having deflated 50% without recovery but it was still surprisingly open for 100% whole grain bread. This is the hallmark YW makes on whole grain bread crumb structure.

The crumb was a beautiful yellow like semolina, soft, moist even though slightly over baked and had a slight SD tang that was muted.   The YW combo starter making up half the levain cuts the SD tang a like amount.

This bread doesn’t taste like rye, or whole wheat or even spelt for that matter – which would probably be the closest in taste.  It has an earthy base and a grassy note.  We love this bread toasted with just butter to cover. 

Kamut is a new and welcome addition to the grain standard bearers we have used in the past.   A tasty loaf of bread for sure even when it sticks to the basket like this one did to disfigure itself beyond recognition.

We are guessing that this high hydration bread needs to be baked in a loaf pan to get the most out of the open crumb that is possible or baked as a flat bread or ciabatta – as Mini Oven found out 3 years ago. The formula brings up the rear as usual.

100% Hydration and 100% Whole Kamut Tartine Boule

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mixed Starter

Build 1

Build 2

 Build 3

Total

%

Spelt SD Starter

10

10

0

20

4.83%

Yeast Water

20

20

0

40

13.16%

Kamut

40

50

10

100

32.89%

Water

20

30

10

60

19.74%

Total Starter

90

110

20

220

72.37%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Starter

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration

100.00%

 

 

 

 

Levain % of Total

25.61%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Dough Flour

 

%

 

 

 

Non - Diastatic Red  Malt

2

0.66%

 

 

 

Kamut

300

98.68%

 

 

 

Diastatic White Malt

2

0.66%

 

 

 

Dough Flour Total

304

100.00%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Salt

6

1.97%

 

 

 

Water

310

101.97%

 

 

 

Dough Hydration

101.97%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Total Flour

414

 

 

 

 

Water

420

 

 

 

 

T. Dough Hydration

101.45%

 

 

 

 

Whole Grain %

100.00%

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hydration w/ Honey

100.12%

 

 

 

 

Total Weight

859

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Honey

9

2.96%

 

 

 

VW Gluten

10

3.29%

 

 

 

Total

19

6.25%

 

 

 

 

Comments

mwilson's picture
mwilson

You did well putting the dough together, looks lovely and smooth.

Nice colour, shame about the sticking and consequent deformation. The final look is what's known as "rustic" :)

Despite that the crumb looks pretty good indeed!

Well done my man.

Thanks for taking up my challenge. I'm off to buy some Kamut!

Regards,
Michael

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

10 minutes with the KA and 70 S&F's over an hour the dough was nice and smooth and had some structure but I could have done S&F's for another hour  too and would have been better.  It reminded my of the your spelt photo quite a bit.

It did end up with quite a bit if 'Rustic' in this loaf and we too were amazed that the crumb came out as open as it did.  Thanks for the compliment but I have to admit I also bought enough spelt berries to give your challenge a real go with no changes.  I'm doing upper body weight training right now, with two fingers and some head muscle,  just to try to get in shape for the 40 minutes of French slap and folds and other hand kneading required for the challenge.  I am going to try and do some sifting of the ground berries so what % extraction did you use?  I really must be sick even talking about sifting :-)

You will like this bread a lot and it will suit your baking to a Tee.   It bakes up well in a DO  or covered with one but you will surly get enough structure to bake it  on a stone with steam.  We like the taste and the yellow cast of the crumb.  The YW really helped the open crumb like it always does with high percent whole grain breads.

Once again thanks for your comments - very inspirational as was your spelt post,

mwilson's picture
mwilson

...upper body weight training.  Hahaha. :) You may need it ;)

Call me crazy but I once, with a sweet dough, did the french slap and folds for nearly 2hrs!!! Obviously I was sweating buckets but sometimes I just can't stop 'til I'm done!

I don't know the % extraction. If you do sift you'll need a very fine mesh. I have a tamis that does the job well.

An idea for you... You could blitz all the sifted bran into a fine powder and fold it back into the dough once kneaded fully. 

I just like to be different and set myself challenges. I'm chuffed to know that I have inspired you.

Cheers,

Michael :)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

to put the bran back into the dough with some folds once it is  developed.  Never would have thought about it and we want as much whole grain in our bread without wasting any.  Now that Andy's Brazil Nut and Prune Bread is out of the way, just delicious by the way and we recommend it highly,  we can start grinding spelt.

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Great Kamut bread, DA! This is an ancient grain... And first try, i think you did A wonderful job.

