August 23, 2021 - 1:02pm
Need Help with Hollow Crumb
I am experimenting with Babka that is baked in a closed vessel. The circular spirals has lots of voids in them.
Any ideas for a solution?
By the way, if anyone is interested HERE is the LINK for the bread mold. It is well built and every loaf so far has baked up beautifully. My only wish is that it would have a larger circumference. The mold measures ~12 x 3 inches.
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Could this have some useful tips?
https://www.kingarthurbaking.com/blog/2020/11/12/5-ways-to-reduce-the-gap-in-cinnamon-swirl-bread
That article looks like exactly what I need.
Too bad I just rolled up my last test dough. I will re-bake this very soon and the ideas from King Arthur will be used…
That KA Cinnamon Swirl looks like a great filling for Babka. BTW - a Babka CB will start soon. I hope you choose to participate.
Excellent, hope it helps!
I'll definitely participate! Thank you for the warning :)
Hi, Danny.
That is a very interesting "pan." I have never seen a babka pan like that, or have I seen a babka that was baked like that. Disclaimer: I don't get out much. I will check out the K.A. tips also.
now? Interesting logs.
How about cuting them into inch thicknesses, skewer them, lay flat on a frozen sheet pan and fill with softened ice cream and freeze solid. Or how about applesauce or apple pie filling and ice cream.
I can see cut up apples, nuked to cook, spooned into the hollows alternately with vanilla ice cream and a few caramelized nuts.
Or fill with custard and rum soaked raisins baking a second time to set the custard. Or how about filling with cheese cake filling. Or just pull apart and dry out.
You really got to me when you wrote, “cheese cake filling / cream cheese”…
Ice Cream also sounds great to me. I’ll send your recommendations to the neighbor when the loaf is brought over. The last loaf will be baked in a few minutes, but I fear the same results. Didn’t get a chance to use the KA ideas yet.
There were two changes made after the first bake.
These slices will be frozen, then bagged to be eaten at a later time. Babka freezes very well.
These results are better than the first, but far from perfect. An extra spiral would be best, IMO.
Next time the suggestions from King Arthur will be implemented.
The fantastic thing about Babka is even the failures taste outstanding. :-)
An update with a new thought -
Maybe twisting the rolled up dough log like a typical babka. The twist may tighten the spirals and at the same time reduce the voids in my unconventional attempt at molded babka.
This log did fill in better but I think the problem lies with closing in the layers into a sealed in loaf (where is the steam to go?) and layering with a filling that has a lot of fat content preventing the layers from sticking together. Maybe you have to dock the loaf while rising to see how the dough is actually rising and let it proof longer. Maybe dock before baking. Most babka have layers twisted that could allow built up gasses to escape the loaf.
I'm all for nut fillings with chocolate but nutella isn't one of my favourites. The last few years they reduced the chocolate and increased palm oil and sugar. Just the other day I made my own filling using cocoa and applesauce. Chocolate sprinkles also stay put between layers.
I just had the image of a self docking round pan but afraid one might have difficulty releasing the loaf from the pan if the spikes were too long. :)
Perhaps this?
https://www.lindt.com.au/lindt-hazelnut-spread-200g
While I can't say that it necessarily has more cocoa, this is what I currently buy for my partner. More hazelnuts than oil in a hazelnut spread? Outrageous!
The cocoa content may still be a bit low but then it is supposed to be like Nutella and I have always thought that the key thing about Nutella is that it is a milky nut spread - a kind of chocolate flavoured hazelnut cream.
Either way, this apparently passes muster in my house.
(Not sure if they're available out your way, though.)
d.
and score before twisting too! ..for the esthetics... :)
Hi Dan,
One of the solutions is to add a bit of egg white to nutella, or egg washing the dough surface. Another is to twist the roll or to make a braid as is normally done in chocolate babka.
I would also think about jamming more dough into that tube pan, if there is so much empty or hollow space after baking.
Have you tried the same babka recipe with nutella spread baked free form as a roll or in a regular baking pan to see if you can control this separation of layers? I think that the tube pan contributes to the problem somehow.
When there is less nutella and thicker dough layers, the dough expands better and fills the tube more completely. This is common in free form babkas as well: clearly seen, less separation
Thinner layers and more nutella always contribute to the separation of layers even when there is no restriction on volume, but due to twisting or braiding thick individual slices do not unroll or desintegrate after slicing that babka.
I have had success baking Babka free form. You are correct, the enclosed form (which is unconventional) is problematic. I wanted to see if good Babka could be made in the bread mold. The mold is new and I am still learning.
