The Fresh Loaf

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NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests CONTINUATION #1

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests CONTINUATION #1

This is a new thread for posting comments and pics for the participants test for the NYBaker's Book.  A link to the original thread is as follows:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18112/nybakersnorm039s-book-recipe-tests (backward link)

AND a "next" continuation #2 thread

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/19159/nybakersnorm039s-book-recipe-tests-continuation-2 (forward link)

under Forums GEAR>BOOKS>NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests

Hope this works for all

Ben

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Week 7  Chocolate Roll. I was able to save the cake from being burnt, but it did dry it out somewhat. I spritzed it with water a couple times but it had lost most of its elasticity and just broke when I tried to  roll it.

I think I misunderstood the directions on the melted chocolate part. I was thinking "Enrobed" and I think I should have been thinking "Drizzled". When I poured the chocolate on the cake it just sort of sat there, I was thinking it would ooze around the sides and completely cover the cake but it didn't. I grabbed a spatula and smeared it around. It was however delish and very rich.

Two Yums up for this one. I will try it again soon.

P.S. here are a couple of pics. notice the broken cake pieces and also the crappy job I did smearing the chocolate around.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I wish I had a slice right now! I have been through the cookie rotation and am now in the bread rotation and have the cake rotation yet to come. I hope this is in my group of recipes.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I posted to you on David's original thread. Let me know what you think about a thinner chocolate glaze.

I too was thinking enrobed. My thought was maybe it should have been 1 T, rather than 1 t of oil.

Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I have no idea what would have made the chocolate thinner. Maybe someone that does chocolate will clue us in.

Can you tell me what the egg white in the buttercream was for?

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

My husband just sliced a piece. It's very delicious. Very lemony, so I'm thinking I should have measured the lemon zest. I just used the zest of 1 average lemon.

A bit more oil, would have made the chocolate thinner.

I think the egg white was to give the buttercream gloss, but I'm not positive.

This recipe, IMHO, was the best so far!

Betty

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

1 the proten in the egg whites add body and act as a stablizer that prevents the buttercream from becoming curdeled and as the protens set so does the buttercream (taste a freshly made buttercream and it will be soft and creamy after a day (the drying of the egg whites) will cause the buttercream to set and you will see the bubble's  ( a crumb so to speak) and taste  a texture  The butter cream will seem lighter and taste better because of the lightness.

2 as you cream the buttercream the egg white whips up like a meringe but in the butter cream so it adds texture and light ness to the finished buttercream

3 not reaqly gloss but it adds a flat texture or the finished which like paper will give a perfict surface to add decorations to and items like sprinkles will stick and hold on too

alabubba's picture
alabubba

That all makes sense.

 

But I wonder, with all they hype about salmonella, If people will see it as safe. I have never worried about the egg thing, but I know people who wont eat eggs unless they are well done.

 

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

first most eggs today are pastureized and if your not sure you can buy frozen pastureized egg whites in the frozen food section or dairy section ask your store manager.

and with all the sugar as well as the small amount of salt ...well... lets just say that salmonella does not live here any more!!!

i have been using that buttercream formula for 30 plus years and well i look like it but have NEVER and i mean NEVER goten any food born illness from it or have any of the thousands of customers that i know of

so put your mind at ease and enjoy

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

is still fluffy and delicious..and no one has suffered any intestinal disturbances!

I do have to learn how to load upload from camera to puter and resize. I think my Patrick has finally tired of bread and cake pictures! I can upload and post to TFL by myself though!

Betty

PS..The best part about the Chocolate Roll recipe is that you will end up with enough buttercream to put away in the freezer for another roll..or a cake or...maybe whoopie pies..or ...

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I was just digging around in my fridge looking for something yummy. I re-discovered the container of butter cream that I made for the Chocolate Roll. I opened the container only to discover that it is EVAPORATING!!!

That said, I took a large spoon from the drawer and made some more evaporate. It is absolutely delicious, still.

I have printed off the butter cream recipe separately and stuck it in my favorites folder.

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Buy pasteurized eggs, and refrigerate the cake for added safety. 

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

get some biter sweet or semi sweet dark chocolat and melt it slowly in a bain marie or dry heat warmer.  when th is melted add some very hot 180 Degree F WATER

YES I SAID WATER!!!!

the choc will cease up turning it into a lumpy paste that looks like something you ate and lost

the trick is to not stop keep adding hot water (slowly in small amounts you can add more but you can never take it out) untill the choco becomes smooth again and pourable like thick whiping cream doubble cream if you are on the other side of the water.

pour this over the chocolet roll checker board cake or seven layer or layer cake what have you.

when it is covered and stops driping place the whole thing in the fridg and wait the chocolet will set up not hard but to a fudge like consistency

play with it you can add sugar if you want it sweeter or even a little sweet butter for taste.

this is not for cookies because it will not get hard again but for a cake or pastry this fudge like coating is perfect

normaly i would not post twice the same thing but because this is a new continuing thread and i posted this on the other one i felt it would be a good thing to put it here as well.  i hope the board gods will understand

Elagins's picture
Elagins

i love what you all are doing with our recipes ... it means a lot to have such a group of talented and dedicated testers. your contribution is invaluable ... and hopefully, we're helping all of you stretch a bit ...

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

hopefully, we're helping all of you stretch a bit ...

That's exactly my concern regarding the Chocolate Roll!

David

mhjoseph's picture
mhjoseph

Has anyone made the lace cookies yet? I don't have a pastry bag and was going to try to spoon the mixture rather than pipe it.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

which one did you get

mhjoseph's picture
mhjoseph

Hi Norm, I got the hot. I hope mine will turn out like your picture below.

alabubba's picture
alabubba

You definitely have me out of my rut. Although you would never guess it to look at me (me = fat guy) I am not that into sweets.

I bet I am not the only one here that gets into a rut baking. I am having a ball trying the different recipes.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

All the recipes have been new to me and some were quite a challenge but I have forged ahead. I think it's been a great expreience and has challenged me to try things I wouldn't have otherwise. I am now more open to trying things that aren't "tried and true" recipes others have made. I have really had a lot a fun doing this.

mmmyummy's picture
mmmyummy

I made them twice.  The first time I made them as written.  They were more like a toffee than a cookie but they were popular.  They were too sweet for me so I reduced the sugar and salt for the next batch and they came out crispier and more palatable.  The chocolate was bypassed because the cookies were already very sweet for my taste.  To dole them onto the baking surface, I just used two spoons, one to hold a bolus and one to scrape a "blob" onto the parchement.  They came out just fine in shape because they spread into flat crispiness no matter what shape they start out being.

Urchina's picture
Urchina

I also have the hot recipe, and I'm going to try this idea with the spoons, as I lack any pastry bags or skills (see my post on the sandwich cookies for further evidence of my lack of skills). But spoons? Yeah, I can probably handle that!

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

knit1bake1's picture
knit1bake1

You guys are killing me. Now it's florentines, one of my favorites growing up. Do we have to wait another year for this marvelous book? It looks like one "must have" after another. Thanks, Norm and Stan.

Urchina's picture
Urchina

I made these yesterday, and they are off the hook. Ridiculously yummy. I used almonds, and did pipe them hot, using a Ziploc bag with the corner cut off. I did circles, but also experimented with piping short stripes on the parchment paper, which turned into oblongs (think Pepperidge Farm Milano in shape and size).

 

I tried baking them on both parchment (Quillon) and a Silpat -- the parchment was the hands-down winner, much better at getting them to the crispy toffee stage than the Silpat. And the suggestion to use the back of a spoon to smear the chocolate on was an excellent one -- thanks for that!

 

Everyone who's had one so far raves about them. To  me, they're reminiscent of Almond Roca, one of my favorite candies. I think these cookies are worth the price of the book. So good! 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm back from vacation and playing catch-up.

I baked Aunt Lillian's Apple Cake today.

I baked this in a tube pan. I think I should have let it cool more completely before removing it. We had a slight issue with structural integrity, almost certainly due to user error.

However, this did not detract from the delciousness of the cake.

Pretty yummy stuff.

David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Beautiful David.

Exactly what mine would have looked like had I not burnt it.

I just love the big chunks of apple. What kind did you use? The big chunks not only add taste and texture, but the visual impact is stunning.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

David,

I agree your cake looks very delicious!  This has been one of my favorites - my wife has been out of town and missed it so I know I will be baking it again soon.  I told her it was so good that I could just open the storage container and smell it and be pretty satisfied :-)

A comment for alabubba: Remember you said, "it is just lunch... about my Plavnik experience.  Well, "well this apple cake is NOT just desert".  If you burned yours you should bake it again ... just one man's opinion. 

Ben

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

After tasting the cake, I decided to freeze it. I think cutting slices as needed should work fine. In my limited experience, this kind of cake freezes well.

Hmmm ... I hope the book has some guidance regarding storage of the products, which freeze well, etc.

David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Already planned. Have things to do this week, and will have to see what the next recipe will be, but my wife pointed out that jonagolds were on sale at the market.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I used Granny Smith apples. Of course, this is not the best season in the Northern Hemisphere for apples.

David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Cake was tasty and improved more with age.

Betty

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Mine looked exactly like yours. Took your advice to cool well, before unmolding.

It was very good, but I wish it used a lot more cinnamon.

It was really easy to make, but judging the doneness was a little tricky. Hard to judge with just the "tooth pick test". My tooth pick was still sticky after 75 minutes, but I knew it had to be done. It was.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

with add-in's will not do well with the toothpick test because the apples or choc chips or what have you-- will stick to the toothpick.  you could take the internal temp-- carefull because if you test to soon the cake will fall.  or you could go by looks or feal.  LIGHTLY (caps for a reason) touch the top of the cake in a place where there is no choco apples sugar ect.  and see if the cake springs back. if it leaves a imprint the cake needs a few more minutes again do not touch to soon or the cake will fall

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

It looks like a number of us have been testing this recipe.  It turned out great.  I got up and made it for breakfast and it was still warn.  Great with some coffee!

Crust

Crumb

Dwayne

 

 

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Yours and mine. I used a bundt pan also. I guess I should have waited until it was completely cool because I did have some structual integrity problems as David, but easily disguised.

Yours look picture perfect!

