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NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests

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dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

NYBakers/Norm's Book - Recipe Tests

Those of us who have volunteered to test recipes for Norm's book have received our first recipes. We have been asked to not share the recipes, naturally, but Stan has told me it's okay to post photos. It's a bit of a tease, I know, but, from another perspective, it's publicity for a much-anticipated project of two esteemed TFL members.


For those other recipe testers willing to share their own results, I propose using this topic to collect photos of your breads/pastries/cookies in one place.


My first recipe was for "Bakery Pan Challah." It is sinfully delicious fresh baked and as toast this morning, with butter and cherry-plum jam. I'm betting it will make fabulous French toast tomorrow morning, as well. 


Here are some photos:



Loaf



Slices



Crumb


David

Royall Clark's picture
Royall Clark

Makes feel better baking hamburger and hot dog bun on a beautiful Saturday morning in paradise!! There is always the next loaf, boule, batard, or baguette to go onto!


Aloha,


Royall


PS. Good photos!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

'Bakery Pan Challah!


Sylvia

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

ehanner's picture
ehanner

I'll follow suit with my test of the Honey WW Challah. It was "outrageous good" according to my teenage daughter.





dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Beautiful challah, Eric.


My wife, who doesn't care for challah generally, pronounced this one's flavor as "magnificent."


We're going to run out of superlatives before Norm runs out of recipes, I fear.


David

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

Stan & Norm won't have to bake or hire photographers for their book...

bnom's picture
bnom

How many braids is this?  I did the 6 braid challah (photo below).

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

This was my first Challah (see the last post). I did pinch both ends, but they didn't hold. Do you tuck the ends under to get that more finished look?


Betty

audra36274's picture
audra36274

I almost would not have cared if it was good or not, I'd want one just to look at! Beautiful job!

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Another Gorgeous Challah...and the photos speak for themselves! 


Sylvia

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Here is my loaf pan challah.  I omitted the poppyseeds.


 



 


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Thanks Sylvia and David


Eric

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

...

ryeaskrye's picture
ryeaskrye

Only a bread baker by choice, but here's my effort at the sweet yeast Fruit Filled Buns (Apricot)...



 



 


dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Nice job, ryeaskrye! The buns looks delicious.


I can see we have more treats in store. (As expected.)


David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I see the struggle with my weight coming on! Mmmm!


Betty

davidg618's picture
davidg618

of the panning instructions.



David G

mhjoseph's picture
mhjoseph

Here's my half eaten Hungarian Walnut Roll, it was really excellent.


 



 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I am in serious trouble! Looks awesome.


Betty

Mary Clare's picture
Mary Clare

These Hungarian Walnut Rolls are scrumptious!!!  I did use butter instead of shortening.


berryblondeboys's picture
berryblondeboys

In Croatia, they call these Orehnjaca ( pronounced: OrechnyAcha). it's super traditional in middle Europe.


 


These pictures look fantastic!

Trialer70's picture
Trialer70

Would you share the recipe for the dough on your Hungarian walnut rolls?  I want to make some of them for Christmas and have lost my mother's old recipe years and years ago (she passed away in 2001).  I can remember how to make the walnut filling and the poppyseed filling but cannot recall the proportions for the dough itself.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The recipes in this topic were being tested for a new book which we are told will be released next Spring.


The recipe testers have pledged to not make the recipes public.


When the book is available, you can be sure it will be conspicuously announced on TFL.


David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

David is correct. these were test recipes for an upcoming book. We testers are sworn to secrecy. Official handshake and everything.


However, you could always send Norm and Stan a PM and see if they might be willing to help.

bnom's picture
bnom

My 6 braid sourdough challah


ehanner's picture
ehanner

This is killing me. It's obvious that the recipes being tested for the NY Jewish Bakers book are going to be terrific. Each one of the posted test bakes are beautiful. I can hardly wait for the next batch.


Eric

clazar123's picture
clazar123

This looks like a must have set of recipes. I've only tried his Onion Rolls but these pics are mouth-watering! I can't wait!

Franchiello's picture
Franchiello

For the new book once it's published.... everything looks fabulous!!  I like the idea of the challah loaf in the pan, bet that would make the best french toast ever.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Good call, Franchiello! I had some of the challah as French toast this morning. It was, indeed, "the best french toast ever."


BTW, my family always made French toast with challah. We ate it with powdered sugar and sour cream, never with syrup. I suspected this choice was derived from how we ate cheese blintzes - with jam and sour cream.


David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Here was my attempt. Cant wait for the next one.


SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Sylvia

BLHNYC's picture
BLHNYC

Hi-


This challah is beautiful! Can you please give me instructions for braiding like this? How many strands is it? I appreciate it!


Beth

plevee's picture
plevee

If it will make my breads look like these pictures, sign me up for an advance copy!!

cherylmathew's picture
cherylmathew

I made mine yesterday. It was very tasty. I was a bit confused witht he panning instructions, I will write to Stanley about it. This was my first try on Challah bread maybe that's why.

Urchina's picture
Urchina

I'm not usually a pastry eater or baker, but enjoyed the Hungarian Walnut Roll. So did our next-door neighbors, who said they had to eat multiple pieces each just to make sure that it really was as delicious as it seemed. It was. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

This is my virgin experience with these: 


I'm not sure if these look right


Mini

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Looks like you used a prune filling. I hope the recipe permits a poppy seed filling option, which I prefer. (Don't tell!)


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Thanks, I have never seen them before.  Thank goodness half of them are not in the picture.  Even raised my pune filling critic the eye brow!  Passed the Austrian MIL test too!  Better than Powidel!  Just too tasty! 


Mini

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...I'll take the low road! haha - oh well, at least they tasted good! And I'd better keep on joggin' right down that low road until I work off that butter!



PS: I was going to excuse my clumsy effort on the grounds that I had never made or heard of hamentashen until now...but since this is your first batch too, I'd better just blush and say nothin'!


PPS: FABULOUS looking bakes, folks!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven


:)

Elagins's picture
Elagins

we've got lots of different fillings recipes coming .... poppy, apricot, cherry, pineapple, cheese .... and more ....


you guys are great!!!


Stan

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Here is the photo of my hamantashen - definitely not as good looking as yours, but my my neighbor (a Jewish New Yorker) tasted one of them and said they were THE best she's ever had (I don't believe her, but understand she wanted to compliment my efforts!)


 


anyway, here is the photo, they are truly delicious, and I was also a hamantashen virgin  until this weekend!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

FYI, Hamentashen are traditionally made with either a yeasted sweet dough or a cookie dough. You made the cookie type, which seems to be more common these days. I have to say, yours (and all the others) look better than what appears in most bakeries, at least on this Coast.


David

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Looks like blueberry to me, but I'm not sure.

siuflower's picture
siuflower

Urchina's picture
Urchina

We've been munching on this for a couple of days now (I baked on Friday) and I've gotta say, it's getting better with age! (I'm a little surprised). I'm keeping it in a plastic bag on the counter (ambient temp ~ 65 - 70 degrees) and todays' was the best yet. The filling's flavor is mellowing and the lemon is coming through more prominently; the crumb is moister than on the first day (moisture transfer from the filling?) and the crust is holding steady. Just something for Stan that I didn't put in the eval form!

mhjoseph's picture
mhjoseph

I noticed too that it is tasting better with age. Also, since I posted I've had the chance to test it on some some neighbors and everyone loved it.

txfarmer's picture
txfarmer

Everything looks delicious! You guys are doing a great job teting the recipes, I will buy the book for sure! I wish I could join you guys, but I am set to be out of town for most of August...

Doc Tracy's picture
Doc Tracy

I'm so jealous of ya'll making those gorgeous breads! I got coconut macaroons, which my family won't like as they don't like coconut or macaroons. I'm still going to bake them of course. Man, this week has flown by and I haven't even tried my brand new oven yet!


Moving into the rebuilt house. Have about 1/3 of the 558 boxes left to unpack!

dosidough's picture
dosidough

I can't wait for the book! I love Norm's onion roll recipe, as many here do, and I've missed him around here at TFL. All of your bakes really look wonderful. When the book does become available I'll hopefully be done with the repair/remodeling nightmares so I can get into the kitchen with exuberance.


Congrats all, and Bake on!....


Dosi

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Hello all,


Just baked Week #2 Bread - Potato Bread.  Don't know if it is ok or not - never baked it before.  I went by Stan's remark - bake until "dark crust AND most importantly my wife and I both like it.  Any comment would be appreciated.



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


Photo from last week - Sourdough Challah



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 



 


 


 


 


 


 


 


 


This is really a lot of fun ... can't wait to see others photos ...


Ben


 


 


 


 


 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'm baking the Polish Potato bread tomorrow. Will check back with my experience. Your SD Challah looks much nicer than mine. I love the way yours is shaped.


Betty

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

One more Sourdough Challah. My version took a slight deviation. After retarding the dough overnight I thought I had a dud, no rise what-so-ever. I left it in the fridge where it got pushed to the back for 4 days. After work last night, I decided I really should dump it and low and behold it had doubled! So today I baked it off thinking it was never going to rise and taste horrid. It was just fine..excellent rise, good taste. Sometimes it's really hard to screw up a good thing!


My braiding needs some work. I have another sponge ready to go and will see if I can get this baked in a more timely manner.


Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I salute your perseverance ... and the bread's, as well. I gather it insisted on being baked for Shabbat.


David


 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

This dough, created by Norm, knew it's future. This was one of a kind. The small wonders/coincidences make me realize that miracles happen every day.


My new sponge has totally different energy. It will behave as the formula dictated.


Betty


 

ehanner's picture
ehanner

Now THESE are good!



Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

When is smell-o-vision coming? I just know the aroma is a killer!


Can't wait for my our turn to bake these..sigh


Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

In contrast to Betty, I'm relieved I can't smell those onion pockets. I'd totally loose control. They look soooooo good!


David

EarleG's picture
EarleG

Hi Eric,


 


I also had the onion rolls for this week.  Mine looked just like your pictures and the taste was phenomenal.  I have eaten these onion pockets (onion rolls) for at least 50 years and these were superb.  Just a schmear of cream cheese.


Earle

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

This was my first recipe to test for Norm & Stan and it was a great way to start this project.  Everything turned out great and it was a lot of fun.  I did cheat a bit.  The braiding instructions confused me, doesn't take much, so my Wife did the braiding ad I tagged my son to do the photography.


 


Top



Bottom (just for fun)



Crumb



 


I'm looking forward to testing some great recipies.