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Legend says the kernels were found in the Pharaohs Tombs but it turned out it was einhorn found there instead which was the real Egyptian Royal Grain.  Then others said Kamut was King Tut's Wheat - who knows?  Then it was considered and called Balady Durum or 'native durum' to Egypt but most authorities think it probably came from Greece, Rome or the Byzantines - but even they don't really know.  It has been called Camel's Tooth and Phrophet's Wheat too and some say it was the grain that Noah brought with him on his ark.  All of the above history came from Kamut's web site.  What we do know is that it is a very ancient grain like einhorn, emmer, farro and spelt.  It is a very tasty durum for sure and a fine grain for bread making. 

You are right - it is a first try and we will attempt it many times as the years go by.

Thanks for reminder of its very interesting and ancient, if disputed, origins as well as your compliment!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Certainly you mean Einkorn (with a "k")

Great looking moon rock you got there!  It is amazing that you insist on putting any dough over 80% hydration into a basket.  I would have given up long ago.  Pushing the limits eh?   :)

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

spelling poorly once again.   Oddly the spell checker says to replace Einhorn with Enron or Inchon.   It also says to replace einkorn with unicorn.  So much for not knowing how to spell.

It looks like a rock on the outside for sure but I'm not sure it came from the moon or gates of hell :-)  All I know is my apprentice still hasn't learned her lesson.  First she took Andy's Roasted Brazil Nut and Prune Bread, forgot 100 g of bread flour which took Andy's hydration from 68% to 85%.  When I mixing this soup just as bad as this, 100 % Hydration Kamut, I said this isn't like any 68% hydro dough I have seen.

Then she compounded the error by proofing it a basket too and this Desem SD with no YW at all.  The prognosis after taking off the DO bottom we are using as a cloche is that this will be another flat boule moon rock on the outside too ....but also be a full on brick bat too!   At least it rained very hard today , a real desert monsoon rain, so we took advantage, went out earlier and played in it like a bunch of kids  - so today is not a total loss :-)

I think the basket hydro limit has been reached and it cannot be broken through.   We are getting really good at flat boules and moon rock replicas though :-)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and lots of other words...  

http://ecosia.org/

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

einkorn has half the chromosomes as the next closest and oldest grain known - kamut.  The next grain closest to kamut is  spelt and it has twice as many chromosomes as kamut.  It seems is is all in the chromosomes when it comes to grains used in bread.

Thanks for the link Mini.  Do you bake in a mini oven too?

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Evening Mr. D.

When I read you were going to attempt a 100% Kamut loaf I kept my fingers away from the keyboard so as not to influence your outcome by my remarks.  I have waited patiently for you post and now my digits can type away.....

The results you got were exactly the same that I got over a year ago when I attempted something very similar.  My kids love the Kamut flavor and I had always made it up in sandwich loaves but wanted to use it in a free form loaf.  I got a frisbee loaf.  Tasty but flat....

It was after that loaf that I began to read up on it and I can't recall where I got my info. but now if I make a loaf with a high percentage of Kamut it goes into a loaf pan.  So far when I have been adding it to free form loaves I have been keeping it at 25% and I  get good results.  Haven't ventured above that amount yet.  I do add it to my leaven flour at 25%.  Seems to keep it less sour.

Anyway, thanks for the post and photos.  I look forward to reading about more of your adventures with this flour and would love to hear about your apprentices observations....always the astute observer.

Take Care,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

if it wouldn't have stuck to the basket it would have only lost half the height that it did but that 'flat  boule', as I have titled it being generous,  sure had an open crumb for being mangled so badly which was surprising.   It sure looks and tastes good.  I was most upset about not being able to bake it in the mini oven but glad I did read all of you gals  posts from so long ago to at least know to get it into a DO because it was going to spread and needed lateral support.  I'm going to try a 100% spelt before going back to this one though.  The YW made all the difference in the proofing rise during retard in the fridge.  Here's why.