Betty

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Well, it is hard to believe this is week #7.  The Chocolate Roll was a "skretch" for me but it is done - Norms advice of the chocolate icing was a big help.  It was kind of messy - or may be I should restate that I was kind of messy (interpret that in either sense and you will be correct), but it was also a lot of fun.  We have sampled the first piece and it is good too.

Did not know exactly what to expect, but here is what I got

 

Now, on to sponge cake ....and may be some vanilla ice cream and strawberries ...

Ben

 

qahtan's picture
qahtan

 

I would like the recipe of the chocolate roll pictured above.  I make a chocolate roll but sorry to say do not have picture, only of roll but not coated in chocolate. thanks  qahtan

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

These are test recipes for Norm and Stan's new cookbook.

Betty

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Hi,

 

I plan on making this today and I am doing the "Mise en Place" thing (getting all the duckies all lined up - My Son translated for me). 

My Question is do you use the entire amount of Butter Cream that the Butter Cream Recipe makes or just a portion of it?

 

Just thought of another question.  Which way do we roll up the cake?  In to a log 12 inches long or 17 inches long?

 

Thanks,

Dwayne

alabubba's picture
alabubba

You will have Butter Cream left over, I keep mine in a plastic container in the fridge, It will keep for a very long time. (or not, depending on those late night cravings).

A 12 inch long roll.

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Has anyone had the same problem as I had?  I followed the directions explicitly including baking in 2 bread pans.  Unfortunately the only 8" bread pans I have are dark metal.  I peeked into the oven and saw them browning too quickly, so I reduced the temperature to 350 from 375.  I took the cakes out of the oven 8 minutes before the minimum time (40 minutes) and the end result was overly browned and dry cake.  This is the first flub I've had and I wonder if it's because of the pans.  How have you guys done with it?  I ended up slicing the cakes and freezing them to use for trifle or something.  I guess this cake would be good for the crumb bin if I had one here.

Betsy

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Dear Dwayne,

I had a few issues with that cake.  The cake ended up being about 1" high so rolling from the short end made a very large diameter.  Personally I would roll it from the long side.  As far as the chocolate buttercream, I halved the recipe and it was just about enough since I didn't want to store any.  You don't want that stuff slavered on thick because it's so rich.  Another thing I would do if I were doing it again is instead of covering it with another half sheet pan to keep in the moisture, I'd do what I was trained to do with this type of cake.  I would dust a tea towel (thin type of towel) with confectioners sugar, turn the cake onto it, remove the pachment, and roll it up with the towel.  Let the whole roll cool on a rack.  Then, gently unroll to remove towel and carefully spread with filling.  That would prevent the cake from cracking as mine had done.

Betsy

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Hi,

I made that cake Thursday morning and I'm dying to know how other people did with it.  My mother baked terrific sponge cakes and would be shocked to see mine!!

Betsy

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Better than mom's?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Betsy.

My sponge cake came out of the oven about 30 minutes ago. I had some of the same issues you did plus a few others, some of which were simply equipment-related.

I haven't sliced it yet, but the crumbs that stuck to the pans sure taste good!

Added: The crumb is dense and dry. Not bad with sliced over-ripe nectarine. Maybe I'll slice it, dry it further and call it "biscotti."

David

 

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

My sponge cake didn't turn out, it was pretty dense/chewy.

 

However it made great crumbs for more of my cinnamon or sticky rolls!

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Mr. Frost, my mother baked beautiful sponge cakes in tube pans.  Mine looked dreadful compared to hers!!!

It was overly browned and dry.  Although I don't particularly like sponge cake, my mother's was moist and light golden.  I really think it was a function of the pans I used. 

Betsy

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Dear David,

I had hosted a baking friend for lunch the day I had made it.  Fortunately lunch was better than the dessert.  I served homemade egg bagels (from testing) with assorted toppings, fresh chive light cream cheese and Nova Scotia salmon.

The dry sponge cake I topped with syrupy strawberries, Grand Marnier, and a dollop of Greek yogurt.

I was thinking of saving the sliced frozen cakes for trifle or tiramisu, but I like your idea of drying them further to create a biscotti.  The flavor wasn't bad at all--it was the texture and dryness that was not up to par.

Betsy

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Ok, so I messed up on slashing them "correctly,"  I thinned out the glaze and I didn't use corn meal on their bottoms.  I also baked them longer and even applied potato starch glaze to their almost cold bottoms.  Everything worked.  I should have shaped them longer, narrower, but they taste good and I like caraway!

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Mini,

These loaves are beartuful - the color and the shine are so nice.  When you say you messed up on the slash what do you mean - the little crack in the loaf on the lef or what?  I would have been very delited if my rye had come out even half as nice as yours.

I am in group A and have Classic Sponge Cake as my next recipe - I am hoping after all the comments there may be some guidance provided so I am not rushing to bake mine yet.  Sounds like I will at least get some good tasting "crumbs" at a minimum.  If anyone from a prior group has advice please share it.

Ben

Franko's picture
Franko

Great looking rye Mini! Love the colour and shine.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'll have corned beef & swiss with some mustard please!

Betty

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Terrific job!

Cheers
Ross

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Rolled each ball of dough big and flat using flour and cut into 8 pizza pie wedges.  Rolling from the outside edge to the point and point under on the parchment.  Then brushing lightly with oil & water to keep them moist while rising.  Turned up the oven heat a wee bit and ZAP!  Well it took a little longer... about 25 min. with fan on with lower heat to keep the pan of water boiling on the oven bottom.  Had all 16 in the oven at once.

The dough is a nice one (as far as ryes go) to work with.  Water is good to shape a loaf but to shape these, flour is better.  My son ordered a batch for Friday but wants garlic stuffed into them before rolling up.

Might also make very nice bread sticks.  Then the oven temp should be lower for baking.

Mini

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Dear Ben,

I just sent a private message so check it out.  Just a repeat of previous messages.

Betsy

caraway's picture
caraway

Wow, Mini!  Your rye turned out beautifully.  Cross slashes or no, they need to put that pic in the book.

Sue

Elagins's picture
Elagins

it's painful to read all those comments knowing that I'm the one who interpreted (or misinterpreted) Norm's formula. Before we go through the fixes, though, there are a few things to understand about sponge cake. Incidentally, I baked two this morning and had no problems with density.

First, most of what the old-time Jewish bakeries sold as sponge cake (the stuff baked in loaf pans with paper liners) was in fact yellow chiffon cake, which is far lighter than a true sponge cake because it incorporates stiffly whipped meringue at the last stage. A sponge cake is drier and denser than a chiffon because its structure depends almost entirely on building a hot sugar-and-egg foam, then folding in the flour and baking powder.

Norm and I discussed the problems this morning and have identified several likely culprits:

First, it's critical that the eggs and sugar be whipped thorougly over heat until they resemble a thick yellow meringue, and that the mixture feels very hot to the touch (the sugar and incorporated air will prevent the eggs from cooking over the heat). Failure to whip the eggs and sugar sufficiently probably accounts for most of the dense, flat cakes you've been experiencing. You really need to beat the heck out of it, until the meringue is pale yellow, very shiny, and the whip leaves a star pattern on the surface.

Second, make sure you've folded the flour and BP thoroughly, so that there are not pockets of straight meringue, which will come out of the bowl last and generally cause a collapsed center (although with no collapsing crumb). It's also critical to get the cake into the oven as quickly as possible after folding in the flour and BP.

Finally, my errors:

Norm was emphatic that true sponge cakes were never baked in loaf pans but in deep rectangular pans, and that the cake was sold by the pound, like wonder cake, rather than by the piece. Again, what we all called sponge cake is really yellow chiffon. So instead of using the 8.5x4.5 loaf pans per the recipe, use a 13x9 rectangular pan.

Baking temp should be lower, around 350, and bake time should be reduced to around 30-35 minutes (start checking at 20-25 for light browning of the top surface). The cake should never get more than light to medium brown.

That all being said, even the failed cakes taste great with fresh fruit that has been macerated in sugar and/or doused with a simple syrup to which your favorite liqueur has been added.

They also make fantastic cake crumbs.

Hope this helps.

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I can see that I didn't cook the custard long enough.

The baking time and temperature mods. seem right.

I still wonder about the time estimate for the custard in the recipe. I hand whisked - pretty much continuously - for way longer than the time estimate. I'm sure my whisking speed and vigor were way less than what I would have gotten with an electric hand mixer. I assume what I was trying was not impossible. Any thoughts on making the custard without an electric mixer?

David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

you can do it by hand but unless you have arms like popeye or a bakers arm its a workout.

you can use a stand mixer with the wire whip  but the eggs must be about 130 F so warm the eggs and the mixer bowl over simering water using the whip atachment to constantly move the eggs so they do not cook then put the warm eggs and the warm bowl and whip and beat the hell out of it about 15 minutes of longer on KA speed 6 any faster and you will break the bubbles you are tring to form

the oven should be hot at this point

when the eggs are whiped enough the folding in of the flour should take a minute  the faster you fold the better the cake will be but be gentel as well,  in order to keep as much air in the batter as possible.  once folding is done that cakes should be in the pan and in the oven as fast as posable

and don't open the door for at least the first 15 minutes so the eggs will set.  other wise the cake will look like that famous bridge in washington.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I may give the sponge cake another try, using your good suggestions.

David

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Correct egg quantity in Sponge Cake?

4 - 5 large eggs, OR 11.6 ounces(which is about 6.5 eggs).

Seems that could make a difference.

I used 5 eggs. Still came out a little dry and chewy. 9 x13 pan, 30 min @ 350. Guess I should have gone for the 11.6 oz.

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I weighed the eggs, It took 6-1/2. I found the cake to be dense and kind of tough but delicious.

Its the kind of cake that would hold up well as a base, Soaked in Grand Marnier, topped with fruit and cream.

Dang it, Now I have to go to the liquor store.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

These are from a few weeks back but I have been out of town and just now have time to post the pictures. This dough was also wonderful to work with, much like the poppy horn rolls and the flavor is great. I didn't change a thing in the recipe that I can remember. Topped half with poppy seed and half with sesame seed. I did cheat and look for a diagram on the Internet to see how to form these since I was having a heck of a time with just written instuctions. Even with a diagram I had issues so my more "mechanically" inclined husband ended up doing the forming of the rolls for me. I am left handed so maybe it's a left-brain right-brain thing?