Dwayne

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Dwayne,


Your challah is beautiful - very nice egg wash got you great color.  I agree with the "team" effort component - tell your wife the braiding is terrific and your son the photos look professional - and the team captain did a fine job tool. 


I am finding seeing, and sharing, with others really to be the best part of this effort.


Ben

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Your challah looks wonderful, Dwayne.


The way I see it, the good baker is resourceful, and you are to commended for drawing on the resources available for braiding and photography.


David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I've never seen potatonik .... I won't go on with the rest of the poem.


Anyway, I have no idea whether the one I made is a good example or not. 



In the pan



Crumb (?)


David

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

David,


Let me begin by saying nice photos - I have never heard of potatoniks either.  The criteria I always apply first is "does it taste good?" - all else is just opinion.


Ben

dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Mine looks very similar. The smell was amazing however I didn't care for the flavour.


 


To be fair it was stated to eat with apple sauce and sour cream, we did not.

ehanner's picture
ehanner

That's a first for me too. It looks like a grown up version of potato pancakes.


Eric

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I always thought of Swiss rösti as grown up potato latkes. Potatonik seems to be some mutant version.


It smelled wonderful baking, but I didn't care for the texture. Since I have never had this dish before, I have no way of knowing if mine was characteristic or a user error.


I hope Stan & Norm assigned Potatonik to at least one person familiar with it. I'd be interested in his or her assessment.


David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

your grandparents would be proud!

Stan :)

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I never even heard of Potatonik until I saw the recipe in Greenstein. I liked the funny story he told about it, but never made the recipe. So, mine is the first and, so far, the only Potatonik I've ever seen.


I never knew my paternal grandmother. She passed away before I was born. My maternal grandmother probably made potato kugel. I have no memory of it. Her specialty was a savory lockshin kugel with ground beef and lots of schmaltz. But no Potatonik.


David


 

davidg618's picture
davidg618

David,


Never heard of it (read Greenstein, after the fact)


baked it (substituted redskin potatoes; our favorite)


liked the flavor


didn't like the texture


looked nearly identical to yours


no photo 'cause we took it to a dinner party: it went fast


going to do it once more with recipe directed potatoes


David G

bnom's picture
bnom

If nothing else the recipe offers a wonderful new nickname for the couch potatoes in our lives....


The good news on the spud front is the Polish Potato Bread recipe.  It could be the ultimate PB&J sandwich bread.  Yum.


 


 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Another 'blind' bake! I've never heard of Honeymoon cookies, and this time I couldn't even identify anything like them via googling. So, dunno how to grade these - although I suspect they're not the best-lookin' batch in the known universe! Eating quality? Again, not sure what they're supposed to taste like, but I found these quite intriguing - the honey coating plays off quite well against the only slightly sweet, soft biscuit beneath, while the poppy seeds add another element to the texture and flavour profile.



 


I'm finding this test-baking exercise interesting. Jewish baking is a cuisine area I know almost nothing about, let alone New York Jewish bakery specialties. Until now, my knowledge of Jewish bakery items has been restricted to bagels, matzah and challah - and I haven't actually sampled challah of any variety, let alone baked it, although that's gonna change after the inspirational pics posted in this thread.


So, this project is an education as well as a stimulating challenge to make sense of a recipe without any graphical assistance. Enjoying it, and the baking routine that comes with the testing commitment.


Cheers all
Ross

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I do wonder where the name comes from...  They get better as the days go by...



Ross, my imagination got the best of me...


SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Funny.... :-)


 


Well, I have to make those before Monday - not sure what to expect.   I also did not find anything in the net to guide me, so the two posts here were very helpful


 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Sally, I'm not sure how mine are supposed to look.  So use your own judgement and interpretation.  That's what the testing is all about.  Maybe we shouldn't post our pics if it influences the outcome.


Mini

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Oh, no... I think it's wonderful to see the pictures of folks baking before -  I guess the look of these cookies might change a lot depending on how much poppyseeds you use to coat them with.


 


I mighe experiment with different amounts....


 


will report back, I hope I can bake them on Saturday

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Well, well, well.....  we did not fall in love with this honeymoon


 


I tried to use a lighter coating of poppyseeds on mine.  



 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Today, after 4 days, I can no longer taste the honey, just "moon."  I also like the whole look as compared to milled seeds.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

hi Mini,

the name comes from the honey - obvious - and the poppyseed, which is called mohn in German and 'moon' or 'mun' in Yiddish. the combination just happens to make a nice fit!

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder




Crisp crust. Very chewy crumb. Delicious flavor. (Tasted 40 minutes after baking, without any spread or other accompaniment.)


David

LindyD's picture
LindyD

And tasty looking crumb.


"Twisted Bagels" struck me as being a good name for a rock group.


TGIF.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder


"Twisted Bagels" struck me as being a good name for a rock group.



My first thought as well!


David

EarleG's picture
EarleG

Very nice bagels! I had Montreal bagels this week and they did not come out as pretty as yours.  I found they stuck to the parchment paper after proofing so as to spoil the nice shape they had.


The great thing about the experience was these were the closest to the texture of bagels I got as a kid.  Every Sunday afternoon, we would walk to the original location of Eagerman's Bagels in Dorchester, MA and get that night's dinner right out of the oven.  Too hot to even hold in your hand.


Earle

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Earle.


Too bad about the bagels sticking. Some recipes call for either oiling the parchment or sprinkling with cornmeal. The Kraków Bagel recipe didn't. I had some concern they might stick, but no problem.


I lived in Newton Center in the mid-70's, and we got bagels at Rosenfeld's. Those were the best I've ever had, as you say, "right out of the oven." However, they staled faster than any bread I've ever had. By the next morning ... ever chewed on a tractor tire?


David

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Gosh those twisted bagels look super-delicious.  Kind regards, Daisy_A

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

They are pretty darned good.


David

alabubba's picture
alabubba


Egg bagels were my assignment for week 3.


As were not supposed to discuss the recipe I will let my camera speak for me.

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Thank you Sir, I was just wondering how they would look, Twisted!?

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Looking great!   I wonder if group C will get to test these....  I would not mind at all... :-)

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I too, had these as assignment 3. One of these days I will catch up and post pics of these and the Polish Potato bread..


Nice job!


Betty

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Crashed and  burned on the sour cream coffee cake -- ended up with a very, very dry cake that seemed antithetical to the "sour cream" title. 


The happy side is that this cake will provide me with the 1 cup of dried cake crumbs needed to test the next recipe -- Babka! 


 


And I'm going to re-cake the scck to see if I just plain old overbaked it. 


The guys must be shaking their heads at letting a novice get her hands on their recipes....

davidg618's picture
davidg618

Other than David's photo above, I've never seen a Krakow Bagel before. Here's my effort. Chewy crumb, delightful flavor unadorned. My favorite topping is Churnuska, Poppy, and Sesame seeds with Kosher salt.



 


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I can't wait!!!   I'm working on Linz Cookies (I'm 5 km from downtown Linz!) and now I'm getting nervous...    The cold dough tastes great!  ... sign of a good cookie!


Mini

davidg618's picture
davidg618

These are, as Stan claims, very flavorful. I'm going to make them again, soon, but with conventional shaping. I don't think there will be any difference in flavor.


Linz cookies! Are they the same as Linzer cookies? the two-layer cookie with a cutout (star, circle, crescent, etc.) and filled with fruit gel? I haven't had one of them in decades; when I was a child they were a favorite. We bought them at a local bakery.


David G

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...when did u get your linz cookies recipe, Mini? I'm in your group, I think, and haven't received anything since the Honeymoon Cookies (2 weeks ago now).


Cheers
Ross

Elagins's picture
Elagins

hi Ross,

i never got a feedback form from you for either the hamantashen or the honeymoon cookies. part of the deal was that after week 2, future test recipes would be contingent on providing feedback.

Stan
www.nybakers.com

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Hi Stan


I don't know why you didn't receive my feedback. I imagine I would have been one of the first ones through for the hamentashen - I baked them on the Saturday and forwarded your feedback evaluation form on the Sunday (Saturday US time)!


The honeymoon cookies feedback I forwarded a couple of days ago, which was later than intended, but still within the deadline, I believe (it's the Monday 2 weeks after the recipe is sent, isn't it?).


Also, knowing I was going to be pressed for time, I emailed you on 3 June to clarify the deadline for the honeymoon cookies and didn't receive a reply from you. I have records of all these emails, which I can forward to you as proof that I sent them on the dates I've specified.


Here's the email address I've been using:nybtest [at] sbcglobal [dot] net


If that address is correct, the fault lies with our email connection (either your server, or mine), not me.


Up to you as to whether you delete me from the list, but as stated above, I was enjoying the testing and have complied with the deadlines to the best of my understanding. It might be politic to actually check with people that they really haven't been complying with your requirements before deleting them on the assumption that they haven't been - especially those who have been contributing to this thread.That is surely some indication of ongoing enthusiasm and commitment to the testing tasks that suggests something else might be awry other than simply not bothering to send in assessments?


Cheers
Ross

Elagins's picture
Elagins

hi Ross,

first, thanks for your detailed post. i'm gonna answer most of your points offline, since i think it's better to handle such things in private, but i would like to make a couple of points by way of explanation:

first, with upwards of 150 active testers and 9 recipes a week to put out and keep track of -- in addition to doing all the other stuff Norm and i usually do, like making a living, etc. -- individual follow-ups when testers don't send in their feedback becomes challenging.

our assumption is that some people will simply drop out -- as has in fact been the case -- and that the technology that has brought us all together is *usually* dependable enough that most emails will get through without problem.

if, in fact, excluding you was our fault, we apologize: your participation, like that of all our testers, matters very much to us both as a contribution to the quality of the book that ultimately will get published, and also, and more importantly in many ways, as a show of support from this community, which we value enormously.

as it is, i checked back multiple times and your feedback for Week 1 did not arrive by last week's cutoff. consequently, we dropped you from our list, as we did about 2 dozen others who signed up and failed to respond. i'm sorry we cut you out in error; i'm glad you brought it to our attention; i would have preferred that you contacted us directly.

as i said, we'll be in touch offline about getting you the linzer recipe and other issues you raised.

thanks again for your continuing desire to be part of this project.

Stan

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Yes, I agree it would have been better for this whole matter to have been handled with PMs. That was my intention. I did email you to ask about the next recipe when it didn't arrive, but received no reply. That's why I had to resort to raising the issue of the apparent non-arrival of the recipe in my inbox on this public board - direct communication with you hadn't yielded any response, and it seemed that it wasn't going to!


