Hi, Awesome bread. Which version is shown in your photo? Semolina or not? Thanks.                                                                                             weavershouse

damn - that's some of the prettiest darn bread I've seen in a long while!

Looks like this dough would make great pizza.  When you have the dough up in the air to stretch and fold it prior to baking, stretch it into a rough  pizza shape, put it onto parchment, slap on the toppings and go. I use my ciabatta recipe for pizza all the time and it is terrific. You might want to crank up the oven as high as it will go for pizza though.

Paul Kobulnicky

Baking in Ohio

The crumb was Magnificent! Mine didn't get nearly as brown as yours. Any ideas regarding that? I must admit I've never worked with such gloppy wet dough but now I "get it" and it really does make the crumb we're all looking for in this type of bread. Have you tried adapting this recipe to sour dough?

Trish in Omaha

The problem with my ciabatta is that the crust is too thick and hard (forget chewy, mine is a real challenge on the jaws).  Could you please tell me if and how (in detail please) you steam? 

Thanks.

Wow, I see someone made a wonderful, airy ciabatta with white spelt flour. I'll have to try that when my mom comes to visit.

Hi there--from a new member of the Fresh Loaf!  I'll post an introduction on the appropriate board, but I had to first post my reaction to this formula.  It's amazing!  I just took my first batch out of the oven this afternoon.  Beautiful browned loaves, my first try at ciabatta.  I used KAF bread flour, kosher salt and SAF instant yeast.  I mixed it with my Kitchen Aid for 20 minutes after the 10-minute rest, which was enough to achieve the climbing dough as described.  I placed the dough in a Rubbermaid canister and measured it along the side so I could be sure it tripled, which was going to be a final rise height of 6" in my container.  I set a timer for 2.5 hours and was shocked to see it had gotten to 7 " in an hour and a half!  That was just at normal room temp in my kitchen (this is the South, but still, we have the AC on).

I baked the loaves, on parchment and on my stone, in two batches at 500 in my regular old electric oven.  I did use a steam pan and three consecutive sprays from a mister as PR advocates in the BBA.  It took 20 minutes to get the nice, reddish-brown color that I was looking for.  And, wow, is all I can say.  For a pretty short fermentation, this bread delivers fantastic flavor.  And the crumb is so moist!

This was my first time working with such a slack dough (with the exception of Pain a l'Ancienne).  I'm no whiz at math, but am I correct in figuring that this formula is at 95% hydration?  The huge holes in the crumb are unbelievable.  And LilDice is right--the oven spring is nothing short of an athletic feat.

I'm glad I found this board, and hope to meet new friends AND find new bread-baking frontiers. =)

Once again I have to say I love this bread. Now I've made it twice--the first three loaves got eaten so fast (one went to a neighbor) and I still wanted more! But now I have two loaves in the freezer for future enjoyment.

Here's the first loaf I cut into:

And here's my second batch, first loaf:

The second batch had way more oven spring, though I did nothing differently (except realize I didn't have to flour the dough as heavily as I did on the second rise the first time). Bread is so funny that way--consistency is hard to achieve. Or it is for me, at least.

Here's one more shot of these pretty (albeit oddly shaped) loaves.

This will be a new staple bread in my house!

without an electric mixer?

I don't have one that can handle dough and since finding the stretch and fold method, I actually put the need for one on the low priority list.

Can I just stir briskly for about 3 minutes, then rest it for about 15-30 minutes then come back and stir again for about 3 minutes? Doing this for about 4 stirs and get the same type of gluten development, do you think?

Have you ever tried making this by hand? I have an awesome spatula that is my favorite over the years that is a one piece huge job that's extra sturdy and can withstand the elasticity of wet dough.

Thanks!

I can't vouch for it myself, but you could try making it in a food processor, if you have one.  I know PR says in the BBA that you can make his ciabatta formula in the food processor.  I actually am supposed to try that sometime for a friend of mine, who has a food processor but not a mixer.  When I do, I'll post my results here.