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I'm having a lot of fun experimenting with breads I probably wouldn't have attempted if it werent for this expriment for the cookbook.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Very nice job on the twists!

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Thanks Betty!

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Belated pictures of my Chocolate Roll. It was so warm that even after I refrigerated the roll for 20 minutes, I still couldn't slice it without smearing the buttercream. You know what, who cares! It tastes awesome!

Also, some pictures of my Sponge Cake. I don't know as I've ever knowingly had sponge cake, but I guess I must have. I heeded Betsy's adviced and baked at 350° for 40 minutes, covering with foil the last 10 minutes.

I had frozen the buttercream so I thought this would be a good way to use it up. I still have enough for another cake. This one leaves alot to be desired in appearance. I'll be keeping my day job!

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

This was the latest recipe I received. I made it with some skepticism since I've never used barley flour nor the seeds the recipe called for. I live in Omaha, NE and some of the more "exotic" ingredients for these recipes are not always easy to find. At first I thought I'd have to resort to shopping on the Internet but found the barley flour at a local health food store and the Charnuska seeds at our local Penzey's spice shop. This is one of the easiest bread doughs I've worked with so far. I did have to add about 2T extra water but other than that it came together beautifully. Baking time was a little longer than the recipe called for  but we got two nice loaves. We waited an hour to slice the first one wondering what the flavor would be like since it was not like anything we had ever baked before and it was slightly warm when we took the first slices. The flavor is delicious! It's even better today after sitting for awhile. This is a real winner in our book and I would definitely bake again. Pictures are below:

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'd love to try some. I do love barley and can't imagine what it tastes like. Is this a yeasted bread?

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

The bread does call for instant yeast. Ingredients include barley flour, high gluten flour, salt, yeast, water and the charnuska seeds. It's a simple recipe and the bread is delicious. I think the seeds add a lot of flavor - they are added to the dough and sparingly sprinkled on top before baking.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I looked them up on Penzey's and am delighted to find that I already ordered them from Stan. Can't wait to try them. You say they are sprinkled sparingly, are they stong in flavour?

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

The flavor of the seeds was very subtle the first day but I noticed when I had a slice yesterday that the flavor was more pronounced. It's an interesting flavor - very good tasting actually. I think it might also work well in a rye bread. Edited to say that I think I could have sprinkled more seeds on top of the bread and it would have really added to the appearance and the flavor.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Makes me wonder how a barley poolish would do...  

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I'm a barley flour "virgin" so I don't have much of a feel for how it would work in a poolish. It would be worth a try and I can imagine that would make the flavor more intense. The texture of the flour is certainly different - more of a grainy texture like semolina I thought...

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Just finished making them and trying to arrange them on the plate.  Not so great at making them look good, but they are delicious, not too sweet and very delicate.

Betsy

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Betsy,

I think you did a great job of arranging your cookies - they look very very nice ....

How did you shape them - a cookie press?  I don't have one and these are my next assignment also - guess I may be buying one soon. 

Ben

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Piped from a pastry bag.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Cookies and china. This is my next assignment also. I have a dumb question, is shortening always Crisco? When a recipe calls for shortening, I've always used butter. This recipe calls for both.

Betty

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Hi,

I would have put them through my cookie press, but the dough was a little too soft and the cookie press dough needs a certain consistency.  I used a pastry bag with a 3/8" opening and jagged teeth.  I don't do this stuff well, but I started from the outside to create a circle and filled it it.  They taste better than they look.

b.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Betsy,

You did a great job - they are all the same size.  Mine won't be for sure no matter what tool I use UNLESS I make one BIG cookie :-) 

Ben

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Betty,

I believe when a recipe calls for shortening, they mean Crisco-like.  Butter is shortening.  The addition of shortening to these cookies makes them much more tender than plain butter.

Betsy

Franchiello's picture
Franchiello

Is vegetable oil processed to a semi-solid state (I think this is the evil trans-fat thing), butter has milk fat solids in it.  The mixture of both shortening and butter is to provide the flakiness that the semi-solid vegetable oil provides along with "mouth appeal" of butter.  I noticed that chocolate chip cookies made with only butter tasted radically different from the recipe I had used that called for only shortening and frankly, I preferred the shortening based cookies over the butter based cookies.  Those little sour cream spritz cookies look wonderful and I'll bet they taste as nice as they look!!

There are many brands of shortening out there, I've always used Crisco - probably because it's what my mother and grandmother always used - they both made the flakiest pie crusts ever.  Weird how brand loyalty works some times....

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Sorry.  I didn't read over my note.  Butter IS NOT SHORTENING.  Pies made with Crisco are flaky, but Crisco doesn't taste good.  Pies made with both taste good and have a flaky texture.   That's why the cookies are so good--they're made with both.   

Good night.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

lift with a spatula and will sit on top of the flour in the bowl.  All margarines, criscos, butters and lard in solid form.  Crisco is not artificially colored but I have seen it with butter flavor.  I think white shortening turns us off simply due to lack of color.  Winter white butter can have the same effect.  There was a time when the coloring was sold with the margarine in a capsule and one could pop this and knead the sack until the shortening was yellow like butter. There was also a time when margarine was so much cheaper than butter, that most recipes were made half and half to get the flavor but save on butter.  Turned out to work well and caught on like wild fire in the 70's.

Mini

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

TY Betsy and Franchiello. OK..I'll get some Crisco...but it makes me shudder! It has ick factor for me.

Betty

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Mini and Franchiello are spot on with their definitions, and Mini's observations about the relative appeal of butter over hydrogenated vegetable fats is right on the mark.

a couple of important points: 

first, US butter is almost 20% water, vs 0% in shortening which has a radical effect on the behavior of baked goods in which it's used. so to get the same impact of 8oz/227g of shortening, you'd need almost 10oz/285g of butter ... at the same time having to increase the flour to absorb the extra liquid or reduce the other liquid in the formula, etc, etc.

second, the role of the fat in laminated and puff pastries is to separate sheets of dough so that the steam generated in baking can leaven the product.  you'll note that there's no other leavening in the puff pastry -- nor in Danish dough, croissant dough or any other laminated dough or pie crust.  that's so the leavening action of the steam can work.

hope this helps

Stan

PS ... vegetable shortening is great stuff, in its place

SteveB's picture
SteveB

you'll note that there's no other leavening in the puff pastry -- nor in Danish dough, croissant dough or any other laminated dough or pie crust.

I believe croissant and Danish dough do, indeed, contain yeast as a leavening agent.

 

SteveB

www.breadcetera.com

 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

like puff paste, Danish and croissants are laminated, but they do indeed contain yeast.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Stan, Thanks for elaborating, it all makes sense now and I've learned something. It's a good day. I've picked up my Crisco and sour cream, ready to go...

Betty

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Looking through this recipe, I'm having trouble understanding some of the directions, and also have some doubts as to whether this one is going to be adaptable to hand-mixing. If it is not, I figure there's not much point in my re-reading it countless times to try to envisage what to do.

Anyone tried it yet and can venture an opinion on hand-mixing (or maybe Norm or Stan could bib in here)?

Cheers
Ross

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

what you are making is a puff pastry using the german blitz method

the flour and part of the butter are mixed to lub the gluten and starch particals  then the water and eggs are added to form a sticky dough not mixed more than 1 or two minutes at max one is better

then the rest of the butter or fat (so to speak) is added to the dough in golf ball size pieces (should be chilled or cold butter the same consistency of the dough) and mixed so thay are throughout the dough about 30 seconds (you should still be able to see very large hunks of butter

place the dough on a board that has a lot of dusting flour and roll out as instructed

hope that helps

Norm

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Group C

I made the pastry & elephant ears today. Lovely sunny winter's day here,  18°C in my kitchen so ideal for pastry making. I apologise upfront that I don't have a camera so have no photos to share (and is why I don't usually post about my baking adventures). 

I worked by hand, it wasn't hard, Ross (have you had a go yet?) Mixing in the bowl I gently used two large chopsticks rather than my warm hands, to bring the dough to the shaggy stage. Adding the rest of the butter I didn't really get the dough beyond the shaggy stage using my chopsticks, so put the mix on the bench and gathered it together the way I do with a scone dough, taking care not to overwork or warm it and it came together, then I pressed it out to the rectangle. At this stage the mix looked reminiscent of a rocky road mix, lots of lumps of chilled butter dispersed amongst the dough. I need to declare that using grams I made up 1/4 of the pastry formula and so had a quantity of dough that was easy for me to manage. Following the folding instructions, I kept to a rectangle ratio and focused on the dough thickness to be sure I was achieving the correct pastry, despite the quarter quantity. It was easy to follow the instructions.

On to the elephant ears, Stan won't be in the least bit surprised to hear I chose to do the miniature version! Ross, I can see why you struggled with the instructions - they need work. Having read right through I could visualize what was to be achieved, but it seems to me that the detailed instructions for the large size are inaccurate. Ross, can I suggest you get two pieces of A4 paper to experiment with. Join them together on the short side, you will get a piece of paper around about 60cm long  (but only 21 cm wide, not 45cm wide as the pastry will be). With the join perpendicular in front of you, start folding/rolling the right hand end of the paper over 5cm at a time, towards the centre. You will make four folds and have five layers by the time you reach almost to the middle. Repeat with the left hand side of the paper. Finally make one last roll, drawing the two 'rolls' together. Doing this with paper, I end out with five layers on one side (i.e. 2 and a half circles), and six layers on the other side (i.e. three full circles) - the same happened when I worked with the dough, one more layer (half circle) on one side. If you were my 4 yr old nephew you would now play with this rolled up paper, using it as though it were binoculars to look out the window to see if there are any whales in the sea! (He and I did have the pleasure of standing on my deck watching a whale making its way round the coast a fortnight ago) Can you see the spirals as you peer down the binoculars, with the bottom  of the "U" facing up?

Having got it rolled up I popped it back in the fridge for a few minutes to firm. Then I turned it upside down so that the bottom of the 'U' was facing up and I used my bread knife to slice it up. Working with the miniature version this was very easy and looking at the large paper version I just made, I imagine it would similarly easy. 