Being onto high hydration, I took Andy's fresh yeast recipe for Roasted Brazil Nut and Prune bread that we have wanted to bake for a long time and instead of using his 68% hydration we made it at 85% hydration Desem SD and upped the WW from 25% to 35% and added a WW berry scald.  It was just as slack as the 100% Kamut but it didn't do anything in the fridge overnight as far as proofing volume goes because no YW was in the mix.  My apprentice thinks there is a very good chance this bake later today will not only be a frisbee but a brick too :-)

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

I have baked this loaf but stuck to the HL as listed.  I used 100% ww.  Trick with that is that when there is a high sugar content room time prior to refrig. is a necessity.  Everything takes longer to get going.  Your use of YW would help because it would add more yeast. I will sometimes use IY at .08% on doughs that have high sugar content just to help out.  It does act like your YW in opening up the crumb and makes things happen a bit faster too.  I just find that keeping IY in the cupboard is easier than maintainging YW....Mine frequently got forgotten and would get way too ripe simply because I wasn't using it often enough!  Just one to many things to attend to....When I removed a portion I never was quite sure if I should just add more water to the jar but then the quandry arose about how long to let the new water sit with the old YW before it was ready to be used in a recipe....I suppose I could have just let a jar sit out on the counter all of the time and daily removed some and added new water but then, when it was warm, it would ripen too quickly.  

How do you maintain yours so it isn't too much work?  What proportion to the total flour do you use in your breads?  If I can come up with an easy way to do this maybe I will try it one more time.  A good challenge for the coming winter. :-)

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

SD and YW together we cut back the recipe amount of  SD in half to get the same amount of yeast.  YW just isn't affected by the cold.  It ferments away no problem at low temps.  Otherwise we replace the entire SD with  YW or if the recipe calls for commercial yeast we replace it with YW since we don't stock any commercial yeasts.

The care of YW is no different than SD.  We keep both in fridge.  When we fed the YW we keep a few pieces of the old fruit and about 2 T of the old water and freeze the rest of the old fruit for ice cream toppers or bread add ins.  We dice half an apple , might throw in a couple of halved cherries (no pits) and 1/2 tsp of sugar and 1 1/2 tsp of honey and fill the rest of the reused 18 oz peanut butter jar 3/4 full of water and shake it well until the honey is dissolved.   Let it sit out for about  2 hours at room temp shaking every so often then into the fridge it goes.  It is really ready to go in a couple of days.

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Well, your method of maintenance is a lot simpler than the one I was attempting to keep up with.  

I do my SD differently.  I bake daily so I do 3 builds every day and the left over for the next day (about 10-20g) gets fed a bit and then into the refrig. until morning when it will be the seed for the builds of the day.  Only SD that gets stored in the refrig. is my back up jar in the event of an accident, heaven forbid, with my daily builds.  It gets replaced once every two weeks or so - when it looks 'spent'.

When I was experimenting with YW I had always left it out on the counter to ferment thinking all fermenting stopped or slowed way down in the refrig. or that it would get too 'alcoholic' in the cold.  I was also under the impression that it had to be stirred or shaken several times a day to give it a fresh supply of oxygen to keep it going.

So, if I am understanding what you have written - that isn't true?  It will stay fresh and alive?

Do you then simply remove what you need from your jar when you use it in a formula and then feed it only when it gets very low?

I am thinking I was probably over feeding mine hence the strong alcohol aroma or maybe that was due to being kept on the counter rather than in the refrig.

I might give this a go and am thinking I will have to figure out a way to keep it always 'ready' since I bake daily.  If it is similar to SD wouldn't it work to remove the amount I need and replace that amount immediately and let it sit out on the counter to 'ripen'.  I can't imagine that it wouldn't ferment rather quickly that way.  (Eg. Keep 800g fed and ready.  Remove 100g for a bake.  Add 100g of fresh water to the 700g remaining in my jar ...... Remove 'spent' fruit as necessary and replace with fresh food.....)

Time to rethink my procedures because yours sure looks a lot simpler than what I came up when attempting this.

Thanks for your help!

Janet

 

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

my YW is on the counter is for the 2 hours right after I feed it.  The rest of the time it is in the fridge.  No shaking required.  After feeding I don't use it for a couple of days and then it is ready to go.  I bake with it once or twice a week taking what I need and then back into the fridge it goes.  After a couple of weeks, the water doen't cover the fruit anymore and that is when I feed it.   No muss, no fuss, just like my SD.  I keep about 70 g if it - stiff in the fridge at 65% or so.  We take about 10-20 g from it for every bake we make from it (I keep rye sour, desem and now Kamut that I am going to turn back into spelt).   When it gets down to 10 g then we feed it over 2 builds and build it back to 70 g, let it rise 25% after the last feeding and then in the fridge it goes.   No waste that way .

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Thanks for the detailed description of how you tend your YW.  Very different from the instructions I was following when I attempted keeping some.  Your method is far easier to maintain so I am going to start up another jar and see what results!

I used to keep my SD like you do but when I began baking daily I changed to the pattern I am currently in now.  No waste this way either which I like too.