I can only think that my multiple emails to you (and on checking, the email address I used was correct), including both evaluation forms, were perhaps wrongly recognised as spam at your end - or something like that. I have now forwarded each of the mails concerned to you so you can see the date and time they were sent.


Anyway, all's well that ends well, which seems to be the way things are heading now. Nothin' like a happy ending!


Cheers
Ross

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Here you are...


davidg618's picture
davidg618

I'd thought you'd eaten all the cold dough; never got to bake the cookies. I'll take a dozen!


David G

Elagins's picture
Elagins

those are them! so how did they taste? how was the mouth feel?

Stan
www.nybakers.com

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I brought some over to my MIL who normally kicks these out by the dozens before the Holidays.  Rumor has it we might be switching the traditional formula this year.  They really are good!  Like a cross between a Linzer Torte and Linzer Augen! 


Mouth feel, wait, I have to eat another one to check on that... moist but not quite falling apart, nutty, delicate, sweet from jam and tart too as a follow up as it melts on my tongue and then there is a little bit of caramel taste that makes me lick my chops and follow my tongue around my teeth releasing a smacking sound and searching for every crumb.  Even the slightly darker cookies are keepers.  The ones with 3 holes are traditional Linzer Augen (Eyes.)  The crumbs remain a secret but very much like a jelly roll or pound cake.


Here's another shot:


rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

That's a bread-and-butter plate they're on - they're not gigantic wheels of cals, as they appear. Nowhere near the finesse of Mini's, of course, but a very nice treat with a cup of tea or coffee.


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

They are so yummy! 

Skibum's picture
Skibum

Thanks Mini for providing this link. Now that I have the book and have this link it is wonderful to see all of the interesting and beautiful baked good being produced! So, no skiing today, BUT I have a coffee cake dough in the fridge to make those walnut Hungarian rolls in the morning, the second build for the classic Jewish NY Deli rye starting to get happy and a sponge started for a half recipe of the Bakery Challah. I have omitted the yeast and used about 10% sweet levain and 10% yeast water levain. The sponge included the levains, sugar, 130 g 90F water, 150 g strong bread flour and 65g egg yolks. It looks pretty bubbly and happy after an hour!

I will be interested in trying a different braiding style with this bread This dough is much like my beloved pulla, with WAY more egg and yolk and no cardamon -- sigh!

Busy day! 

Happy baking folks! Brian

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Gorgeous!


 


one question for you... how did you proceed for the cake crumbs?  Did you bake a cake and dried it, used a store bought cake?  Frozen cake?  Which flavor?


 


I am a bit unsure of what to do,   it seems like an awful lot of cake crumbs....

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and added neutral low salt white bread crumbs to it.  My MIL sugested Brioche crumbs when I asked if they had some at the bakery.  What ever tastes good will also taste good in the cookies.   Don't worry about it too much.  The Konditor (Caker) uses all the little scraps from the cake edges for crumbs.  So just about any cake or two will do.   I baked one day, cooled and stacked the cookies inside plastic ware and continued with filling them the next day or whenever there is time.   Once the cut out shapes are sprinkled with powdered sugar, it covers a multitude of irregularities.   It doesn't all have to be done in one shot.


Mini

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Mini's right on the mark. any crumbs will do, including unflavored bread crumbs when cake's not available (take that, Marie Antoinette!).

only thing to keep in mind is to reduce bread crumb amounts by 15-20% when you're substituting, since they're much more absorbent than cake crumbs.

Stan

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

(I tried to edit but Stan was too fast.)  I did buy a cake, it was cheap and saved me lots of time, granted, it is a cheap Austrian cake, low salt and similar to a pound cake.  It's berry season and it was on sale.  I cut it up and tried to dry it as much as I could but it stayed moist.  It lost a little weight and I made up for it with dry bread crumbs.   As Stan states, they are dryer than cake crumbs because cakes are enriched.  I was worried the cake crumbs might be too moist and I might need more dry ingredients but they balanced each other nicely.  Had I used less cake and more bread crumbs, I would have had to reduce the bread crumb amount. 


(I wonder about those Japanese white bread crumbs, they are almost feathery...)


Mini

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I do have Panko in the house...


 


do you think it's worth trying to use them, reducing the amount accordingly as Stan suggests?   It would make my life a lot easier, and probably would not be that bad as a substitution to suggest for people who get the book.   I know for a fact that a recipe that calls for cake crumbs would not go very well with me - I basically never bake a cake... (well, almost never... :-)


 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

that she just posted.  I understand we are going to need some more crumbs.  It's sure to be a good one!  We could nibble off some of the cake and then crumb the rest and freeze!  It might even turn you into a cake person.  I want to eat the crunchies off the top first.  They look so gooood!  Use a couple of bread pans and go for it!


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18304/baking-pound-cake-1964


Mini


(Lab Rat #1 just took a cookie and after the first bite, "Hey, these are good!"  Then after a pause took out a plate, loaded it up and went back upstairs.)

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

Thanks for the pound cake reference, Mini!  It has a very crunchy top but the cake part may be to moist..though you can crumble it.  It's definately not a dry tasting or feeling pound cake and has a lovely creamy flavor. 


Sylvia

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I think I'll bake it tomorrow but it might not go for crumbs.  I don't think it will live that long.   I have a brand new bundt pan I want to test. 


The cake I used for crumbs was also not dry, in fact it refused to dry out.  I think the crumbs collecting in the cake shop kitchens comes from deliciously moist cakes too.  Would they bake anything less?


Mini

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Unfortunately, my cookies did not work at all....  :-(


 


the dough never firmed very well, I had to add more flour, still did not cooperate.   I baked them, but would be embarrassed to show my results


 


Something went terribly wrong, I suspect the cake I bought was too moist or something - I dried it for two days, but still....

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I used unsalted butter.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I didn't dry my cake crumbs at all. It was a very oily dough and I think there was way too much shortening in the recipe - so much so that it was unworkable until I added an extra 100gm of flour. How much did you add, I wonder?


Like Mini, I used unsalted butter, but ran out (!) and had to top up with canola oil.


The finished biscuits were still brittle and tending crumbly, as will always be the case when you have such a high fat content. I suspect the result would not have been up to much without the additional flour, but as things turned out, mine were delicious. Brought back nice memories of Christmas in Germany, probably due to the ground hazelnuts and cinnamon resonances.


Haven't taken any pics yet...will probably upload one tomorrow. Mine are never as elegant and aesthetically delightful as, say, Mini's, but I figure it's interesting to compare each other's bakes. Dunno about others, but I'm baking 'blind' with all these recipes so far. No cause for embarassment if things don't quite work out. Although, looking at my hamatashen compared with the others, I'm not immune from the feeling!


Cheers
Ross


 

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

you can't sub oil for shortening or any fat.  oil will not firm in the fridg it will stay liqued ant even frezzer temp thats the reason for a sticky douth that will not firm.


shortening or butter will get hard at cold temps think what it would be like making a pie dough with oil.


please follow the formulas as written and mesure or scale with care and the formulas should work great. 


 remember these have never been in print before untell you count crumpled stained aging and torn hand written scraps of paper.  some have never been written down at all they are only in my head as they have been passed down verbily from other bakers.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

into the book  "Do's and Don'ts" with substitutions. 


Ross, keep in mind, I did't post the "other" cookies that didn't turn out well.  If there is enough dough, I shape following the guidelines the best I can and then try a few ideas as well.  You only get to see the cookies that "posed."  The lot on the side have their own stories... the Hamatcallas and the Hamatsusans, the Briquettes, the Linzer-squished and Brokeback pieces from moving the cookies too soon off the hot sheet and finally the Almond-splits (I wonder if they aren't too high but that is Norm & Stan's job.)  The only ones I've made before are the Linzer ones thank my Inlaws -- great teachers with the "Intro to Linz, Austria 101" course.  The others are all new. 


My main "Lab Rats" could care less how they look, important that they taste good.  I keep wanting to make the cookies smaller...  so I & others can try more cookies when presented with an assortment plate at Coffee Trinken Time.  The tendancy in America is to make them big which is great for the bag lunch or the kids or the "grab and run" maneuver.


Mini

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

it is the ones that dont come out right are the ones we learn from. so please post them as well my fealings wont be hurt. it is a way or me to check the math and see what happened.  both stan and i are checking very carefully. we don't want to end  up with an error correction sheet like some other books.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

The term 'shortening' is, I think, widely used in the States (don't know about England), but not so commonly in Australia. Here, instead of using the term shortening, recipes would simply specify 'butter', or 'copha' etc.  I have used oil instead of butter/lard/copha etc many times in baking (not my choice - partner has health issues), and have never had a problem. This includes cakes, biscuits and the like. Not pies or pastries, though, which obviously do need butter or some sort of solid fat.


I am aware that you didn't want testers to substitute other ingredients, and as far as I was concerned, I was not substituting when I used oil to top up the butter after I ran out. I would have thought oil was as acceptable as butter, and only used butter because I think it tastes better in biscuits (and in most contexts, come to think about it!).


So, here's an instance of 'cultural confusion', for want of a better word. If you are anticipating a market for your book extending beyond the States (as I expect you are), I believe you need to make it clear in your recipes exactly what does and does not constitute 'shortening' (maybe just a note in the intro section would suffice?). It might even be worth putting the shortening options you consider acceptable in parentheses next to the word 'shortening' in the recipes.


oil will not firm in the fridg it will stay liqued ant even frezzer temp thats the reason for a sticky douth that will not firm.

That's not correct in my experience. I have several bottles of preserved chillies in oil in the fridge, and a jar of olive oil infused with garlic and herbs I use in salad dressings, and in all cases the oil is solidified! I always take my salad dressing oil out of the fridge for some time before using to allow it to liquify!


Further, oil content notwithstanding, with this recipe my dough was so firm when I took it out of the fridge that it was difficult to work until it warmed through hand-kneading - actually, it was so hard after its time in the fridge that it was difficult even to get it out of the bowl initially! And as mentioned above, the end result was excellent! Perhaps I used just enough butter to save the day: reviewing my notes, I used 135gm butter and 205gm oil.


This is not the first recipe I've tested in which my findings were that the ingredients were out. That's not a criticism as such. It's just that I thought one of the points of this testing project was to fine-tune the recipes and modify those in which one or more ingredients were other than optimal in quantity? With respect, if they all worked "great" as is, why would there be any need for testing?