Having made the mini-version, I needed to keep an eye on them in the oven. I flipped after 15 minutes, and after a further 5 minutes removed from the oven the few on the outer edges of the tray that were already well coloured. I took the rest out after a total bake of 30 minutes. I'd made a simple syrup with lemon zest. 

Finally after an hour I got to taste them. They have crisped up nicely. They look very cute with all the pastry layers as well as the rolled layers having puffed up. They taste good too but I'm going to have to share them - too much fat, too much sugar in there for me! I was glad I used lemon because it cuts the richness a bit.

Now I'm looking forward to doing the chiffon cake.

Regards, Robyn

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Thanks a lot.

I wasn't anticpating that the pastry dough part was going to be difficult (but glad to hear from you that it wasn't!). Also, I probably wasn't very clear in my post, but I wasn't having trouble understanding that part. It was the shaping of the elephant ears that I found indecipherable. The link I posted to another recipe which included a pic clarified it, but your description is even better - fabbo!

I was intending to make a 1/3 quantity, but I think I'll follow your lead now, and make 1/4. Like you, the ultra-high fat content cools my ardour for this type of product...although I'm looking forward to the sampling. They sound yum.

And your deck...oh me, oh my. What a wonderful outlook you must have. My partner and I have been churning over the possibility of leaving my spoiled home city of Perth (goddamn the bloody mining 'boom')and moving to an artisan community in a regional centre where we're more likely to find some kindred spirits. We were looking at Tasmania, but probably can't afford it. We have been rolling around the theoretical possibility of NZ, and your post has just taken it out of the theoretical and placed it into the must-take-a-look category. Deriving a livable income is always the hurdle...

But I digress. Will stop right here.

Cheers and thanks again!

Ross

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

After a lot of procrastination, I finally bit the bullet and made these. As Robyn commented, not hard at all. It was only the unintelligble (for me) shaping instructions I was baulking at, but over time I let the whole thing assume elephantine proportions of difficulty. Silly.

I have to say, these babies are LETHAL. Horrendously high in fat content, they are so delicious you just can't stop at one! My doctor would be glad I followed Robyn's example and only baked a 1/4 quantity...although I am not so glad!

Cheers all
Ross

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Elephant ears = palmiers ... except thicker.

They look deadly (from a medical perspective). I want one!

David

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...I suppose we have to be glad of the limitations of web technology. Once they perfect matter transference, there'll be medical catastrophes aplenty, and lemme say, folk like you and HansJoachim - to name but two of many here - would have a lot to answer for in my lil' corner downunder!

Cheers!
R

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

but you can't call them that in a jewish bakery (you know why)  the jewish people would never buy them.  kind of like the chevy Nova in spain.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'm glad they are at your hacienda!! well sort of..maybe just one!

Betty

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Dear Mini,

It looks really good to me.  Call it the wild yeast of Austria.

b.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Nathan,

Love the nice rich color and the contrast in the seeding - nice rolls for sure.

Ben

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

At long last and way behind schedule I made my NY Rye recipe today. I couldn't find white rye in Omaha and had to order it. This was a great recipe and everything came together without any additions needed. We have warm humid weather right now and the bread rose quickly both times. My slashing, as always neeeds some work. One thing I will do the next time I make this is to make the glaze right when I slip the bread into the oven. My glaze was not room temperature when I applied it and I don't think it looks as good as it could have. I rate this recipe five star for ease and flavor and will be making it again

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Actually, from your photos, the rye breads look good. The 3 cuts across the loaf is typical. Maybe your cuts were a little too deep on one loaf. The crumb looks very good.

From the light-colored side of the loaf in the second photo, I presume the loaves were too close together in the oven.

But I'm just nit picking a really handsome couple of rye breads. Nice job.

David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

You are absolutely right - I didn't proof the loaves far enough apart on the parchment and they were too close together when I slid them into the oven. I didn't realize that would cause the lightness of color on the sides so I learned something new which is great. I was thinking my slashes weren't deep enough but I was pretty proud of the crumb and thought it was probably as it should be. Thanks so much for your input - I appreciate it. We are having sandwiches tomorrow and husband has already said he's having slices of this with our supper tonight =).

 

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I would love a sandwich on that rye, it looks great. Can't wait to try it.

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

As always, your encouragement is greatly appreciated. This invitation to test these recipes couldn't have come at a better time. I had gotten away from baking and am now remembering how much I love it and how much there still is to learn. I will be sorry to see the test recipes end and will have to find another challenge for myself. One big challenge coming up is the next recipe Elephant Ears - I've read the instructions several times and I'm still shaking my head =). I guess I'll just try to follow step by step and see how it turns out...

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Credit to my wife for spritzing the batter onto the cookie sheets and baking these. I was occupied with mixing dough for a corn rye.

David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I can just see that they would melt in your mouth. I can't wait to get my hands on this cookbook and try some of these fantastic recipes I am seeing. I'll be up to my eyes in Elephant Ear dough today - should be challenging =).

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

These were fun. I purchased a Wilton Cupcake decorating kit for frosting since I didn't own a pastry bag. For $7.50 you get 4 metal tips and 8 disposable bags. I could get into playing with this and frosting some cakes. As for the cookies, melt in your mouth. I couldn't decide if I liked them slightly browned on the edges??

I still have some chocolate buttercream and am going to make a couple sandwich style cookies. These would be good with some jam too.

I've got to get back to breads, these sweets are too good!

Betty

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Mini

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

David and Mini!

Betty

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

I'm posting to say how much I enjoy seeing all the baking and to be sure I get notified of any new post. I don't want to miss a thing.

bnom's picture
bnom

I made this cake at a remote cabin and didn't have lemons....I substituted orange zest and it was divine! 

I had similar problems with the chocolate glaze...I ended up drizzling it onto the cake Jackson Pollock style - a nice effect.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Has anyone tackled the elephant ears yet? I will be working on those this week-end - looking for some pictures and inspiration from the other "EE" bakers =)

Trish

alabubba's picture
alabubba

What a light and flavorful cookie these are. Made a second batch because my kids ate the first one.

CAUTION if dipped in cold milk they breakdown fast! So be prepared to move from glass to mouth quickly.

Allan

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Bet he would love these..a wink of his eye, a twitch of his nose and he could enjoy both!

Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Good flavor, but I was disappointed that they lost definition in the oven, Unlike yours.

I wonder what we did differently?

 

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Methods of shaping?

 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I used a pastry bag and star tip. They looked FAB going into the oven. Did you chill your dough before baking?

What temp was your butter/crisco when mixing.I used room temp but wonder if I should have worked this cold?

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

I didn't bake them yet, and won't have any equipment except plastic bags.

Looks like paddy's cookies above were made with a dedicated kit. Maybe that helped in maintaining definition. Maybe batter thickness is another factor?

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Yes, I did put the dough in the fridge for about 45 minutes. I think you could go as long as an hour. It was pretty warm that day and the dough was extremely soft. Even after 45 minutes it was still soft.

Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Since the first 2 batches went so fast, I may bake another batch of these this weekend. I will try chilling the dough first, Although the directions did not say to do so.

I did try these with my cookie press but the dough was just way to soft to form properly.

I make tons of Spritz cookies around the holidays. Something like 50 dozen, So Spritz cookies and I have a good relationship.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

They should be melting a tiny bit and not running flat.  Use a cold cookie sheet when working and test one cookie first.  I like to use an ungreased cookie sheet, no parchment, so the dough sticks to it and the dough tears easily from the press or sack.  If using parchment, it may help to sprinkle the cold work surface with a little water first and then lay the parchment onto it so it sticks to the counter top and doesn't pull up with the press or move about as you work.  Then transfer to a sheet pan.  

The dough has to have "just right" consistancy.  If the dough is hard to press out of the bag or press, then some egg white has to be added or the dough needs to be warmed up just a little bit.  If it presses out too easy and the dough is cold, bake one cookie first.  Chances are, more flour will have to be added.  These adjustments are often listed with spritz recipes because egg sizes vary and the problems with cups.  Those using the metric weights should have the least problems but some minor adjustments still might have to be made as flours vary. 

Only one time did I not have to make any adjustments, and that with the same recipe year after year.  So with spritz cookies, be ready to adapt.

Mini

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

US testers, where are you buying your almond paste? Trying to save from driving all over h*** searching. Not that I've looked at my local grocery, but don't recall ever seeing it.

Thanks.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

mrfrost:

Almond paste can be found in grocery stores. The most common brand around my parts is Odense. It comes in squeeze tubes. You can also make your own. A google search will locate recipes. There is also a recipe in "Secrets of a Jewish Baker," if you happen to have that book.

David

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thanks.

Yeah, I had scouted a few recipes. Doesn't seem to tough to make, but as I don't know how it should taste...well just didn't want to do that to these cookies. Sounds like it won't be hard to find.

Thanks again.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Almond paste is not easy to find in Omaha, NE and the places I have found it are incredibly expensive - $12.95 for 10 oz. so.... I have decided to make my own. I have two pounds of almonds waiting in my kitchen to be peeled tomorrow morning. First of all: is it acceptable to make almond paste without using blanched almonds and if not, is there any easy way to blanch and peel almonds? I have researched via Google and came up with nothing. I guess I'll just have to have patience and do it the old fashioned way? Edited to say I have almond flour on hand. Can that be used to make almond paste?

Thanks for any input!

Trish

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Had the same issues. Luckily my local chain(Kroger) had it for pretty cheap($4.69, 8 oz.).

Looks like blanching and peeling may not be so hard, but maybe a little time consuming.

If the skin doesn't pop right off, I think you can use a cloth to rub it off.

http://thebakingpan.com/Baking_Basics/blanchingalmonds.html

Blanching Almonds
Some recipes use blanched almonds, which are shelled almonds that have the outer brown skin removed.  Blanching almonds is quick and easy, and since buying already blanched almonds is generally more expensive, it is worthwhile to buy un-blanched almonds, and then blanch them yourself.

  Directions:
1.Use shelled almonds. In a small saucepan, with enough water that will just cover the almonds,bring water to a boil. 

2.When the water boils, turn off the heat and add the almonds to the boiled water. Let the almonds sit in the hot water for one minute to loosen the skins. (Don't let the almonds sit in the hot water any longer as they will loose their crispness and become soggy.)

3.Immediately rinse the almonds under cold water and drain.


