The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

All-Purpose VS Whole Wheat flour for Starter VS Bread Dough Affect Tanginess!

chueh's picture
chueh

All-Purpose VS Whole Wheat flour for Starter VS Bread Dough Affect Tanginess!

Due to both my husband and my blood sugar, we eat bread made with at least 50% whole wheat. Most of time, I baked 100% whole wheat, before I changed my starter's flour.

My WW starter seemed healthy, doubling in size between 4-5 hours @ 78 degree.  I noticed that when I added about 50% bread flour to bread dough, it was rising very slowly ( I understood that WW has more micro-nutrients, so it makes dough rising faster).  YET, it rose SLOWLY.  

Q1.  Is it normal to add 50% bread flour to bread dough, eve with 100% WW starter, to drop the rising power so much???

 

The tanginess to me was still strong.  Thus, a week ago, I changed my starter with only 100% all-purpose flour.  I changed actually twice back and forth between 100% all-purpose to 100%WW starter.  The starter took a beating for the change for both times, even though it had the experience for the change once already......  

Q2.  Is it normal for starter to be so stubborn?????

Q3.  Because my bread consists of WW much more than bread flour, is it actually better to ONLY have 100% WW starter, especially in my condition (My starter is not happy with all-purpose).

 

Q4.  My bread from 100% all-purpose flour did not turn my bread to be less sour.  That's different from what I read and learn from all bakers on the internet.  Is it because my starter isn't as happy as before, or is it just because the dough rises SLOWER now, even though I am still baking 100% WW dough (not counting the starter)???

 

Thanks

 

 

clevins's picture
clevins

As for the sourness, that's because of more lactic acid bacteria than yeast I believe. What I do to alleviate that are: 

  • Feed at peak, don't let it subside after peak to feed. 
  • make a stiffer (less hydrated) starter. 

 

chueh's picture
chueh

Thank you.  I read and heard the same.  I did try stiff starter, yet it did not change anything.  What my experiences told me is feed much more often, as you said, at peak (One time, I had to keep feeding starter for bread and other breakfast items, as well as snacks), the sourness was almost none.  However, I was exhausted keeping the time and feeding !!!!!!

I guess that's the downside about sourdough, not able to get exactly what I want unless compromise freedom and time.....  

clevins's picture
clevins

First, keep the stiffer starter for several feedings, as it changed gradually. Second, once you have the tanginess where you want it, refrigerate the starter. You don't need to keep it at room temp (and thus feed it 1-2x per day) unless you're baking throughout the week. This is especially helpful when the ambient temps are very warm as everything happens faster then.

chueh's picture
chueh

Thank you clevins.

I read and heard more about using stiff starter for less sour bread.  I understand the reasons why (I'm not repeating them here, for those of you who use stiff starter know better than me).  Conversely, I also read and hear using LIQUID starter for less sour bread.  The main reason is that lactic acid is an-oxygenic while acetic is oxygenic.

That makes sense to me too.  Both theories for stiff and liquid starters for less sour bread all make sense!!!! And I have done both.  To me, it doesn't make much difference.....  So I guess every individual baker has so many different variables and conditions, which all contribute to the sourness of their bread.....  There is no black or white or strict guideline out there... 

Our Crumb's picture
Our Crumb

We also try to keep our carbs complex and our breads untangy.  I bake a 60% ww miche every week -- except recently, not wanting to introduce any more heat into the house than that with which the world outside is already blanketing us daily -- with only microvariations unworthy of posting here more frequently than once/year. The bread's crumb is soft and honeycombed, crust thin and overall flavor fabulous, not sour at all.

Our starter is refreshed weekly and maintained on 40% whole grain.  Both starter and miche dough are 80% hydration.  Formula and process are given here.  We don't include porridge all that often anymore.  We've found that abundant steam during the first 20 min of baking is very important for flavor development as well as the usual benefits for oven spring and crust development.

Happy Baking,

Tom

chueh's picture
chueh

Wow..... your bread looks great and the recipe sounds great.  I'll definitely try it out

Thank you