Cheers
Ross


 

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

And stick just to the facts



That's not correct in my experience. I have several bottles of preserved chillies in oil in the fridge, and a jar of olive oil infused with garlic and herbs I use in salad dressings, and in all cases the oil is solidified! I always take my salad dressing oil out of the fridge for some time before using to allow it to liquify!



in this case you have changed the molecular structur of the oil with the additions of chillies and herbs,  which containe diferent oils of their own, this can cause veg oil to jel at cold temps not become solid. plain olive oil also will jel.  However most regular cooking oil such as canola, corn, and regular veg or general purpose oil will not


shortening refers to any fat that is solid at room temp about 75 F wihich oil is not.


 



I used 135gm butter and 205gm oil



Also from what i read you used more oil than butter. to  me thats not topping off to my understanding of the meaning and will make major changes to the formula. (forming a sticky paste rather than a dough).



 Further, oil content notwithstanding, with this recipe my dough was so firm when I took it out of the fridge that it was difficult to work until it warmed through hand-kneading - actually, it was so hard after its time in the fridge that it was difficult even to get it out of the bowl initially!



lasty the hard condition and the fact it needed to be kneaded is normal for this dough (and this dough is in the family of sweet short pastry) is absoluty normal and was in the instructions.  Keading while cold is called breaking the dough and will cause a very slight gluten devolpment which is nessacery to make the dough able to be rolled out with out breaking


i hope this clears up any misunderanding and thanks for helping us test the formulas.


 

SteveB's picture
SteveB


in this case you have changed the molecular structur of the oil with the additions of chillies and herbs...



Norm,


I mean this truly as a friendly suggestion... you may not want to include scientific statements in your book without having a qualified scientist thoroughly review them.


Best of luck with your new book.


 


SteveB


www.breadcetera.com




 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I too have found that oils (specifically olive oil) that are liquid at 40ºF when pure become solid at that temperature when mixed with an acidic substance, in my case vinegar. There is usually salt, pepper and herbs, mustard and other stuff in the mix, too. The scientific name for this compound is "salad dressing." 


As one of our "qualified scientist" members - a biochemist, as I recall - can you offer a corrected explanation for Norm's?


David

SteveB's picture
SteveB

David, I didn't realize I passed the qualifying exam!  :>)


My comment was merely meant to draw attention to the fact that mixing two substances together, and thereby causing a change in a physical property (e.g. adding salt to ice to lower the ice's melting point... the scientific name for this is "salting your driveway"), isn't necessarily the result of changing either of the substances' molecular structures.  One can affect intermolecular interactions, and thus certain physical properties, without changing molecular structure.


If Norm can tell us how an oil's molecular structure is changed by adding herbs, I'm all ears...


 


SteveB


www.breadcetera.com


 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

when I put my oil, vinegar and herbs in a blender it becomes creamy..I always refered to it as 'emulsified'.  Would this be correct?


Sylvia

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

David, I am a biochemist, although I have to say that the word "biochemist"  conveys a huge HUGE world of stuff - being a biochemist does not make a person an expert in fatty acids, for instance.


However, when you mix an oil with things like vinegar, mustard, herbs - you are not solidifying the oil in the sense of changing its chemical basic structure, you are only making an emulsion, "suspending" the oil into a hydrophilic (aqueous) environment.


I agree, though - to include scientific statements in any cookbook, it is better to consult a biochemist, and in this case an EXPERT in lipids, which is quite a complex field of research

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The issue, though, is the state change that occurs in salad dressing when it's chilled. Time to search.


David 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

but I do like humor when all is said and done : )


Sylvia

SteveB's picture
SteveB

No, that was not the issue I raised.  I'm still waiting for Norm to explain how an oil's molecular structure is changed by adding herbs, as he stated in his post.


 


SteveB


www.breadcetera.com


 

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

David, my salad oil is not a dressing as such. It is just extra virgin olive oil infused with cut garlic cloves and sometimes - but not always - herbs. There is no vinegar. I add vinegar only when I make my dressings, which I do just before serving salad. I never store dressings - only the garlic infused oil. I find dressings taste better assembled fresh with herbs plucked straight from the garden.


Scientific explanations aside, here's a simple experiment that will clear up any doubts over whether olive oil does or does not solidify at fridge temperatures (not addressing you personally...just writing in the context of this discussion): store some olive oil in a jar by itself in the fridge for 24 hours then have a look at it. In this case, you don't need scientific expertise to assess the facts - all you need is your eyes!

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Also from what i read you used more oil than butter. to  me thats not topping off to my understanding of the meaning and will make major changes to the formula. (forming a sticky paste rather than a dough).

Yes, quite correct: I used the term "topping up" erroneously, before I had checked my notes. I did indeed use much more oil than butter, but it is not correct that this resulted in a 'sticky paste rather than a dough'. It was never sticky - just oily! And with the addition of an extra 105gm of flour, it was certainly a dough!



lasty the hard condition and the fact it needed to be kneaded is normal for this dough (and this dough is in the family of sweet short pastry) is absoluty normal and was in the instructions.



Yes - and this is my point! The dough and the biscuits worked out fine - and behaved 'normally' as you put it, using 2/3rd oil! I'm not being deliberately awkward here - just relating the facts as I noted them. Theory is one thing; practice another.


I should add that I am simply stating my truth as it relates to this recipe, not defending my use of oil. I have noted and accept your point that it does not qualify as 'shortening'. Now that I know that, I will not be making such a substitution again.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

for the Linzer Cookies either in the recipe or as a tip.  It is very educational.



Keading while cold is called breaking the dough and will cause a very slight gluten devolpment which is necessary to roll out the dough without breaking.



I let my dough sit out for a half hour before rolling, I cut the kneading short thinking it was only to warm up the dough a bit.  Had I known, I might not have squished up the dough half way thru the first roll because the dough was ripping/tearing (but that is really nothing new and now I know why, Thank you!)  It stuck to itself nicely when I overlapped the rips to mend and when I set two ripped cookie pieces together they baked out beautifully.   Yes, I would have preferred cold with a little more gluten.  Instead of warmer dough with less.  That is my fault but the info would have been useful.  I did use more flour than my average for rolling out the dough, which was AP.


I still love the dough and the mouth feel and taste is in high demand.  The cookies made it to a prominant coffee circle.  I have been asked several times already for the recipe.     Which I am safely guarding.  A plate of cookies also went to my neighbor when I asked to borrow him & his tractor, absolutely no problem!  The next day the plate was returned with a smile.  So now I'm working on my garden steps as soon as it stops raining. 


Mini

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

that this will be in the book and i am sorry if it was left out of the instructions.  the dough for linz as well as any type of cutout or shortbread cookie (buscut) in the sweet short pastry family  should be handled the same


keep the dough as cold as possible but placing the dough back into the mixer for a minute or two after an over night chill will do to things


one.. will re work the fats to a plastic consistency ( they don't break or crumble like a very hard fat) like modeling clay


two will develop a very small amount of gluten which makes the dough abale to be rolled with out the dough tearing or crumbeling.


also note that the dough shoule only be mixed once. then fresh dough should be placed in the mixer along with the scrap dough left over from cuting out the cookies and mixed together.


in any event the dough should (idealy) not be rolled out more than two times without some fresh dough added.  after the second roll you will see the dough start to change color and get dry and break in to pieces when rolled (third time the dough gets old and overworked) making a tough cookie (due to the devolpment of to much glutin and the absorbtion of all that extra flour used to keep the dough from sticking when rolling)


ps: being you are only 5 Km from linz i greatfully accept your coments as one of the greatest i have every received... my feet have still not come down to the floor :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

without adding fresh dough and the last two ugly shaped lumps of dough still had a good mouth feel.  I ate them first while I was testing my jam. This is the stuff that impresses me.  I did not go to the coffee with the cookies.  The requests came over the telephone!  So stay floating!


I let one Chinese Cookie get hard.  I stuck it in the cake box with the last of Sylvia's pound cake for about 6 hours and last night I ate it, soft and tasty with a glass of milk before bed.  Another good point.  Keep floating!


Now I'm onto another familiar recipe.  These salty bread sticks also get stuffed with garlic in these parts and stretched out to a foot long!  They are then topped with a mixture of caraway and flax seed.  I will stick to the recipe.  (For most of them.)


Mini

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I should have measured how much extra flour I had to add, but I did not.  At that point I was in full desperation mode, trying to make the dough turn into something that could be rolled out


I used shortening, measured everything very carefully with the scale, except for the egg, which I used large, without weighing.  I doubt that would be the problem, though


 


 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Thems look delicious!!!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

davidg618's picture
davidg618

I wound them really tight to see how much they would expand. They tripled proofing and boiling, and still doubled with oven spring.


David G


 

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

These are lovely, if I ever get around to making bagels these will be my first shape to make..lovely...and I love the really big ones in the photo sent in above, nice work.


Sylvia

davidg618's picture
davidg618

Does your comment mean you've never made bagels, or just not recently? If the answers never, I'm amazed. I thought there's nothing you haven't baked, and baked well!


David G

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

and my husband used eat them all the time.  To many carbs and just not a bagel fan; I guess is my best excuse.  I do like the look of the twisted ones.  When I have eaten bagels I like the ones with dried fruit in them or plain and toasted. 


Sylvia

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

the recipe arrived on Wednesday evening for me


 


maybe you should double check with Stan, because I think you are supposed to be baking those before Monday


 


 

cherylmathew's picture
cherylmathew

I have sent you 2 emails without any response. This is unusual as you always respond. It may be possible my messages have been marked as spam. Pls check, thanks.
Cheryl

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

Cake Crumbs


Sorry folks I have been busy with this book. Bakers do not waste anything. If you want to be real bakers that is the first rule to learn (well it was the first thing i learned and it was a painfull lesson as i felt the slap of a german hand on my head as i put a few used pieces of parchment in the trash).


Anything that does not get sold goes into the crumb bin. Left over cinnamon buns, leftover Danish. Left over doughnuts, croissants and of course left over cake is used for crumbs. In fact anything that does not have heavy icing (the white icing on buns is ok) such as butter creams, cheese fillings, fruit fillings, and jellies and jams are used for crumbs.


Most of you bake many things other than cake so it is time to stop tossing these stale items out. Just leave them out at room temp exposed to air, not in plastic wrap or anything, just leave them out in a big bowl (that way they will not mold)


When they are completely dry grind them up into crumbs when ground use a course sifter get out any pieces that did not grind and as long as they are completely dry they will hold for 90 days and longer.


 i am sure you will accumulate quite a lot of crumbs very soon.


Baker's use these crumbs as a way to prevent loss of money and time. In addition, in some formulas they add texture and a great flavor.