4.While the almonds are still warm, press each almond between your thumb and forefinger and slide the skin off the almond from the wide end. Watch out! They will be slippery and will easily shoot out from your fingers onto the floor.

5.Pat dry with paper towels.
 
 

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

I posted feedback to Norm/Stan indicating that they should publish a recipe for it.  I've found pricing on almond paste very high, compared to making it yourself.  Also I used the recipe below for the sourcream spritz cookies, it worked wonderfully.

There are two methods for almond paste that I know of.  The recipe below is the quick and dirty one.  The other is much longer and requires cooking sugar, etc.

If you are making paste to keep for a long time, make sure you freeze it.

Recipes - Bread - Almond Paste

454g blanched almonds
454g confectioners' sugar
3 egg whites
1 teaspoon almond extract

Grind almonds in a blender.  Thoroughly mix in sugar, beat egg whites slightly, then stir into the almond mixture.

Add almond extract using hands to blend heavy mixture.

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thanks. Will come in handy if I can't find it, or it's too expensive.

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Cost to make about 4 cups worth of almond paste was $10 approximately.

Cost to purchase 908g package here in Canada, is $32.25.

qahtan's picture
qahtan

I can purchase almond paste, I mean real almond paste I can get it for about $11

a pound. This is the real stuff that one will reduce to put on a cake etc.. 

  Contents is sugar and almonds.

 To make your own you really have to homogenize the almonds with the sugar, and to grind the almonds in the blender or food proccessor you still tend to get bigger bits of almond, better if you can buy amond meal/flour it's very fine.  

 

qahtan

bnom's picture
bnom

I found almond paste in the refrigerated section of an import food store in Seattle (bulk cheeses, spices, pastas, etc).  It was cheap and I don't know how I've managed w/o it for so many years.

Do you have any stores in your area that cater to ethnic or chef clientele?

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Be sure if you are in Group A to look for the 3rd correction before you begin making them. I was feeling pretty smug.. I had the day off, got up early, picked cukes, squash, green beans and blueberries.  Hey, I'll get a head start on this week's recipe. Betsy and & I had a brief discussion. Stan told her to go by the weight , not volume measures. So, that is what I did. I noticed the butter was off. If I had paid attention to the %s, I would have seen the problems I was going to encounter. Ah well, in the trash it went. Tomorrow is a new day!!

Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

We always referred to them in the plural - kichlach - maybe because no one ate just one kichel. In the Jewish bakery when I was growing up, these light, crisp, eggy, sugary cookies were always pre-packaged in plastic bags of a dozen. They are so water-absorbant that they get soggy quickly if exposed to humid air.

These kichlach from the NY Baker boys are the lightest, crispest, eggiest, sugariest kichlach I've ever had. They are mostly air, so they cool quickly. I tasted one maybe 10 minutes out of the oven - melt-in-your-mouth delicious.

I took a couple dozen right over to my external auditor of Jewish baked goods, but he was still on the back nine. I expect a call later this evening raving about the kichlach of his childhood in Detroit and how these are better.

David

 

plevee's picture
plevee

Please ask the NYB to be sure to include this recipe in the book. And send me a couple of dozen; I'm just up the coast in Oregon!

  Patsy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

As anticipated, I just got off the phone with Dr. W.

His assessment: "I've never had a kichel this good." "They're not just good. They're fabulous." And on and on.

This guy's a surgical subspecialist. He's a gifted complainer. Otherwise, a man of few words. I can count on him for an objective assessment. No diplomatic word mincing. He was basically manic in his enthusiasm.

Hmmm ... I guess the kichlach are okay.

David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Here it is almost breakfast time in Omaha and what do I see but these beautiful egg Kitchel to tempt me. Having not grown up near a jewish bakery (there is only one in the whole city of Omaha!) I have never had the pleasure of tasting one of these little jewels but they look wonderful! Can't wait for the book to come out!

 

Trish

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

In the middle of making the Blitz dough for Elephant Ears recipe. Of course it's one of the hottest days of the year here and we have a skylight in our kitchen to let even more sun in. This is definitely a dough you want to keep cool. We are gett ready for the final roll out of the dough (husband is assisting on this one) but felt we needed to chill the dough again before attempting the final rolling. I will keep you all posted. Anyone else made these yet?

Trish

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I used 1/3 of the recipe and added a little more water but the folding went perfect.  I like the size.  If it was bigger, I might have problems.  Trish, did you do the whole recipe?  I'm waiting for my lab rats to show up, otherwise I have to eat them all myself (which could easily happen.)  I have 22.6°C in my kitchen or 72.7°F  and the dough rolled out well.  I also had to chill it like the instructions.    I can still see butter variations in the dough. 

Mini

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Mini - I made the full batch of dough and I can now see why most people buy frozen puff pastry rather than making their own! Having said that, it was remarkable and amazing to see how the big chunks of butter and the flour all came together after so many rollings and foldings and became a nice smooth pliable dough. Due to the heat here we chilled between a few of the rollings and foldings. I just sliced my first batch and it's amazing to see all the layers we made. I am giving it the 30 minutes to rest per the recipe but will be popping the first batch into the oven soon. Can't wait to see how they turn out! BTW, did you get a new recipe last week? I got nothing in my e-mail this past week so I am all caught up and looking for something new!

Trish

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Hi Trish 

I wrote about them further up the thread in response to Ross's requests for guidance on mixing and shaping, but as I haven't included a photo, my post is not very appealing I'm afraid.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18619/nybakersnorm039s-book-recipe-tests-continuation-1#comment-127223

I agree about using the fridge, even in winter here, I found it worth popping the dough back in the fridge after "rolling' and before slicing. I made the mini-version, they were very cute, with all the layers having puffed nicely and a lovely colour. Crisp and taste good too. They were shared with friends. Too tempting to have in my house. I only made up a quarter of the pastry formula and then only made half of that into 'ears', which completely covered one of my baking trays. The rest is in the freezer I'll use it in a savoury pie. We call this type of pastry 'rough puff pastry' here.

Robyn 

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Robyn: I looked at your link, sadly after I was all done ;). I totally agree with you that the instructions for folding need to be made more clear with more diagrams. I love the idea of doing the folding with a piece of paper before starting with the dough. I read the instructions many times before starting and it became more clear as we went along. I'm just about ready to put my first batch in the oven. Hopefully they will turn out "photogenic" and I can include a picture in a little while!

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Well I jumped over my EE shadow after seeing Ross's photos and just got done making them.  I took photos of the folding (which I had to redo because the first time i over shot the middle.  No big deal, it unrolls just as easy.  I did use Demerara Sugar which is light brown cane sugar.  I cut with a knife and was wondering if my long ears would ever recover or would they just hang low.

After 3 minutes in the oven the butter started melting and the pastries were starting to loosten up and I thought I might have spaced them too close together.  After 10 minutes they were frying themselves and floating on bubbling butter and sugar caramel. 

I saw all the sugar coatings and thought that these really don't need fresh jam on top, but maybe that has a softening effect because they are very crispy!

Half way thru the bake, friends dropped by.  Great! Testers!  Right on time!  The aromas coming from the kitchen were intoxicating.  We sat in the garden ...  butter and caramel in the air... we drank mineral water but a good sweet berry wine would go good with these, maybe a jam more sour as an interesting option.   Two dozen were gone in no time flat!  Yes, these were just "Too Good" and I am allowed to bake them again.

Mini

 

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Those look too wonderful! I can just imaging the flakey crispness in my mouth.

I love the oven shot of them bubbling themselves into caramely goodness.

Alas, I may have to find a recipe for these online (or wait until the book comes out) as I am in a different rotation. (same with the Cornbrot)

Allan

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

That oven shot! Beeyootiful!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I didn't expect them to get a mind of their own swelling and spacing themselves.  The thin stipes of dough are only connected to each other with the caramel.  While baking (boiling) they seem to just be held in place by each other.   If you notice they went in one direction on the tray and came out the other direction.  Flipping them over I rearranged them.  I think flipping is so they can soak up the loose caramel on the parchment.  I had sprinkled a little cinnamon on a few, lost track of them on the plate.

Toward the end of cutting, the dough got so soft I unrolled it partially and rolled again ending up with "spectacles."  Didn't need to but it is interesting in another shape.  (It's hard to tell that baked are bigger than the raw size.)

 

I used convection at a lower temp with shorter times.  15 minutes at 170°C and then 10min at 160°C  Use plenty of parchment so the sides curve up to contain the boiling juices.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Oh, my....

 

do I feel inadequate...

 

In my defense,  I should say that our air conditioning broke down, was repaired today around 3pm, but the house is still not cool

 

I had THE most horrible time rolling the pastry and forming the "ears" -  most of mine look like a blob of sugary puff, but I took a picture of some that are a little more presentable.

 

however, what they lacked in looks, was more than compensated by the taste!  AWESOME!

 

I had trouble eating only two, and tomorrow will take all to the lab.  The students might place a statue of me in the hallway... :-)

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...what's wrong with HEARTS? I saw quite a few shaped like yours when I was googling to get an idea of how they should look. Nice!

Well done having the strength to give 'em away to your students. We're on the last of my batch. Wicked wicked wicked - that's what they are!

BTW, I can well understand that making these in hot conditions would be difficult. It's mid-winter here, and I'm fortunate to be enjoying just about ideal baking conditions at the moment.

Cheers!
Ross

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

a winner..YUM!

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

These look wonderful! I love the shot in the oven. I also peeked while mine were baking and it was amazing to see all the butter sizzling and popping. I had good luck with mine too. Unfortunately my good camera has decided to quit so I got no pictures with it. I'll try to take a few pictures with my point and shoot camera later this evening. We actually still have a few left. They are so rich. BTW, I sent you a PM. I have received no new recipes in the past few weeks so I'm out of recipes for now.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

The Sour Cream Mini Schnecken recipe needs some more work. The measurements are still not quite right. 1c of sourcream is not 340 g. The flour weight was less than the sour cream, so I upped the flour to 340 g. It was still pretty soft, but at least it was somewhat formable. I would only make half of the cinnamon sugar filling, but use a tsp or more of cinnamon. I hate to say it, but these went in the trash too. I can see that they have the potential to be a wonderful cookie, but after 2 tries I'm going to let someone else give it a go.

Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Which version of the recipe did you make? I think I am making Rev2A, It calls for 170g of Sour Cream and 255g flour.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I made the first 2 versions, the last calling for 6oz/340g of sour cream and 255g of flour. I will message you with my other findings..

Betty

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Berry and Alabubba,

I am in Group A and have this recipe too.  I just went through Rev2a assuming the volume measures are correct and checked the ounce and gram columns based on the Master Weight Ingredient List - there are quite a few discrepencies - if you are using weights you should "DOUBLE CHECK" them or I can send you what I have.

Betty sorry you had such a bad time with this - did you get Stan's last e-mail with Rev2a?  If not and you want it just let me know.  I plan to bake this tomorrow - wish me luck.

Ben

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

That's why we are here..although it can be frustrating.

Yes, I did get the last version. The only difference was the sour cream..3/4 c vs a 1c (and again, sorry, I don't remember the weight, which I had been going by for all other ingredients).

I will send you what I sent alabubba as to changes I made.

Keep us posted..

Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Unfortunately, this was already mixed and "Firming" in the fridge, I put "" around the word firming because it didn't. What a mess, i managed to get the 2 sets of 3 folds and get it back into the fridge. What a mess.

Ben, What were the weight discrepancies, were they significant enough to make a difference.

I do believe this dough is softer than the spritz dough. (which is YUMMY)

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Dear Ben,

I was concerned about the ingredients from the beginning.  Any help you could give would be greatly appreciated.  I expected an egg or egg yolk to bind the ingredients.  It almost doesn't seem like enough flour now.

B.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

As I stated I took the volume measures as correct and then checked the weights based on Master Ingredient List.  Here is what I found:

Dough

                                       Ounces                  Greams

1/4 powdered sugar     0.75 should be 1.06      21 should be 30

1/2 tsp Table salt        0.09 should be 0.10       3 (OK)

1/2 cup Butter             4.3 should be 4.0          128 should be 114

2/3 cup shortening      4.5 should be 4.82         128 should be 137

3/4 cup Sour Cream    6.0 should be 6.08 :-)     170 should be 172

2 cups AP flour            9.0 should be 9.18         255 should be 260

 

Filling had very minor - 2 g - deviations for sugar (198 not 200) and cake crumbs (73 not 71g)

Syrup minor also - sugar (3.5 not 3.75 = 100 g not 107) and corn syrup (0.13 not 0.15 ounces = 4 g not 5 g).

I have been pretty picky about wanting to ensure that all three columns - volume, ounces and grams - are consistent.  If they are going to be given and a baker can choose which to use then they must be equivalent.  Nothing is off more than a quarter of an ounce or so - probably not a big deal.  The fact that much more experienced bakers than myself are experiencing problems worries me a bit - I just try to execute what it written.  Sounds like a wonderful cookie and I am not a fan of wasting ingredients but Berry is right - we are testers and this period is for finding possible error and getting them known and corrected.

Ben

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

just sent stan an email it looks loke this is one where he messed up the math thats all i will say the corrected formula is on the way

bnom's picture
bnom

I made schnecken this morning.  Wow.  I was afraid these little pastries would be teeth achingly sweet but they were perfect.  The texture is wonderful, managing to be flakey, crispy and chewy all in one bite.

Stan, I know you've been berating yourself for not getting the first formula properly noted but I think you did a great job with the corrected version. 


BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Your schnecken is jumping off my screen - I can almost taste them and feel how delicate they feel in my had... they are still warm in my fantasy ....

Now, for the other bakers and myself especially please give us some details as to how you handled your dough.  Mine is currently in the refrig "chilling" I hope.  I mixed as directed but the dough never really got stiff ... did you find that too?  I got it into a log and wrapped in seran wrap.  When I put it in the frig it felt like I would be "patting" this dough out - not rolling it unless I maybe froze it :-).  How long did you leave it in the frig prior to rolling the first time?  Were you able to do both rollings, with the interim fold, at one time or did the dough have to go back in the frig in between rolls? 

I am asking a lot of questions because I have not baked this type of pastry before.  Any helpful insights would be appreciated.  Again, your look great and that is what I will be shooting for too. 

Thanks,

Ben

bnom's picture
bnom

Thanks Ben.  And thanks for your questions because it is a bit of a tricky dough...much softer than I've worked with.  After the first chilling/rolling/folding routine (folding it twice w/o interim chilling) I put the dough in the fridge overnight.  (I wanted to bake them this morning to take to a lunch meeting today). The dough was firm enough to roll out to the desired dimensions this morning.

There are two things I would do differently to make these puppies come together a little more easily.  One, that's a lot of cake crumbs/cinammon sugar and I think I'd be a little assertive in pressing the crumbs into the dough with the rolling pin.  The other thing I think would have helped substantially is to chill the dough again after it's been rolled up (before slicing). There's so much fat in the dough that as soon as it warms up, it get's tricky to work with. 

Hope that helps. I hope you'll post your results.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Thanks, the added "chilling" is kind of what I figured ... I am chilling the dough on a half sheet pan and pan to work on that maybe or at least have it handy.  I have had limited experience working up puff pastry from scratch but this sour cream dough differs in that it reeally does not have any gluten to speak of - of course that is why it is flakey, tender and delicious I guess.  I will be patient and take your advice on chilling completely and often.  Wish me luck - and others too.

Ben

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Looks like bnom is right on it. Glad someone had good results!

Betty

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Betty

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Glad you had a better time of it than I did!

Betty

bnom's picture
bnom

Thanks Betty.  Good as they were, I'm glad I was able to give these all away--I hate to  think of how many calories are in these things!

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I am impressed that yours came out so well. For me this recipe was a flop. Literally.

I used more flour keeping it from sticking than I put in the recipe.

I decided to post photos of mine anyway, so as to make the rest of the schnecken bakers feel better about their results.

I gave up, kneaded the bench flour and Cinnamon sugar mess into a gloppy ball, and tore off chunks and baked them like cookies.(not pictured)

Regardless of whether rolled, or blobed, the were pretty delish.

 

Allan

 

bnom's picture
bnom

Your comment about bench flour reminds me of something else I did that may have helped.  I didn't use add any flour when rolling out the dough.  Instead I used wax paper (instead of the parchment called for in the recipe) and had no issues with sticking.

I know schnecken means snail....i wonder what German for "gloppy ball" is?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or Crumb-snails?  I think they look tasty.  I wonder if they might be rolled up in wax paper (with rose pedals) chilled and then cut thru the paper with a sharp knife.  Paper removed from the outside after it is on the baking tray helping to hold it together.   Just a guess.  Garnish the plate with rose leaves under the rolls?  (I don't know why I keep seeing roses in everything...)

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Betty  :  )

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I think the tip about rolling up in wax paper and cutting through the paper and all is BRILLIANT!!! Wish I had thought of it. After all the work to get all the folds done, chilled, re-rolled and covered with filling, rolled again, just to have them fall apart in my hand moving from cutting board to baking sheet.UGH! Using the wax paper to hold them together would have worked perfectly.

pattycakes's picture
pattycakes

Are you all testing recipes from the New York Baker? (Just guessing...) And where might one get these wonderful recipes?

Thanks,

Patricia

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Test bake of recipes from member's Norm and Stan unreleased books.

The test bake is winding down. This week will be the 11th of 12 test recipes. As the recipes are due to be published, they are confidential.

Sign up to participate in the test group was back in May.

Initial offering:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/17858/wanted-test-bakers

bnom's picture
bnom

I did think about cutting through the wax paper...but only after I'd unrolled it and already started to cut through it.  I had the same problem with the things falling apart but I was able to pinch things together in such a way that it worked.  With that much sugar and fat...who cares if it's a little misshapen (I refer to the cookie not the consumer...)

 

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Hi everyone,

Finally got it together.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Good job,....Betty

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Way to make us look incompetent. Did you have as much fun making them as the rest of us???

Just kidding, They look wonderful. :o)

Allan

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Thanks for the compliments.  I did have difficulty with the cinnamon sugar stuff falling out and had to spoon it on after it was placed on the cookie sheet.  Also, I mistakenly used my crumbs that already had sugar and cinnamon.  I did add extra cinnamon before realizing, but they didn't taste too cinnamony (is that a word?)  My son and his girlfriend loved them because they thought they looked like they were hard to make (harder than the sour cream spritz).  They certainly were.

I have to say that I waited till all the revisions were done and learned from your difficulties.  When I rolled the dough out, I used wax paper that I affixed to the counter with a little water. 

Betsy

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

I'm trying to play catch-up now that we are back from a trip.  Here are pictures of my last two bakes.

 

Chocolate Roll with sliced Almonds

Sliced

The Sour Cream Sprits Cookies sure went fast.

 

Dwayne

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

My "old" good camera pooped out on me so I took it to the repair shop today. Alas, for what it would cost to repair it, I could spend a bit more and get a new, slightly used, "good" camera. Here are my first photos with it. These Elephant Ears are deadly...wish I'd never baked them =). When I filled out the evalutation I got to the question that asked "would you bake this again?". When I was in the process of folding and rolling and folding and rolling some more I would have said a thousand times NO - but after tasting these? I suspect they will show up on my Christmas holiday cookie platter - totally delicious!

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

the threads have become as we say in the bronx mad big so it is possible for me to miss a requested question asked.  please if you need a issue responded to send me a PM so that way i will be sure to see it and answer you.

im off to bake for a baking chalenged friend

pound cakes

bow ties

crumb buns

danish and puff pastry

and a do it your self eclar kit (elcars shells choco icing and pastry cream) he will have to fill and put the icing on the top

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

I think they came out great.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Those look wonderful and I love the beautiful dessert server - I can't wait till this book comes out so all of us can try all of these recipes! I will miss this testing group when the project is done - it's been fun to get to know some of my fellow bakers better!

Trish

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

We were off on a long weekend rafting trip on the Deschutes. Had a great weekend with family and friends, but ended up with a torn hamstring. So, now I am slightly handicapped, house bound, crutches, icing and vicodin.

Your Mohn Bars look delicious. Can't wait to give them a try.

The other B

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I always seem to be viewing these photos early in the morning and am beginning to think cake might be an acceptable breakfast once in a while =). This cake looks delicious! I am tackling this recipe later this afternoon so I can take it to my co-workers to consume tomorrow. Too dangerous to have this sort of thing hanging around the house. Edited to say: this comment should have shown up under Ross's Orange Chiffon Cake. I can't figure out how to delete it and put it in it's proper place.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I am beyond exhausted and frustrated.   Cakes are just not my thing, and this one proved it....