Made this as soon as I read the recipe and it was great!!.  I did not have a chance to take any pics as I ate it too fast it was gone before I could get my camera out.  This was the moast bubbly cibatta I have ever made.  The crumb was very soft and the crust was alot softer than I expected.  The only problem I had was shaping as this was a very wet dough.  I highly doubt that this dough could be made by hand as it took me almost 25 minutes in my KA to develop the gluten enough to make this a workable dough.

What flour are you using, I've found Semolina + King Arthur Bread flour takes only about 10 minutes to come together, and I've had just straight up King Arhur come together in as little as 5 minutes

Brought up with chickens  in the back yard in my youth, I was surprised at the name of this bread. In Italian, it is the sound made by a rooster!!!  I need to make this recipe.  Talk about my roots.  OMG way to old!

Well I did it! I made this bread by hand and it was very easy! Here's the link to my blog with pictures. Feel free to make comments there. I just didn't want to take over lildice's thread with it!

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/3088/bluezebras-baking-banter#comment-14086

I made this by hand today!!  I followed the instructions exactly, except I mixed with a wooden spoon for two minutes at a time and then let the dough rest for 10 minutes.  It only took me five cycles of this to get the dough to stick together enough.  I literally beat the crap out of it during those two minute segments!  I then let it rise for 2 1/2 hours in my electric oven (with the light on.)  It rose a little more than triple though!

This is an awesome tasting bread!  Will definately make it again!

Thanks, JoAnn

By the way, I made a proper pizza recipe out of this dough (half batch). I posted it in the pizza forum and here:

http://hollosyt.googlepages.com/quickrusticciabattapizza 

this recipe is TASTY but i couldn't get my crumb the same. the bread was very tight. i was hoping for the airy ciabatta....i'll try again today and let it rise for a longer period. i wonder if i handled it too much just prior to baking. hmmmm.
well, cheers all!

so how much flour is 500 grams? 500 grams is just over two cups

I have a new hand mixer with a cookie ...dough hook, think I will try that.... with the  rest sessions.....this bread should be lighter  than cookkie dough

http://www.jsward.com/cooking/conversion.shtml

  Well I did not see your post until too late, oh my.

I used what I thought was the correct amount of flour, about 2 1/2 cups, beat it with the cookie dough hooks, which really did develop the flour well, but it was not enough flour, and ran like pancake dough all over everything, what a mess, trying to hold it on the flour with my scraper. excited dogs ....

So I beat in another cup of flour, did a few folds and told it to be ready for the overn in 40 minutes,  The loaf reminded me of the  first one in NO Knead to Knead, which came out some years back and had some nice wet dough rescipes.

Well we ate it and it was great with fresh garden tomates and a little salt and olive oil

bake on !

Hi all --

I've had this recipe on my to-try list for a long time, and finally got around to it! I made it exactly as stated (the regular, not the semolina version), and the first thing I should note is that while I beat it in the KA for the full 30 minutes, it never pulled away from the sides / bottom of the bowl, and never climbed the paddle -- it stayed too wet for that. So next time I might try just a little less flour...

As a result, there was no way to "cut" the dough into three pieces after it had tripled (more like 2-and-a-halfed, until it collapsed)... So I decided to make one huge loaf instead... And huge it was -- almost the size of a half sheet pan.

The results? Very tasty and I thought the texture was pefect -- just the right spongy ciabattaness. HOWEVER, it had almost no oven spring for me, so it stayed very very flat -- the whole loaf is maybe only 2 inches high. Sigh. Oh well, guess I will just have to try again, perhaps this time with a smidge more flour... Here are a few pics...

Any suggestions are very much appreciated!

Emily (excited to be making my first post!)

Ok, it's obvious why it didn't rise. You didn't develop enough gluten for air to be trapped in the dough.