If you end up with too many crumbs, there will be formulas in the book for nut cake and spice cake. Should you make to much spice and nut cakes guess what! The stale cake made with crumbs GOES RIGHT BACK INTO THE CRUMB BIN TO MAKE MORE CRUMBS. So stop feeding the garbage and start feeding the crumb bin.


That is all for now


Time for back to work (bad movie reference) Tor Johnson (the super sweedish angel)

Pablo's picture
Pablo

Time for go to bed now


So surprised to find that reference!  Now if you mention MST3K and Joel I'll faint.


:-Paul

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

was great but so was mike

Pablo's picture
Pablo

We felt that Joel had so much more humility as the host, he was able to stand back and let the 'bots have the show, be their straight man even, whereas Mike always seemed to hog the camera, he didn't seem able to really step back, at least not as the host - he was always mugging.  When he was a guest character while Joel was the host he did do some great stuff.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.  Anyway, what a great show it was.  We have all the Joel tapes (even back to KTMA) and often watch them while drifting off to dreamland.  Gamera, etc.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

this is way off for this thread and i agree theshow was great with both of them and joel (the one who thought the whole thing up in the first place) was the better of the two but i did love them both mike was the best in the special parts 


torgo's pizza (its still hot!!!)


i have seen and know of only one surviving KTMA fan tape if you have more i would gladly pay for a copy ( it more customary to trade in true MST3K tradishion (sp) but i don't have much other than other digital downloads.


Gamera...


Gamera


gamera is realy neet  gamera is full of meat i"m in love with Gammmmmerrrrrrraaaaaaaaa


 

Pablo's picture
Pablo

I'd be happy to make you a copy of the KTMA season.  I sent you a message to get this posting off the discussionn of your book and recipes.


:-Paul

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

For the second week's recipe I made  Onion Pockets.  They were terrific and I will certainly be making them again.  I was a bit careless in the shaping and cutting of the pockets and so had quite a wide range of sizes.  My tasters (I shanghai my family) and I each had one hot out of the oven (Stan & Norm: sorry we could not wait the 30 minutes).  For lunch this week I used one to make a great sandwich.  The flavor was great, soft crust and a the texture of the crumb was great.


 


Here is half the batch:



 


I look forward to making the next recipe, which for me are the Montreal Bagels.  I've had some problems with bagels in the past which I hope I can correct.


 


Happy Baking!


Dwayne

Zeb's picture
Zeb

Filled fruit buns - look a lot like the ones posted above, phew! and I believe the expression is 'crashed and burned' on the Wonder Cake. Stan has sent me nice email about the Wonder Cake, so I am carrying on regardless with my British flours and my hand mixer.  Any one else do this one?  It's vey challenging, the idea I guess, doing these without a picture, so it's lovely to see your pics here, I wish I had thought to come and look right away!


Fruit filled buns


nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

don't waste it.  cut it into small pieces and let it get dry , grind it up for cake crumbs for cinnamon buns danish or some of the testing formulas.


 

plevee's picture
plevee

When is this book coming out? I would really like to buy a copy.  Patsy

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

I don't think we will make the holiday season so we are looking to make it to Q1 of next year

Urchina's picture
Urchina

It was delicate, it was buttery, it was good. And now it is (almost) gone. 



davidg618's picture
davidg618

Still warm from the oven.



I considered scoring the loaf, but the instructions didn't call for scoring. As expected, it split. I like the rustic look. I like to let rye breads rest for at least 24 hours before I cut them, so I'll post a crumb shot tomorrow.


David G.

alabubba's picture
alabubba

That is one FANTASTIC looking loaf. When are they going to get the smell-a-vision working!?

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm impressed with how round it is. The Greenstein recipe tends to produce rather flat loaves. I hope you post a crumb shot and tasting notes.


The bursting testifies to the oven spring you got. I'm making mine today. I may try docking the loaf.


David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

It seems I learn new things all the time here. I am finally getting back to reading these older threads (barley bread dough is rising now) and you said you may try "docking" the loaf. This semi-newbie would appreciate it. Edited to say: Could you explain this technique to me? (I guess I thought you could read my mind...)


Thanks!


Trish =)

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Hi, Trish.


Docking is the term used for poking holes in the top of a loaf before baking. This is to "let off steam," as far as I know. It is an alternative to scoring to keep a loaf from bursting. AFAIK, docking of this sort is only done with rye breads.


See Corn Rye (Kornbroyt) reprise in this topic for an example and Hansjoakim's Favorite 70% Sourdough Rye for another.


In commercial bakeries, this is done with a tool - a roller with teeth sticking out. I use a chopstick.


Hope this answers your question.


David

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Thank you David!


 


T

davidg618's picture
davidg618


Crust: thick, very chewy


Crumb:dense but not heavy, chewy!


Flavor: Rye and Caraway--I cut back on the caraway by 1/3; glad I did, it's present but not dominating. This is rye bread at its best.


Toasted, for breakfast, with a dab of butter. Had to have seconds.


David G

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

It is delicious, indeed. I had some toasted this morning too.


I'm thinking of making another this weekend for a rye-loving friend.


David

mezalkb's picture
mezalkb

So far I am having a great time doing this.  It is wonderful to see all the beautiful pictures everyone has posted.  My family has taken to asking "What will you be making this week?"  They all look forward to the results.


Here is the Walnut rolls I made. The kids loved it.


From Food

The Sour cream cake was good also

From Food

But we liked it best with some berries

From Food

 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'll save my comments on the sour cream coffee cake, in case I get it to test when the groups rotate. Warning: I married my wife for her sour cream coffee cake. It was her birthday present to me, shortly after we met. Over the forty-two and a half years since we were married, I've discovered she has many other admirable talents, but the sour cream coffee cake is still special. 


David

mezalkb's picture
mezalkb

I am sure your wife's is excellent, hard to beat a beloved recipe like that.  I would have made some changes to the recipe if it were me but it was well received by all that tried it.  I also usually bring the some of what I make to the office for sampling (need to keep portion control at home).

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I love the transliteration of this bread's name from the Yiddish! That's the way my grandfathers talked. Words we would pronounce with a long "O" or sometimes "AU" sound, the Eastern European Yiddish speakers pronounced "Oy."  "Torah" was pronounced "Toyrah" (with a slight, soft guttural "r," too.)


It's a near dead language - Yiddish.




Isaac Bashevis Singer's speech at the Nobel Banquet, December 10, 1978


Your Majesties, Your Royal Highnesses, Ladies and Gentlemen,

People ask me often, 'Why do you write in a dying language?' And I want to explain it in a few words.


Firstly, I like to write ghost stories and nothing fits a ghost better than a dying language. The deader the language the more alive is the ghost. Ghosts love Yiddish and as far as I know, they all speak it. 


For the entire speech (worth reading!): 


http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/literature/laureates/1978/singer-speech.html



 


But Corn Rye lives on! Whatever you call it.



 


I didn't get as much bursting as DavidG. Having the benefit of seeing his bread, I let mine proof longer than I would have otherwise. I got one minor burst on the top and a couple larger ones at the junction of the sides and bottom of the loaf.



I haven't

sliced this yet. I might wait until tomorrow to slice it, but I will keep smelling it!


Added: I was weak. I only lasted 6 hours.



Corn Rye profile, cut.



Corn Rye crumb


The crust is thick and very chewy. This is a dense, heavy bread. For a rye lover, it's a classic. I've never had a corn rye this good. It is moderately sour with a strong presence of both rye and caraway flavors. The crumb is also quite chewy, even though there is no perceptible gluten development.


Oh, my! Not a pastrami in sight! (Actually, it's wonderful, just plain.)


David

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

for a real taste of home (at least for me -- and healthy diet be damned) try it with a schmear of rendered chicken fat and a little salt, or the way my grandmother used to eat it -- lightly rubbed with a cut clove of garlic!


Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I've never seen a chemical analysis of schmaltz. It's liquid at room temperature. This means it probably doesn't have a lot of saturated fats. Who knows? It might be as good for you as olive oil.


Calories? Who's counting?


Anyway, garlic is well known to be an essential nutrient. I'm sure it counteracts anything harmful in anything.


David

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Or, you could roast the garlic until soft, then blend it with the schmaltz, and make a Jewish garlic butter. We functionally do this by braising a whole chicken with 40 cloves of garlic in a paella pan, then taking the rendered fat and pan juices and roasted garlic cloves and smearing it on bread. It's delish.  

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I hope I remember to do that next time I roast a chicken.


I never knew my paternal grandmother, and I don't know much about her cooking. The one thing my father told me about it (frequently) was how she made roast chicken. She made a paste of schmaltz, salt and crushed garlic and coated the chicken with the paste before roasting it. The drippings must have been wonderful! 


David

Urchina's picture
Urchina

I often spatchcock (butterfly) our chicken before roasting flat on a rimmed baking sheet. I cut out the backbone using kitchen shears, flip the bird over, break the breastbone by pushing down on it, then run my fingers under the skin to loosen it. Then I put a mix of minced garlic, salt, pepper and olive oil under the skin, on the breasts and thighs, and then lightly oil and salt and pepper the top of the skin. Roast in a 425 degree oven till done (about 35-40 minutes for the birds I normally get). 


The rendered drippings are amazing as a dip for crusty bread (and as a subsequent base for chicken and vegetable soup or chili), and the chicken is flavorful, succulent, and tender. And don't even get me started on the skin.  


 


I think I would have liked your grandma's cooking, especially if she made Babka. It's my new favorite. 


 

Elagins's picture
Elagins

and that MD after your name gives added weight (which I surely don't need) to your words. Can I say that my doc said it was ok when my cholesterol breaks 400?

Happy father's day

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

FYI


        Proportions of fatty acids as percentage of total fatty-acid content



Fat or Oil

Saturated Fatty Acids

Monounsaturated Fatty Acids

Polyunsaturated Fatty acids*

Butter

62

29

4

Margarine (stick)

19

59

18

Chicken

30

45

21

Beef

50

42

4

Vegetable shortening

31

51

14

Corn

13

24

59

Olive

13

74

8

Canola

7

55

33

Safflower

9

12

75

Coconut oil

86

6

2

Cocoa butter

60

35

2

* Note that those terrible trans-fats re included. (Chemically, they are polyunsaturated.)

McGee, Harold, On Food and Cooking: The Science and Lore of The Kitchen, Scribner, NY, 2004, pg. 800.

Among animal fats, chicken fat is lowest in cholesterol - 77 mgms/100gms. Clarified butter is 200 mgms/100 gms.

Source: http://www.fatfreekitchen.com/cholesterol/cholesterol-oils.html

Note: All data are without garlic.