I used to keep several types of SD too but when I began doing several builds during the day for my evening's dough I simplified and now only keep one which is 75% white ww and 25% Kamut.  When I want a spelt leaven I use my ww starter and the flour in all the feeds in spelt so the percentage of ww and Kamut is minimal by the time I end up with the amount I am aiming for.  I do this for a rye sour too though I do build those at a higher HL.  Like you I keep my ww at about 65% HL.  With my rye sour builds I hydrate at at least 80% or more.  

I will let you know how my YW experiment progresses.  Does yours ever get a strong alcoholic smell or does it stay nice and fruity?

Thanks,

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

stays nice and fruity and we usually have to feed it every two weeks - we do bake with it a lot though.  I actually story my  SD starters in  one used frosting plastic cup.  I separate them with plastic wrap and call it a SD Hi-Rise  Condo :-)

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

This time my fingers are demanding that I share with you the following before you bake :-)

Spelt will behave differently than Kamut does.  Here is a wonderful formula posted by Juergen that I have baked many times and it always turns out great.  Nice firm and tall loaves.  A chance to use your rye malt :-)

When I bake this bread I build a spelt leaven throughout the day.  I pre-ferment 16% of the flour at 65% HL and each build takes about 2-3 hours.  In the evening I mix the leaven with the rest of the ingredients - except the malt - and let it rest for about an hour to absorb the water.  I then add the malt and mix until I get a nice smooth dough.  I imagine you can mix as much as you want and then do S&Fs.  I then let it sit covered at room temp. for a couple of hours to give the yeast a chance to start up (My temps here are in the mid 70° at that time of night so watch yours because I know your temps are a lot hotter....).  I put it into the refrig. once it has risen a bit and there it remains until the morning.  In the AM it comes out for a couple of hours to warm up prior to being shaped and proofed and baked.

Nice dough and very easy to handle.  Very extendable.

Have fun :-)

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

I had Juergen's fine 100% spelt post on my to do bake list and favorites list too so thanks for the other method info.  I'm not sure, after the last two bakes over 85%, that my apprentice will let me go back to 70% hydration or not?  Who knows what mistake we will make next, we might not have enough water next time and end up with spelt bagels :-)  We are out of bagels right now too. 

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Like you, I have learned many a trick here to apply as needed.... :-)  My bagel bake a couple of days ago ended up close to being burned....I have explained to my 15 year old son that dark crusts = caramelization but he won't buy it.  My neighbor LOVES anything and especially my dark crusted specialities so she got most of the results from that batch.  She loved them and ate 3 as we chatted over the fence..

If your spelt gets turned into bagels due to low hydration I am sure you will land on your feet as you always do.  I always learn something new when I read your write-ups :-)

Janet

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

new.  I usually am suprised as the next person at what I should have known but was too stupid to not know much, much less what I didn't know :-)  Andy's  Brazil Nut and Prune bread with the hyrdation error my apprentice made turned out OK, fairly open for so much stuff in it and whole grains and just terrific tasting.  We really like that bread.

Thanks again.

isand66's picture
isand66

Sorry DA for being so late to the party.  I think I had actually been the first to comment on this bake but I was half asleep and was doing it on my phone and it must not have gone through.  Now that I recall what I had written I am upset it never went though.  I believe I was comparing your above bake to Beauty and the Beast.  As they say "Beauty is in the Eye of the beholder" and I think your apprentice would rather prefer a disc shaped bread anyway!

It's what's inside that counts :) and your crumb looks excellent to me.

I'm sure next time if you try this recipe you will have a perfectly good outside as well.

Regards,
Ian

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

the name of this bread to  - 'Oh mon Dieu' Pain Rustique and will be hard pressed to duplicate it again :-)  Your Beauty the Beast analogy fits too.  We will soon try this technique out on some spelt and see if it wants to be Pain Rustique too!  This bread sure tastes good and looks nice even if a little beastly  on the outside - the crumb takes the cake though - as you noticed.  My apprentice isn't into looks too much but sure likes the smells and taste of anything food wise, good or bad.

It is good to not be so discriminating sometimes :-)

Thanls for you comments and look forward to your next bake.  We did pizza last night.  My wife said the crust was too thick, even though it was very thin, because last time it was thinner - when we made it on the gas grill.  Very discriminating and non discriminating these women I am surrounded with can be at times!  My wife also said Andy's Brazil Nut and Prune Bread was too nutty.  She doesn't like nuts in anything including Banana Nut Bread though so she is not a good judge :-)

Thanks for commenting - liked the B & the B analogy.