 

I did not seem to have enough batter to fully cover the half sheet pans, when I baked the cakes, the edges were paper thin.   However, I managed to cut seven squares and ended up with quite a bit of cake (although very thin) leftover.     

 

the other problem I had is the fudgy frosting -   it has the consistency of bread dough.  What have I done wrong?????     Can I heat it in the microwave to try and spread it tomorrow?

 

I upload a photo of the baked cake, you can see how thin it got in the edges.

 

I appreciate any advice for the fudgy chocolate frosting - I don't think I can use it in its present state....

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Greetings fellow "Group C"ers

I left making the 7 layer cake until this evening as tomorrow I will have house guests to help eat it. I'd read it through to be ready and on Monday sent an email to Stan asking how much mixing the eggwhite needs for the butter cream but I have yet to hear back. The cake needs to be refrigerated overnight and I have a busy day tomorrow so I decided I'd have to go ahead. 

Got sponge cake ingredients gathered on the bench, 6 ingredients - check, oven on - check, baking pans - prepped. OK, let's go. Although I had read and knew I'd be sifting together the flour and baking powder.........hang on, no baking powder on the bench........ that's 'cause there's no baking powder in the ingredient list.  Perhaps this is why your sponge didn't full the pan Sally......

I could take an educated guess, but then I wouldn't be testing this formula. Has anyone else heard from Stan about the quantity of baking powder, please? I have sent an email and will also send them each a PM. 

Robyn (6:40pm Thursday 12 Aug NZ time)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

it has beaten eggs.  They will raise it just fine.  Don't worry.  Do not use a pan larger than the instructions.

Mini

RobynNZ's picture
RobynNZ

Just received reply from Stan regarding baking powder for the seven layer cake:

 

sorry ... missed that one ...  should've been on the recipe ... it's 1/6oz/5g ...


rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Appreciate your alerting us. Must say though, I don't think it was up to you. A group email from one of da boyz to us folks making this cake this week would have been polite, I would have thought...

Anyway, glad to have received this info before attempting the cake. Mini may well be right about it rising with the eggs anyway, but the point of these test bakes is to follow the recipes. If an ingredient is left out, sorta defeats the purpose somewhat, dunnit?

Cheers
Ross

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Oh, NO!!!!!

 

So I guess I made mine without it and that's why it behaved so strangely!

 

I guess my report was worthless then....   :-(

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

1 teaspoon or 1/6 oz or 5g?   

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Yes. lol.

(all the same)

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...I'd be very surprised if 5g of baking powder isn't a lot more than 1 teaspoon! I may be wrong - haven't actually weighed 1 teaspoon of it. 5g just seems like a lotta baking powder.

Unless Stan or Norm bother to drop by and clarify here, I'm going to go for 1 teaspoon. That should provide plenty of rise, I'd imagine.

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Check the ingredients list they sent(first week).

1/6 oz = .16 oz = 5 grams = 1 tsp

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

US volume measures are different from Australian ones.

I'm curious now...will make a point of weighing 5gm of baking powder and seeing how that looks in volume. 1 Aust teaspoon of salt is about 6gm, and salt is a lot denser than baking powder. So, you'd have to envisage 5gm of baking powder being considerably more than 1 teaspoon!

We shall see...

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Well, of course, for these recipes, a teaspoon in referring to a US teaspoon.

btw, a US tsp of salt weighs just about 6 gr, so the volume is probably about the same. 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller
Well, of course, for these recipes, a teaspoon in referring to a US teaspoon.

And of course, I understand that - which is implicit in the heading of my previous post. I would think it logical that the smaller the volume measure, the smaller the difference between US and Aust/other measures, which explains why 1 teaspoon = approx 6gm salt across the board. But my main point is whether 5gm of baking powder equates to 1 teaspoon (US, Aust or other). Past 2am here, so will have to check that tomorrow, unless some other obsessive steps in in the meantime and comes back with a finding!

Cheers Ross

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

One and a half teaspoons is closer to 4.2 to 4.5g.  I measured 3 times or more with slight variations.    One teaspoon is 0.1 oz and adding a half teaspoon brings it to 0.15 to  0.17 oz.    5g in a conversion table is 0.176 American oz. or close to 1/6 oz.

Verdict... 1.5 tsp = 0.17oz or 1/6 oz = 5g  

Mini ob sessive

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

I agree. Most flours and such powders seem to weigh out at about that(yours) weight.

I was just going by their numbers in their master list(for the weight of a tsp of b.p. here).

Elagins's picture
Elagins

believe it or not ...

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Don't know why I a contributing my two cents worth - I guess I just like measurements.   What I found online are a few credible sources:

King Arthur Flour Master Weights List:

http://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes2008/master-weight-chart.html

baking powder  1 Tbsp = 3 tsp = 1/2 ounce so 1 tsp = 1/6 ounce = 5 grams

======

WikiAnswers  How many grams does a teaspoon of baking powder weigh?

1 teaspoon (5 grams) baking powder

=======

Sweet Napa

http://www.sweetnapa.com/volume-to-weight-ingredient-conversion

Baking Powder - tbs - .5 oz; 14 g (rounded value)

=======

I believe a more correct value for baking powder is:

1 tsp = 4.6 gram  so 1 Tbsp = 13.8 grams

So I would agree that a value of 5 grams for a teaspoon of baking powder is correct and should be used. This also agrees with the master list Stan provided.

I would welcome any comments if the sites I have sited are not acceptable.As I said I am a picky person - some say precise - this attribute has not been so helpful over my life journey.

Ben

LindyD's picture
LindyD

While I don't have a puppy in this show, I got curious so I pulled out my Admetior spoon scale and measured one teaspoon of baking powder.  Three grams.

Didn't even try with my i5000 digital scale because I've found it can't measure small amounts as accurately as the spoon scale.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

You can do the actual measuring and weighing yourself and demonstrate, as Mini and Lindy have, that 1 teaspoon of baking powder is, indeed, considerably less than 5gm, yet empirical proof like this still gets swept aside...just shows how the flat earth theory managed to survive so long.

Not meaning to have a go at anyone in particular here. Just an observation about the tendency of people to defer by default to conventions and 'accepted' (ie: published by a 'reputable' source or sources) information. Truth by mass agreement can be a powerful illusion.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

I believe the real question is "why do bakers use scales to weigh ingredients rather then use a volume measuring device such as a gallon measuring container?" I believe the answer is that bakers want to be as precise as possible so they can reproduce the end products on a consistent basis. I would believe we would agree that scooping flour can be consistent using a gallon scoop if the same person scoops it every day but when different people scoop a gallon of flour - or cup or possibly even a teaspoon - the weight of the resulting scoop will vary from person to person and even each time the same person does the procedure. So, if we agree that weighing produces a more desirable result then we have to look at the next question - standards.

Standards allow us as bakers - or any other group - to share and communicate or ideas - in this case a formula - with one another. If everyone agrees that a cup of white flour weighs x.xx grams then I can weigh a cup and you can weigh a cup and hopefully get the same amount of flour. For this concept to work there has to be an accepted, and agreed upon standard - I believe this would be termed a "published and "reputable" source".

Now, if you don't want to share your formula you can set your own standard which will work for you. This is ok but I believe I will stick with the masses on this one. I believe the last statement in the above post is more applicable to politics than baking (just my opinion).

This is too constructive a thread to get side tracked on issues such as these - I hope this post will end it.

Ben

 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

But my point re empiricism vs mass agreement stands. I don't see this discussion as unconstructive, or sidetracking. Surely, the points raised are pertinent? Incorrect quantity of baking powder can adversely affect a bake (try adding just a bit more than usual to pancakes and you'll see a graphic demo that a little bit too much can make a big difference). The baking outcome is my concern here, not points scoring or having a shot at any individual.

IMO there are logic flaws in some of your comments, Ben, but to engage in further discourse on this would indeed be pedantic and sidetracking, so I won't pursue that. I believe my view is a valid one, and I've made it clear, I believe - and that's all I set out to do.

Cheers all
Ross

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

i dont know what stan is telling you BUT there is no chemical levening in 7 layer cake   no baking powder is required or needed

is not in my formula and there is no baking powder in the test formulas that you should received

 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

in the seven-layer formula -- Norm's -- that I sent out.  there was a subsequent question about baking powder in sponge cake and I gave the measurement for the Classic Sponge Cake formula that was sent out earlier during the test

 

Stan

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Jeeeeez guyz...!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

In the instructions... Under step one... last sentence reads:

"Sift together the cake flour and the baking powder and set aside."

That's where the confusion starts.  Then one looks at the ingredients and no BP is there.  OK simple solution... now we get to label our reports normally if we didn't use the BP and "With Baking Powder" if we did.  That should help with the report sorting.

I found that my baking trays are smaller than the required size by 8 cm on one side.  They are 32 x 36  and not 32 x 44.  My layers may come out thicker and higher or go flat and look like elephant skin.  We shall soon see.   

Mini

Is it time to start another thread?  This is getting harder and harder to pull up.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Mini,

I agree and have started another thread for the group entitled

NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests CONTINUATION #2

Hope this measures up to everyone's use.

Ben

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Mini

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

The cake is moist and delicious and I will make it again. I will try to do a better job on the glaze - I had the same problem as sally - the glaze just got thick so fast. Hind sight - I wish I would have added more juice to thin it out but at the end of the day it's still delicious. A little more substantial than angel food cake (which I like) but still melt in your mouth light. Another winner.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Sorry PRE DUP ....

 

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

OK ... the Mohn bar cookies are baked, cooled, powdered, delivered to two sets of neighbors who expect this testing to go on forever and now finally really being enjoyed by my wife and me.  I keep saying I have never baked anything like what I am baking for my assignment and that is the truth.  It is a bit like being in school with the teacher not showing up - no offense Stan and Norm. It is pretty interesting that way for a couple of reasons: (1) we talk (write) among ourselves as a group and (2) I believe I am learning more and thinking more about what I am trying to bake than when I was in school and the chef gave a demo prior to the students attempt.  Anyway here are photos of my Mohn Bars ....