David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

no wonder grandma always preferred schmaltz to butter ... somewhere, deep down in her Ukrainian Jewish soul, she just knew, even without all those fancy-schmancy statistics.

Happy Father's Day!

Stan

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

And now you know why they didn't eat too much coconut in the Ukraine. 


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

My troupe of virgins have been helping me out. (I'm keeping them busy.)  The green ones are Dragon eyes and my own idea with pumpkin seed.  I got happy tasters (lab rats.)


dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I haven't had one of those in years! I used to love them.


I don't see the "green ones." 


David

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I rolled them in chopped pumpkin seeds, the two go well together, almonds and pumpkin seed.  After the honeymoon, I was afraid to overdue the rolling in the seeds.  These were the first to vanish.  If the almonds are "eyes" then these look like dragon eyes to me.  


Those Ryes turned out fantastic!  I can't wait!   And that walnut roll...  fruit rolls...  oh my!


Mini

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Sometimes, a cookie is just a cookie. 


The Corn Rye is delicious. I had some for lunch - a kosher salami sandwich with garlicky pickles and Vernor's ginger ale. (It's a combo from my ancestral village, Detroit.)


David

PMcCool's picture
PMcCool

The best ginger ale in the entire US of A!  Haven't seen any of that here in the RSA.  There are, however, some pretty decent ginger beers available.


Still, Vernor's.  The gingery burn in the throat, the tingly tickle in the nose...  Float a scoop of vanilla ice cream on top and it just doesn't get much better.  One of the few things in Michigan that still works as good as it used to.


The last couple of times I've been home, I've seen Stroh's ice cream.  Any connection to the Strohs of brewing fame?


Paul


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Oh, Paul. I haven't done that for so long! My father's preference was chocolate ice cream. Excellent!


Vernor's has been available in California from a plant in Gardena (LA area) for quite a while. Before that (1960's), my uncle, who had moved to CA to attend Stanford Law School and stayed in San Francisco, would bring back gallon jugs of Vernor's syrup when he went back to Detroit.


David

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Another HUGE fan of Vernor's here!  My husband is from Michigan and introduced me to Vernor's 12 years ago (we do have then here in Oklahoma)


 


it you guys ever go to Brazil, try a soda called  "Guarana'  "  it is similar, although slightly more sweet, but very delicious too.   


 


Vernor's is amazing,  at first I thought all ginger ales would be the same, so I bought one of those "generic" kinds: huge disappointment.  I am surprised they are allowed to call it by that name!

LindyD's picture
LindyD

You're right on about Vernor's still going strong (and cherished) here in the rust belt of Michigan, Paul.


And yes, Stroh's Ice Cream was part of the Stroh's Brewery - fab with Vernor's poured over it!


Better Maid is still in business and producing great chips.  I recall going to their plant to buy a large bag of their "overdone" lovely brown, caramelized chips for all of twenty-five cents.  Now they're selling them for about three bucks.

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

Really enjoyed these. Easy, relatively quick and delicious. And sub-lethal butter content, for a change!


dwcoleman's picture
dwcoleman

Very tasty and turned out great.  This is my first successful rye bread from sourdough starter.



 


margieluvschaz's picture
margieluvschaz

I can't wait for the book to be complete.  I see so many things I want to try- the twisted bagels, challah loaf, walnut rolls & onion pockets all look great.- ok actually everything looks fantastic!  Very exciting!


Margie

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Should the dough be fermented/proofed to the point it bursts less, or is the bursting expected and desirable?


Do you ever dock corn rye? 


David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

In an oven with steam injection ( yes i know not many people have a boiler or steam injector on their oven) there is enough steam to keep the bursting it a minimum.  my corn rye would open at the bottom as your picture shows but the crust on top would hold.  In a home oven docking the bread a few times with a stick (like a chopstick) should help.  using as much steam as you can make will help also.


or perhaps one of thouse clay cover thingys


Best guess since i have never used one.


as for fremanted


 the dough is mixed alowed to rise then shaped and put right into the oven. it must be shaped gently as so not beat the h**l out of it and keep as much gas as posable in the bread. since it goes right into the oven with out any proof if you knock it flat or  lose to much gas the crust might crack because of oven spring.  if you can keep as much gas as you can their will be less spring and then less cracking.


ether way if it tastes great to you and like it thats whats important 


Ps ( since this bread can be used as a boat anchor it was sold by the pound so most people never saw a whole loaf so we would hide the cracks by cutting the bread along the crack lines)


what the eye does not see the chef can getaway with ;)

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Next time, I believe I'll try docking the loaf (I do use a chopstick) and baking under a stainless steel bowl until the oven is turned down.


I rounded up the loaf best I could as I transferred it from the mixing bowl to the container for fermenting. I was very gentle in final shaping, as instructed. However, I would think de-gassing the dough would decrease oven spring. (There are fewer bubbles to expand.) What am I missing?


David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

it is strange but i have seen and experenced over proofed rye fall almost flat when picked up and put on a peel. 


however when put into the oven with lots and lots of steam it springs back to full size and has a good crumb and crust. 


 it could be because rye is very yeast friendly. other breads will just fall but rye has an amazing recovery ability.  why i dont know but i have seen it many times.

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

This is my 3rd week's recipe.  I was very peased with the way they turned out and looked.  I've never made bagels that looked this good before.



Dwayne

Urchina's picture
Urchina

Those put any bagels available out here to shame. As do David's. 


I am so looking forward to testing a bagel recipe. Us west coasters don't really have access to good ones....

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I love the color you got - both how dark they are and the evenness of the color. Any comments on chewiness and flavor?


David

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

Thanks David!  I tried to follow the instructions very carefully as I have had problems with making bagels in the past (they looked a bit shriveled).  The color is partly due to the Malt Syrup in the boiling water and then baking.  I used a baking stone.  The may be a bit over done, but the color was nice.


 


These were not all that chewy as I used bread flour instead of High Gluten flour.  The crumb was not dense, really fairly light.  Again this was probably due to the flour or it could be due to these not having any salt in the dough.  What type of flour did you use on your twisted bagels?  They really looked nice.


 


Dwayne

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I used KAF Sir Lancelot. The bagels were very chewy. High gluten flour makes the best bagels ... when they are fresh. They do not freeze and reheat well, I'm sorry to discover. 


David

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Because the MBs don't retard, they don't have anywhere near the autolyse time that traditional NY water bagels have. Therefore, you're not going to get close to the kind of gluten development (= chewy).

Glad you guys are loving them ... so far, we're really pleased with how well these formulas are turning out ... thanks so much and keep up the good work!

Stan

Urchina's picture
Urchina

How is it possible that I am the first one to post on this recipe? It was a slam-dunk hit, even with my very good at baking, very particular in her tastes friend. The look on her face as she took her first bite and said "Oh, my!" was the best baking praise I've ever earned, 


 


I'm definitely keeping this recipe. I'm going to make it for our family reunion this summer and blow everyone away. It's that good. Thanks, Norm and Stan!


 


In these photos the crust looks burned, but it's not. The loaves are dark brown, as per the instructions, but no black. It's tasty!


 



 


 


 


 


 


 

mezalkb's picture
mezalkb

My 4th week assignment was an apple cake.  The flavor was good but I like a cake that is really moist, this is not. But, it does look good.


 


From Food

From Food
bnom's picture
bnom

The one I made was nicely moist...even two days later.  I baked it 5 minutes less than called for so that might have made the difference.  We all loved it.

mezalkb's picture
mezalkb

I will have to give it another try baking 5 minutes less and maybe do it in a 9x13 this time.  Glad yo enjoyed it, I ususallyreally like apple cakes.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

and flavor improve with age..eaten a couple of days, much improved.


Betty

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Hi folks,


I've been lurking and learning from all of you for quite a while.  It's time to post a picture.


Betsy

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

To all of you for testing.


I just wanted to take a minute to thank all of you for taking the time and materials to test these formulas.


What we are doing is looking at all (and we do look at all of them) these feadback forms that were sent in to check our math (remember some of these formulas started with as much as 36 pounds of sugar) and to adjust the formulas for the home baker.


Because of the great feadback we have adjusted some of the formulas and corrected some math mistakes that happened as the formulas were reduced to make them more practable for the average home kitchen.


Your help will make this book something special Thank you all.

msfitz3's picture
msfitz3

I'm having great fun with the testing. Thanks for the opportunity :)


Jennifer

alabubba's picture
alabubba

An interesting recipe.

Elagins's picture
Elagins

that's as beautiful a loaf as i've seen ... you guys are fantastic! can we use that image in the book?

Stan

alabubba's picture
alabubba

I would be honored!


Let me know if I need to send some kind of release or something

bnom's picture
bnom

That looks like a much more successful loaf than I made. Have you tasted it yet?  Mine was quite dry and tough--good flavor but a mandible workout! I had to substitute the coarse rye meal with rye berries I coarsely ground myself.  I thought the substitution would be close enough but maybe not...

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Its almost gone. Thick crust with lots of chew gave way to a moist dense crumb. Strong rye flavor.


By accident we found out that it is FABULOUS grilled. The strong flavor holds up well and still shines through the flavor imparted by grilling.


I am lucky enough to live near War Eagle Mill and had a supply of Course Rye. My local market had Bob's Red Mill Dark Rye flour.

njbetsy's picture
njbetsy

Hi everyone,


I doubled the recipe when I made the Plovnik and chose to shape it elongated since I didn't want gigantic slices.  Since I didn't wrap the bread after cooling, I found it difficult to slice.  At first I used a knife and it was too much of a workout.  Then I switched to an electric knife and got really thin slices, but I thought I was overheating the knife.  Today I went to the supermarket and had the bakery slice it in the machine.  It's not as thin as I would like it, but it is absolutely delicious.  I served it with smoked salmon, red onions and capers.  My picture is posted above.


Betsy

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

in old time culture were never sliced.  the were presented to the table whole and passed around to each dinner that tore off a hunk and then passed the bread to the next person.  thats how the very old saying of breaking bread started and asking some one to shair your meal was done by asking the person to " come and break bread with us(me)" and was considered and accepted as a high honer.  the most important guest or the head of the family was allowed to break the bread first.


Now with the strong metals that our knives are made of bread is commenly sliced but some of the old time breads have such a strong crust they can make even the strongest of knifes cry out for mercy.


I will say that eather way torn, sliced, plain or with salmon i am realy happy you liked it :)

mhjoseph's picture
mhjoseph

A little sloppy but that doesn't detract from the taste. They are made with a cream cheese pastry.For some reason I can't rotate the picture but you get the idea.