 If I had to guess why your's never came together it's probably because you didn't mix it fast enough. I start out on my KA with the PADDLE at 6 -- this is pretty fast, once it starts to crawl up the paddle I switch to the hook until it lifts up off the bottom of the bowl. It takes about 15 minutes typically. You were probably mixing waaay too slow.

Hi LilDice --

Thanks for your reply. I had never considered the idea that it would be under-kneaded, since it was going for so long... I didn't have it going super slow -- I think a 3 or 4 on my KA -- but 6 would certainly be much faster, so I will try that soon and let you know how it goes!

Thanks again,

Emily  

Has anyone tried this in another mixer, such as a DLX or a Bosch Universal? Everytime I come to this site I look at this particular thread and really want to try my hand at this but wanted to ask if anyone had used either of these mixers and what procedure they used with them to get the same result. I think this would make a grand grilled sandwich..............I can almost taste it just looking at these pictures. The weather here in the deep south so I am looking forward to being able to resume my bread baking trials.............no central air in this house so not much gets baked when the temps are well over 90 and the humidity is well over that!

I thought ciabatta meant slipper , because of its shape...

I agree with slipper for the meaning of ciabatta, as does my Italian dictionary.

 Anyway has anyone come up with a flour/ water ratio that isn't so wet?  If so did it effect the crumb?

Thank you, for this great recipe. It is such great bread and so easy. thank you again. we are eating your bread in Glasgow!

For those of us not fortunate enough to be using a scale yet , what is the teaspoon equivelent for 15 g of salt and is that Kosher or table style salt?

Hi jeffteel,

I like your bread best.
It's because there is a little crumb left inside the bread and not all bubbles and crust.

Think of some nicely roast meat with some lovely sauce - you will be happy about some crumb.

For fun I once made a wheat bread out of a very wet dough by stretching and folding many times - I had ONE big bubble with some crust around.
Interesting to look at, but not really nice to eat.

Harry

---------------------------------------
Everyone is a stranger somewhere -
so don´t give narrowmindedness or
intolerance no chance nowhere.

After twenty-five years of baking with traditional style artisan loaves, rolls, pizzas, etc., I decided that this post gave me the courage to try a really slack dough. The resultant bread was delicious, but didn't look anything like the internal crumb structure everyone else is achieving.

I tried making a ciabatta type bread (although not in shape) according to the instructions above, although I did change the formula slightly. Was the following result because of the formula changes or something else.

I used one cup of cold butter milk and one cup of room temp water, one half cup of wheat sourdough poolish, two and a half cups of bread flour, two teaspoons of Kosher salt and two and a quarter teaspoons of proofed yeast. I kneaded with a Kitchen Aid on speed five and six for thirty minutes using both the paddle and then the hook. It never really came together away from the sides of the bowl like a traditional dough does so I dumped it on the bench and  continued folding and stretching until it would hold together, which only took about six folds. The initial rise was for approximately one and a half hours which tripled the volume, the second was for one  hour which doubled the size. The dough was very slack and I needed a bench scraper to help in the folding and shaping but it did hold together enough to hold its shape. The dough was stretched and folded after each rise prior to the final shaping. I made one boule and one banneton.

The loaves were baked in a 450F oven, misted every thirty seconds for a total of four times during the first two minutes and a pan of boiling water was placed in the oven on the stone for the first five minutes. The loaves were pulled from the oven after the internal temp reached 205F which took ten minutes for the banneton and fifteen for the boule. 

The loaves rose in the oven beautifully as expected, the loaves looked beautiful when removed from the oven as expected, taste was an absolutely delicious soft buttery creamy mouth feel  as expected, the crust was softer than a regular ciabatta as expected due to the milk,  but there was not a single large hole in the crumb which was not expected. From the external appeareances both prior and post baking and the slackness of the dough, I was expecting large holes, however, upon cutting open it looked like a sandwich loaf. It was delicious but not what I was expecting.

Could the buttermilk be responsible for the change in crumb?