 

 

Looking forward to the next cookie recipe ....

Ben

 

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I can't wait to try this recipe. My group didn't get this one. I agree with you that this has been one of the most amazing experiences I have ever had and I am so glad I got selected to participate. I have learned so much from my fellow bakers in this group. I will miss the daily/weekly connection with everyone.  Edited to say that my co-workers are like your neighbors - they are eagerly looking forward to me bringing my week-end "experiments" in for them to try each Monday morning - I wonder if I'll just have to keep bring in Monday treats? That wouldn't be all bad =)

Trish

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Trish,

I agree with you, and I have seen it written by many others,  that this has been both fun and entertaining as well as very educational.  The idea of baking something that other people are also baking and then hearing and seeing both the good experiences and sometimes the bad ones too has been a real motivator for me - I am sure I would still have been fairly focused just on bread baking - nothing wrong with that but it can be a bit of a rut at times.  It is like waiting for a present or surprise to see what Stan is going to send out each Wednesday - I know I look forward to it - and then to start planning how to get it done. 

I know Norm and Stan will be very busy until their book comes out but maybe they or someone else could continue choosing and sending out recipes.  I know there are other folks that did not hear about this group soon enough that may want to join also.  Just a thought ...

Ben

bnom's picture
bnom

When the testing is through, I think we should start a new thread to brainstorm ideas for similar sorts of challenges.  

Barbara

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Count me in also! I have loved every minute of this! If there is enough of this group left that would like to continue on and someone has the time to organize the group and choose recipes and/or a book to try and compare recipes from - I'd love to be included.

Trish

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I would love to participate, but my life will be changing quite a bit very soon - however, if there's a way to bake whatever you guys will be baking either in a Breville oven or on a grill, I'll be in!

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Here is my take on the Mohn Bars. I am not a fan of Poppy Seed flavor but my family tore them up. My 2 year old grandson was two-fisting them.

I did half with a glaze drizzle. Just for looks.

 

Allan

 

I just got the recipe for next week. Looks delish!

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Alabubba,

Your Mohn look great!  Sorry you are not a fan of poppy seeds - sounds like your grandson is OK with your preference.  It is hard to believe how different the two cookies look just with such a small difference - is the drizzle a powdered sugar icing?

Ben

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Ya, I just mixed some lemon juice with some powdered sugar. Keep it thick. Then put into a squeeze bottle from walmart and did the drizzle thing.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Sorry POST - and final - DUP I hope ....

Ben

 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

look great! I love poppy, so I'm looking forward to these tomorrow. I tore a hamstring rafting last weekend and have been limping around. Can't sit for long, but am comfortable standing for a bit. My husband picked up the supplies I was lacking to bake these. My girlfriend, who is Jewish, called me from back east today. She was asking about my latest recipe assignment and told me that Mohn were the basis for Hamantaschen ( I know that not spelled correctly) which are cookies baked during Purim and are in the shape of Haman's hat.

Just a little history to go along with the bake.

Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Ben and Allan, both of you make delicious looking Mohn Bars! I got the recipe too and will try to make mine Friday or Saturday. 

Hmmm ... It would probably be bad form to take them to my SFBI class.

David

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

David,

Thanks.  I am really interested to hear more about your class - both before and after - which class and when ... sounds like it must be soon.  I have really wanted to attend (1) because I think SF is one of the best cities in my opinion to visit - lots of great places to eat and so much variation, and (2) everything you hear about SFBI is top rate and very interesting.  I am sure it will be a great experience and you will learn a lot too.  Can not wait to hear more from you on this adventure.

Ben

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

In preparation to make the Nut Torte and next week's Almond Buns I decided to make my own almond paste. The only almond paste I can find in Omaha, NE is $12.95 US for 10 oz. of paste - very pricy! This is quite a process - not hard but very tedious. I wish I would have had a couple of kids around to assist =) but alas my grandchildren are still too young for this type of project. Here's the process:

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I pat you on the back..I haven't got the patience to do that!! Lucky for me almond paste is reasonable here!

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I just sat in front of the TV and did mine. Took some time but wasn't too much of a chore.

Franchiello's picture
Franchiello

Look delicious!!  I love poppyseed sweets.  I hope the guys get their recipes perfected and publish the book soon, I really want to try a lot of their recipes!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I made them with whole wheat pastry flour.

David

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

David,

Your Mohn Bars look great - I love the contrast of colors and textures of the Poppyseeds and the crumb of the cake.  The bright colors of your display tray is a nice choice too based on the black and white nature of the actual bars. 

I would say that the folks in your upcoming SFBI class would welcome seeing, and tasting, such a nice treat.  If you don't take the real thing I would not advise showing them a photo.  I hope you have a safe trip and learn a lot - I am sure you will. 

Ben

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Great looking Mohn's, David. Did you grind the poppy-seeds?

Also, Very nice photo. Love the Depth of View.

Allan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I ground the poppy seeds in a Cuisinart food processor. I think I didn't grind them as fine as I should have, actually. I imagine in the old days the poppy seed topping was made in a mortar and pestle. 

David

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

David, your bars look delicious.

How much topping does this make? Running low on poppy seeds. Will halving the topping recipe be enough? Notice it said something about saving any extra.

Might just make half anyway, top as much as possible, and find something else to use as topping for the rest.

Thanks.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I used all the toppings (mohn and streusel). In fact, I had some concern whether the poppy seed topping was sufficient. It was, but barely.

David

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Thanks.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'm a little confused as to how the poppyseeds should be. The recipe says processed to resemble corn meal. njbetsy and alabubba said theirs was toward the pasty side. Mine was "seedier". With mortar and pestle, do you think it should be more pasty?

I like the WW pastry flour appearance, looks more wholesome.

Betty

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Betty, I think one can grind the seeds too far into "fine"and end up pasty.  When at the supermarket, I can grind or run the seeds thru a Mohn grinder, basically a coffee grinder used for just poppy seeds set up in the bagging area after the check-out line.  (Yes, we bag our own here.)  The idea is just to crack the outer seed shell so it absorbs moisture and becomes less crunchy and gritty.  To the naked eye there is hardly a change, but if you zoom up, they look cracked and fall apart when cooked or combined with other ingredients. 

If the seeds are purchased grated, they may look a little more masticated from a mill like here in this picture:      They do not "roll" and feel a little oily.

 

 I hope this is helpful...

Mini

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Mini.

You may not believe it, but not a single supermarket in Fresno seems to have a Mohn grinder. I should check some of the ethnic markets, I suppose.

David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I haven't heard of one in a Stateside supermarket.  But you did use your processor which works just fine.  I have also used a small coffee grinder.  Get some extra mocha flavor that way.

What you do have there is supermarket bagers and it first tends to startle me when someone grabs all my purchases.  Very uncomfortable feeling.  Like when you can't find your wallet at check out. 

Everyone is doing such a nice job with the Mohn bars that I want to eat one of each off every plate.  I can't decide between drizzle or crumbs so if forced to choose, I'll take both!

It's wet, windy and cool here today so the 7 layer cake is on the agenda.  I used only 2/3 the flour as AP (no cake flour)  and the rest as potato starch.   It's my lucky day!  I've made it round cutting the cake lengthwise into 8.5 cm wide strips and rolling it up like a snail shell.  Makes for a nice form with a flat top almost the size of a spring form.  It's wrapped up in parchment with a tape belt chilling in the fridge until the butter sets up.

Mini

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Huh,live and learn. I never would have imagined they had dedicated grinders. I think my poppyseeds weren't processed as they should have been. They still feel gritty to me. I find it hard to know what I was looking for when I've never prepared or seen this type of cookie.

Thanks Mini!

Betty

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

We are making the almond paste today. It's been quite a process and I have no doubt that the professionally processed almond paste is much smoother but there's some satisfaction in having done it from scratch at least once. Photos of the last part of the process attached

 

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Very nice!

 

I used commercially available, I don't think I could make my own, it's quite a bit of work!

 

Congratulations!

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I've never seen it here (although I've never looked - it might be around somewhere).

I'm really battling to make time for these more elaborate recipes...and making the almond paste looks laborious and time-consuming going by Trish's post.

Recipe looks something similar to marzipan? Wonder if you could use marzipan instead...?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:) It is almond paste but may have more sugar according to definition.  Marzipan is more for modeling and fine decoration and can be rolled out easier and Almond paste is used like an ingredient. 

I would compare the sugar and choose the one you prefer.  (It's your tongue, teeth and blood sugar.)  Because the recipe asked for Almond paste, how about picking a low sugar variety? :)

I was in the store and saw from 28% Almonds (and lots of sugar) in the Marzipan to 54% Almonds.   Interspar-Austria.

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Almond Paste

* 1 1/2 cups (8 oz.) whole blanched almonds*
* 1 1/2 cups (5oz.) sifted powdered sugar
* 1 egg white
* 1 tsp. almond extract
* 1/8 tsp. salt

 Grind whole blanched almonds, a portion at a time, in electric blender or food chopper with fine blade (Yield: about 1 3/4 cups ground almonds). Combine with powdered sugar, egg white, almond extract and salt; work to a stiff paste. Store in refrigerator tightly wrapped in saran or disposable plastic bag.

Makes 1 1/3 cups (13 oz.) almond paste.

From the California almond board.

 

_________________________________

To blanch almonds yourself is easy. Bring a large pot of water to a boil. Put the almond into the boiling water and let them boil for 2 or 3 minutes. Then strain the boiling water off the almond and dump them into a bowl of cold water. In a couple of minutes, you'll be able to slide the skins right off the almonds. Let the blanched almonds dry a little before you make almond paste with them.

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with Allen's recipe.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Here are a few photos of my completed Nut Torte. This is by far the most complex recipe I've completed during this test period. I think I over-baked and probably got carried away with the cnfectioner's sugar but the flavor is interestng. Probably not something I'd do again (unlike Elephant Ears - which I total intend to make again someday =)). I will take the rest of it to the office this morning and see how it plays... (sorry for the quality of the photos but it was later in the evening by the time we tried it and no daylight was available).

alabubba's picture
alabubba

It looks Gooey and delish. What kind of nuts in the Nut Torte?

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Almonds and more almonds. Almond paste, ground roasted almonds and almond extract...It went over quite well at work today - mostly all gone...

Trish