 



 

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

It's been enjoyable seeing what everyone is doing with Norm's recipes. I'm posting here just so I don't miss anything.


Great Job everyone.


weavershouse

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I am not sure even where to post this, and confess to having trouble finding the new posts in the middle of this huge thread


 


Today I baked "Salt Sticks", and they are awesome!  Not sure I shaped them correctly, but I include two photos, the first of the incredible rise of the dough (I went to the grocery store, came back in one hour and found it in that state.... can you say overproofed?   :-)


 


still, they had plenty of lift still and turned out really tasty - I added caraway seeds only to half of them, as stepson is not too crazy about that flavor


 



 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think posting at the end of the thread is just right, since yours is the first post on this particular recipe.


I've never had a NY salt stick, but from what I've read (in Greenstein) and what I've found in California Jewish bakeries, yours are puffier and have fewer rotations than "standard." They were thinner and longer than a croissant, and had a gentle curve.


The ones I've had were delicious when very fresh but staled very quickly.


David

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Oh, shoots....


 


I guess I should have googled for images of "salt sticks", so I would not butcher mine... 


 


They taste really wonderful - husband gave two thumbs high up!

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think your salt sticks look great ... just not exactly like the ones I've had. And, as we know, the proof of the salt stick is in the eating. I'm sure if your husband had 3 thumbs, they would merited "three thumbs high up." 


In context, the lesson is that the recipe authors may need to provide better shaping instructions and some photos or illustrations.


David

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

if you were working for me as a baker i would have no problem with putting them in the roll case and i am sure they would sell so fast that there would be no stale rolls to make bread crumbs.


good job!

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

And thanks for posting your pics. I'm having trouble visualising how the sticks should look going purely by the textual recipe description and am glad to now have some idea from your interpretation. They sure look yummy!


Cheers
Ross

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

I think in the recipe evaluation I will suggest a little more detail in the shaping, possibly with illustrations.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I think it's the dough.  I had a rough time rolling them up as well.  I'm going to try them again sometime but with a different trick.  Rolling out in pizzas first, rest, cut into segments and then roll up.  I've had more luck with that approach.   I still think they look good they just don't look like these: http://theinversecook.wordpress.com/2008/02/15/salzstangerl/


The ones that are hollow were filled with nuked garlic in mash potatoes.



Mini

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

 


 



Mini i make these yeasterday and yours look exactly like mine!!!


MAYBE BETTER :(


what elce can i say... :)

Elagins's picture
Elagins

Sally,

those look a lot closer to the salt sticks of the Jewish bakery than those Salzstaengerl from the link in Mini's post. the ones i grew up with were not truly "sticks" as much as sticks tapered on both ends, like yours, but perhaps a bit thinner in the middle. i think next time if you pull the point of the dough further out while you're rolling the stick you'll get closer to the real thing.

still, Norm's comment is about the highest praise you can get and i heartily concur.

Stan

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

:-)

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

VERY cold ambient temperatures where I am at the moment (max inside temp 14C/57F today). Far from getting the dramatic lift Sally's pic shows, I ended up having to extend the recommended bulk and final proof times.


Pleased with the end result. Had these babies with a big bowl of peasanty spicy Italian sausage and vegetable soup for dinner tonight, accompanied by a nice shared bottle of Cab Shiraz. There are worse ways to compensate for a chill winter's night!


Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

But wait...  is that an ear?  I don't remember reading any allowments for ears!  I think I would have to eat that one if I was anywhere nearby.  You're lucky mister, I'm grounded.  And a crispy ear at that...  tempting me with such goodies.  :P


Ok, Ross, ready to do the twist? 


Mini

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

...ah'm ready, like I wasn't last summer!


Never made challah - never even tasted it! If anyone could educate me on how it's usually eaten (accompaniments, at end of meal, beginning, as a snack etc), would be appreciative.


Ta for your kind comments on my salt sticks, BTW. Of course, that ear was a result of imperfect shaping, but I'll take happy accidents like that whenever they come my way...!


Cheers
R

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

I have been on vacation and just catching up on my baking.  I had never baked either recipe so it was interesting to say the least.  The Egg Bagels were fun and easy - I learned a bit about seeding the bagles (not so good looking but good tasting).  I should have let the bagels drain on the rack before placing them in the sesame seed bowl - my seeds got all wet and messy.  Next time will be better ....


I was assigned plovnik - black rye.  I will start by saying I am not a big fan of any kind of rye unless it is two pieces of rye sandwiching a lot of corn beef, sour krout and Swiss cheese - and it is grilled in butter.  Ok with that said I will give my woes on this assignment: (1) could not find dark rye or rye meal - I live in North Carolina, (2) do not have a rye sour and based on my like for rye did not want to invest in starting one, and (3) following the formula seemed to result in a wet dough for me and the bake came out a little flat - it did get some oven spring but not much.  The bright side of all this is my wife LOVES rye.  I am sharing my photo of it to set a new "low" for the group and make everyone else feel good :-)


Egg Bagel



 


"NOT SO BLACK" Plovnik (really "just" rye)



 


On to cookies now - I can taste the "sweet" life already.


Ben


 

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I made them also. They were very easy to make. They didn't have any chew though, kind of bready. What did you think? I think a longer turn in the malt bath would help improve the chew. Stan said on the Montreal bagels lack of retarding also effects this.


Don't be so hard on yourself!! Your rye looks respectable and if your wife says it tastes good..who are you to argue  ;  )


 


Betty

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Betty,


The rye was suppose to be "black rye" bread - it is "red rye" bread. 


Yes, my egg bagels wee a little bready but I thought that may because of the eggs and oil.  They are pretty much gone


My next recipe is the horseshoe cookies - 24 of them = 12 for me and 12 for my wife OR a more sensible strategy would be to share with some of my neighbors - I am a diabetic :-) (really no laughing matter, but it is getting late).


Ben

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

is retarding in the fridge for tomorrow. Are you baking tomorrow?


If you have your numbers under control..do enjoy one..but be good to yourself and share with the neighbors  :  )


I'll be watching for your test results.


Betty

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

These sweet rolls look like cinnamon rolls, don't they?


I always want to like cinnamon rolls but generally find them boring except for being too sweet, which is annoying. 


These rolls are to die for (or from, if you have a cholesterol problem already). These rolls are not boring and are just the right sweetness, to my taste. My wife, who does not like very sweet stuff but loves pastry took seconds and said, "I could finish them." 


I want full credit for not tasting them until they were cooled and even getting a photo with all seven intact. I hope there are some left for breakfast.




 


David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

They look wonderful and I'm looking forward to finding out what makes them tick!


I love Sticky buns..to me like a Cinnamon bun with a caramely (sp?) glaze rather than cream cheese and sugar..which is too cloying for me.


Need to raise your cholesterol some more..split them in half crosswise and make French toast with them. No syrup needed..just some more butter!


My assignment for this weekend is Horseshoes..an almond paste filled pastry. The dough is retarding overnight and I will share my luck, good or bad, tomorrow!


Betty

davidg618's picture
davidg618

...and then there were none! Thanks for the visual goal for my own effort with the Seven Sisters.


David G.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Which one of you was an Austrian Baker in a former life? 

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

it was this very recent life


if there is another after this however


i would do it all over again.

rozzibread's picture
rozzibread


Having trouble uploading photos... all seems to be going well with Group A breads, though I was very disappointed with my Plovnik. The crumb seemed gummy and sour, even though I let it rest for the 2 full days.


other 3 recipes were great... looking forward to horsehoes.

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

rozzibread,


I was not too surprized that my Plovnik did turn out so good - have not cut it yet since it still has another 24 hour to "stablize".  Youe photo looks nice - sorry the crumb is gummy.  I was curious - was your final dough very soft, wet and sticky? 


Ben

rozzibread's picture
rozzibread

Yes - but I wouldn't call it "soft". Sticky & wet, yes - but very dense. Shaping didn't take much, because it just acted like a lump. I fear that I did something wrong in the sponge stage, because the sponge never doubled (thought it did get bubbly and fresh-sour smelling). Could also be that it just needed to bake longer than 2 hours.


I expected a dense bread, but not like this. I think I'm also just used to a springy-er dough that has some elasticity - which may not be inherent to this bread.


Hope yours is better!


 

cmf's picture
cmf

My assignment last week was the Corn Rye and despite my initial reservations and general dislike of rye doughs, this turned out to be the bread of my childhood memories.  My Polish grandmother used to buy dense, chewy rye bread chock full of caraway, slice it thickly, cram it into her toaster, slather it with soft butter and sprinkle it heavily with cinnamon sugar (packaged in a plastic bear - so surprising that a frugal woman who wouldn't let you use a paper towel would purchase cinnamon sugar instead of mixing it herself).  That toast was heaven and now I can have it whenever I want.  Stan, I put on my evaluation that I might not make it again due to the rye dough thing, but I'd like to change my vote.  I toasted two pieces  yesterday for breakfast and my son just about fell on the floor when I told him that, no, neither piece was for him or his father, all for me, me, me.  :)  "Mom - TWO pieces of toast?  You NEVER eat that much!"


Next up, Seven Sister babka rolls.  Can't wait.  Loving this thread and all the comments.


Constance

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I made another Kornbroyt today to take with me on vacation. For this bake, I decreased the caraway seeds by 20% (personal taste) and docked the loaf, to see if I would get less bursting. I also used a thicker cornstarch glaze, because I prefer a shinier loaf than I got with the one recommended.



Well, I still got some bursting at the juncture of the side and bottom of the loaf - two small areas 180º apart. I'm not sure how much of the decrease can be credited to the docking. In any event, I'm happy with the result. I think my family will be too.


David

davidg618's picture
davidg618

I also used a thicker glaze, for the same reason, on my test loaf. I'm baking a couple loaves of this bread in six weeks as 'thank you' bread for folks putting us up as we travel north for a couple of weeks. I think it will be well received.


David G 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I think this is a good choice for traveling. It should keep fresh (and improve in flavor) for a few days.


David

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake


I'm not really sure what Horseshoes are supposed to look like, but probably not like these. I think they deserve a more genteel name..Almond Twists or Almond Commas  LOL! Slightly sweet, faintly almond and would be wonderful with your coffee or tea.


Betty


 


 

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I don't know what they "are supposed to look like" either, but yours sure look good. They sound like something I'd like, from your description.


David

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

I made Mild Deli Rye for this weeks recipe test and it turned out very nice.  This 4 weeks in group A has been a kick and I am looking forward to the next 2 categories.



Sorry, the crumb shot is a bit out of focus.



Dwayne

davidg618's picture
davidg618

Mild or Light Deli Rye is my most favorite rye bread. Your's look fantastic.