Hi docpat,

there is at least one thing that makes the success of your baking unlikely.

You wrote: "I kneaded with a Kitchen Aid on speed five and six for thirty minutes"
That is where you killed the gluten structure.
Much too long and to fast. 8-10 minutes with low speed would have done.
And if the dough didn't come away from the sides of the bowl, you made something wrong before.

Harry

---------------------------------------
Everyone is a stranger somewhere -
so don´t give narrowmindedness or
intolerance no chance nowhere.

Thank you for your reply harrygermany, and I totally agree with you. In fact I read and re-read the formula prior to baking when I read that the recommended speed and time were so high. I normally mix at speed two for three minutes and then speed three for three minutes which allows me the approximately 900 total revolutions suggested by Hamelman in “Bread” with wonderful results. Today’s bread, although not holey, came out absolutely delicious and was completely devoured before and during dinner tonight by some friends that come over.

Maybe I misunderstood LilDice’s formula to “Beat the Hell out of it” and “in ten to thirty minutes it will set up”. Perhaps LilDice meant to rest it for 10 to 30 minutes after the initial mix, although I read that kjknits also kneaded it “for twenty minutes on speed 6”, JIP kneaded in a Kitchen Aid “for almost twenty five” and fearlessemily had the same understanding and results that I did? In fact on September 17 post, LilDice tells fearlessemily that the reason was that she didn’t mix fast enough. LilDice? Are you out there?

dopcat,

For good ciabatta, the dough must be really wet.  If you were able to handle it on the counter after you removed it from the mixer, it wasn't wet enough.  While the dough is mixing (I use speed 4 with the paddle attachment) it should look like pancake batter for the first 10 minutes or so.  All of a sudden, the long strands of gluten will pull the dough together.  It will totally change texture on you.  It will look almost like white "silly putty."

This, coupled with a longer rise and very gentle handling, is what gives you the large holes.

This is just my experience.  I learned to make ciabatta from the Rose Levy Beranbaum Book Bible, and this is what she says to do.

Jeff 

I made this today, it turned-out great, thanks for the great recipe...I put the loaves on parchment paper, as suggested, it made the unruly dough easier to work with...I'm wondering if parchment paper gives off bad fumes, while baking...anyone know? Thanks, Beth

I simply cannot see myself wrestling another wet loaf onto a stone, only to watch it not rise because, well...I had to wrestle it.  There is absolutely nothing in parchent paper that can give off fumes.  Although, may depend on brand.  I use Reynold's.

I have GOT to make this bread...NOW! 

_________________________________________________________________ 

Vex not the dragons for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup...

Tried this today with some wonderful results. Used 150g of whole wheat flour instead of semolina for a nuttier flavor and it came out wonderfully. Good crumb, great crust - rise occurred in the oven when I didn't expect it to.

I just made a $5 loaf of bread!!!...actually, 3 loaves.  What a great recipe, fabulous flavor and texture.  Sorry to my local bakery, I won't be spending my $5 there anymore...I can do it in my own kitchen!  Woo Hoo!

Easy and forgiving dough.  They slid very nicely off a well-floured cooking sheet onto my heated baking stone.  However, as I was sliding my 2nd loaf onto the baking stone, I got a bit of a "hitch in my stride" and the shaped loaf ended up on the stone as a lump.  Never fear, it came out nicely baked and looking, for all the world,  as if I had intended to shape it that way!  Hey, after all, this is artisan baking!

Love this bread with butter. I'll try John's formula for a wetter dough tomorrow. Baked the loaves for 20 minutes - probably should have left them in the oven for a little longer.

Thanks for posting this recipe!

Nice looking loaves! Yes, it is a great and fast recipe. I like it because you can make it in a day. Sort of a "quckie" bread. I've also added my sourdough discard to the mix and have had nice results.

Wow , a fantastic bread! thanks!

____________________________

Healthy life http://flydone.com