David G

Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

David,


Thanks, I did not put caraway in as I could not find it in our spices so maybe next time.  The texture and flavor were very nice.  I think I associate Rye with Caraway too much.  Sometime I'll delve into rye breads more.


Dwayne

davidg618's picture
davidg618

I baked them twice, in serial, learning a lot from the first baking.


The exposed crumb is from the first baking. The crumb is more cake-like, than traditional cinnamon rolls or sticky buns, but that might be due to a technical mistake I made mixing the dough.


Flavor-wise I can't add much to David's comments, except to say this recipe is layers on layers of flavor. 


David G

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

Picture perfect!


It looks like you got much more expansion of the rolls than I did. I really think the yeast made a big difference.


Were the rolls expanded during proofing, or did the merging occur with oven spring?


David

davidg618's picture
davidg618

but, subjectively, more occurred from oven spring than final proofing.


David G


P.S. I'm a bit slow understanding "merging". The rounds were barely touching when I put them in the oven

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Horseshoe cookies are a much BIGGER hit with the family than Plavnik - go figure - what is this world coming to. 


 



 


Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Your's look a whole lot better than mine!!!!

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Paddycake,


Thanks - you are kind, yours are really beautiful and your presentation makes them irresistable.  Well, if "speed of consumption" is any indicator mine were a smash - 36 cookies disappeared very quickly - my wife, her friend, neighbors and even me too.  It is hard to go wrong with sugar, eggs, almonds and "cake" crumbs - oh, I left one recipient out, the manager at my local grocery store who provided me with two 5-inch cake layers for crumbs on the house (he got three cookies for his kindness).  I am sure these cookies will be baked again pretty soon.  Now, on to the apple cake...

alabubba's picture
alabubba


This was a fun and interesting recipe, and as I was unable to find "Almond Paste" locally, I made my own. Slivered and toasted the remainder for the top.

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'm sure made all the difference in the world! Very nice Horseshoes! I had a heck of a time shaping them, the gluten needed to rest! I probably should have let the logs rest between each stage of rolling them out.


Betty

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Alabubba,


"Now, those aren't just lunch" (inside joke) - your horseshoes are extremely nice and I am sure just as delicious!


Ben

alabubba's picture
alabubba

Thank you for your kind words, These were delicious, but I thought them overly fussy and complicated, and if I hadn't had such fine examples to go by, I am not sure how they would have came out.


 


 

jleung's picture
jleung

Here's the plain coffee ring (I shaped it differently from what the recipe suggested)


Plain coffee ring


and mohn kichelach (poppyseed cookies):


Mohn Kichelach


If anyone gets the schnecken, they take a bit more work but are definitely worth it!


- Jackie

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Group C here.... individual challah twists, are supposed to be shaped as a figure 8


 


I am having a bit of trouble - it says that the ends of the dough have to be facing up during the final rise - but then you just slide the bread into the oven, without inverting it back


 


isn't it suposed to be inverted, so that the smooth side stays up???????


 


 


 

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Well, I am not sure I got the shaping right, but they turned out pretty good, I guess I'll be able to send the report on time even after all the struggles to get the recipe


 


you can see a short slide show here, but I include one photo


 


http://picasaweb.google.com/SallyBR2007/IndividualChallahTwists#


 


rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I'll be happy if mine work out nearly as well! Still struggling to catch up after the delays and email confusion...hopefully will manage to do these before the weekend.


Anyway, always good to have some pics like yours as an example, although you've got the bar raised pretty high!


Cheers
Ross

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'm not sure I understood those directions either, but your twists look awesome to me! Are they dinner roll or sandwich size? Hard to tell..


Betty

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I got called to Scrabble while these were in the making.  We had them with real English Lemon Curd!  I'm showing them because I sprinkled them with a special sugar (hagelzucker) which helps identify them as a sweet tasting bread.  (Snow = Alps!)  They were a hit!  



and comparison photos below with the dough rope "twisted" and "straight"


Makes for two different "looks"


Mini in Austria

hansjoakim's picture
hansjoakim

Those look delicious, Mini! What a great summer time treat, especially together with lemon curd. Yum! Simply ausgezeichnet.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

NOW I understand the shaping....


 


very nice!  Great job!

rossnroller's picture
rossnroller

I say 'my take' because I couldn't for the life of me decipher the shaping instructions (and I'm a pro copy-editor of 20 years standing!). Anyway, recalling Mini's reference to Hamelman I consulted 'Bread' on braiding and went with his figure 8s. As can be seen from the pics, the rise took out a lot of the 8s, but no matter - they looked sorta cute, if flawed (you know what they say about mothers and their babies...well, suspect it's the same with dough dads!).


Dwayne's picture
Dwayne

This was my first time making Danish and I think that these turned out pretty well despite the many mistakes that I made.  I will make this again!



This one is for Me!



Dwayne

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Funny. Mine looked exactly like those. And I mean exactly.


I could not believe how delicious they were.


My camera broke, so I am not able to post pics.

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

you are enjoying the danish but it looks like ether


you are not closing them tight enough or under proofing them which will cause them to open during baking


i will be making some this today and tomorow so i wiss take pics of the whole procdure from mixing to baked and will post them so please dont reply so i can edit this later

mrfrost's picture
mrfrost

Did you forget?

nbicomputers's picture
nbicomputers

and as a result i never got a chance but i will do it this weekend

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

I'd love one! Better you are enjoying them than me. The pounds look better on you :)


Betty


 


 

mdt's picture
mdt

Did anyone in Group C get their 2nd recipe for the Bread & Rolls portion?


How did folks do with shaping the Kaiser rolls? I thought the video was a big help and by the end of the dozen I had gotten the hang of it.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

VIdeo????? Kaiser rolls?  I got no video - and my recipe (I AM in group C) was Challah twists, which, in retrospect do shape like Kaiser rolls....


 


I am slightly confused now....

mdt's picture
mdt

My first recipe for the bread section was Kaiser rolls and they sent out a link to a YouTube video. I am not sure how the Challah twists are to be shaped, but here is the link for the Kaiser rolls,http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lX9vAUb9y7I&feature=related.


Not sure what the confusion is about as I am guessing that different folks are getting different recipes within the various groups.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

OH, now I understand.... I thought everyone was baking the same stuff in the same group


 


that explains it...


 


Thanks!

mdt's picture
mdt

Did you receive your 2nd recipe yet? I have heard nothing and it is almost time for the 3rd one.

SallyBR's picture
SallyBR

Yes, it was individual challah twists, and I sent the report about them back already  - the photos are somewhere up in this huge thread

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Ok, a cake recipe so easy even a bread baker can make it.  Baked the Apple Cake this afternoon and once it was cooled I gave some to two different neighbors who have agreed to be NYBaker Cookbook EATERS for the remainder of the testing period - boy it is nice to have friends like that :-).  Here are a couple of photos


 



 



 



 


Looking forward to seeing what Stan and Norm have in store for this week.


Ben

Paddyscake's picture
Paddyscake

Your take of the cake looks great. What size pan did you use? I thought it called for a 9" tube or 13x9. That looks more like a 9x9? I ended up using a bundt pan, so I lost the effect of the apples on the top.  I bet this would be good used as the cake part of a strawberry shortcake since it is not overly sweet. Boy, I love adding the calories!


Luckily, most of this went home with my daughter, son-in-law and grand-daughter.


 


Betty

BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Betty,


It is an optical illusion - I used a 9X13 as instructed.  I would have had too much batter and apples for anything smaller.  I apologize for the photo quality - these photos are the result of a blind man who loves to bake using a Logitech PC camera intended for Skype use because his lovely wife went to visit her Mom and took our real camera.  All this does not change the calories in this desert one bit.


Ben

berryblondeboys's picture
berryblondeboys

Is this baker european? I'm seeing LOTS of things I see at Ethnic bakeries and from when we go to my husband's country, Croatia (influenced by Hungary, Austria as well as Turkey)

cherylmathew's picture
cherylmathew

This is the first time I've been able to post a comment. This thread has become so long that it take a long time to download, and most times contents are missing. Back to the point I made the apple cake in a bundt pan. It was lovely. It was ready slightly before the required time, maybe 5 minutes or so. My camera has been lent to a friend thus using my cell camera, results of which are not that good, but here goes;


 




BakerBen's picture
BakerBen

Cheryl,


Wow, very pretty apple cake - really nice photos of the apple chunks.  This cake really smelled nice when baking - I am sure it will become a family favorite at my home.


I agree on this thread becoming TOO LONG - We should start a new one since we are only at the HALF WAY point of the testing.  I am sure many people would appreciate that effort.


Ben - LAST POST TO THIS THREAD HOPEFULLY


I took the liberty - hope it is OK with all - to create a new thread under GEAR > BOOKS


named NYBakers/Norm's Book Recipe Tests - CONTINUATION #1 the link from here is:


http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/18619/nybakersnorm039s-book-recipe-tests-continuation-1


I also put the first post in the new thread with a link back to the thread.


Ben

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I am so glad to see this thread - I was wondering how all the rest of the test bakers are doing. I don't have time to read all the comments now as I'm headed out of town shortly but will definitely come back when I'm home on Sunday and go through them one by one.

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

I'm not sure which group I'm in - I think it's group C but Poppy Horns were my week 5 recipe. I've also competed the challah twists which I will post when I'm back from my trip. The poppy horn dough was wonderul to work with. I had the powedered malt on hand for making bagels and so added it to the recipe. The flavor and texture are wonderful and we will defininely be making these again!

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Not sure why that photo posted twice but I will leave well enough alone =)...

weavershouse's picture
weavershouse

I've been on a quest to find a recipe for Poppy Horns for a long time. You did a beautiful job with yours, how I wish I had the recipe...NOW :0)...but I know I have to wait till the book comes out.


Great job Trish!


weavershouse

Trishinomaha's picture
Trishinomaha

Thanks! was really pleased with how these turned out - it was the first time I had made anything like this. I will be making these again.

Urchina's picture
Urchina


 


These cookies put my pathetic piping skills and equipment (Ziploc bag with the tip cut off) through their paces. Wildly uneven cookie sizes and really poor piping skills do not do these cookies justice. They are delicious, though -- don't let their kindergarten looks fool you. 


However, the flavor of the cookie is not assertive enough to overcome poor jam, so I'd definitely use a really outstanding jam or filling for these. 


Oh, and skip the Nutella as filling. Overly sweet without enough flavor. I used homemade apricot and wow, they're great, delicate and light. 


 


 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Yum!  Do you deliver?

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