It seems that more dough and also rolling it out a little thicker works better. Thanks for your reply.
This Friday a new Community Bake (CB) featuring Babka will be posted to the forum. I hope you and many others choose to participate. It is a fun event and the posted experiences of the participants are a great source of knowledge.
OK, Dan, that's a great initiative : )
I might as well participate with our Canadian babka. It's ultra rich, richer than panettone and requires 100g of fresh yeast per 1 kg flour (!!!). I will try it with osmotolerant yeast, to reduce the amount of yeast.
m.
Canadian babka, now you have my attention, I hope you share this recipe Mariana as I’ve never heard of Canadian babka.
Benny
Hi Benny,
Well, it's from the textbook for Canadian bakers published by Baking Association of Canada/Association canadienne de la boulangerie, so I called it Canadian : )
http://chipsbooks.com/probkmn4.htm
https://www.worldcat.org/title/professional-bakers-manual/oclc/46809772
It's formula is
100 flour
40 butter
27 sugar
30 eggs (weight)
5 dry milk
40 water
1.5 salt
10 compressed yeast
fruit, dry or macerated, is optional
sponge and dough method. Use only half or 1/3 of all yeast in the sponge. Butter is added in stages, after about half the mixing time has elapsed.
Bulk fermentation 1 hr at 29C. Shaping and filling as in coffee cakes, with almond, fruit and /or chocolate fillings before being shaped into a twist and turned into forms.
The twist is when you first make a roll then make a long cut (slit) in the middle of the roll while leaving the ends of the roll whole, uncut, then twist.
Twisting can be done in two ways, the simple twist, like so:
or by flipping the end through the opening from underneath, several times.
It may have a streusel topping.
Proof, egg wash, top with streusel, and bake at 190-195C/375-380F. After baking, cool on racks as soon as the goods can be handled to minimize sweating. You may dust it with sugar when cool.
Ah very unique shaping, I have yet to see that shaping being used for babka Mariana, very nice. Thanks for sharing that with us. I'll keep my eyes out for that book, but $100 is a lot to pay, but such a rare book might be worth it.
Benny
We make this once in awhile, after you roll the dough up you cut it in half and make a simple braid. I think it makes a better presentation as the filling is exposed.
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Gerhard, your Babka is classic and absolutely gorgeous! I hope to post your Babkas in the upcoming Community Bake. We can all learn something from you…
Do you have images of the crumb?
Danny
The filling I would like to try is a sweet poppyseed paste but I don’t know of anyplace that sells it in small quantities. There is a bakery in Toronto (kind of a dive filled with interesting characters and good food) that I go to for breakfast when in Toronto called Bagel World that makes it with poppyseed.
Gerhard you could make the poppyseed paste couldn’t you. I’ve never had it but there are many recipes on the net such as this one from Natashaskitchen.com https://natashaskitchen.com/how-to-make-poppy-seed-filling/
myself, I guess I always saw it coming out of a #10 tin. Thanks for the suggestion and it looks easy enough to make.
I recently saw they were selling it in a Polish shop, perhaps check them out around you? Poppy seed filling is popular over there. In addition to Benny's link, I shared a recipe that I got from my grandma in my blog, which I think she got from an old Jewish cook book, maybe it would be helpful.
https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/66330/grandmas-poppy-seed-roll-sourdough
Do remember to crack the shells of the poppy seeds before cooking so the seeds can soften. It is only a matter of running them quickly thru a coffee grinder. Otherwise the texture can be very sandy.
Some poppy seed is sold already cracked or milled (with a short shelf life) so take your magnifying glass with you shopping. :)
Now my mind is really full of ideas!
We may lack a good baker in my area (and lockdown means I can't really go walkabout for one) but we do have a good Polish delicatessan:
poppy_filling_001.JPG
And, for Mini, perhaps (being in Europe,) you have access to this:
lindt_001.JPG
lindt_002.JPG
Back to babka . . .
I have never baked a babka or a brioche before (sweet and/or enriched breads aren't really my thing) but am interested in the community bake because, well, why not? I think I will need to call on the assitance of my mixer for this one and it's not super amazing with small quantities so I should imagine I'll end up making the 'standard' double-loaf quantity that seemingly every recipe specifies.
So, to the question:
Is it better to assemble and bake both loaves in one hit (simultaneously or sequentially) and then freeze one or is it just as viable to simply freeze the extra dough ball, perhaps flattened a little into a zip-lock bag?
I would likely prefer the latter as it would allow us to asses how we felt about the bread and the filling and see if we want to make another babka or use the dough for a straight brioche or similar.
Thanks all!
Sorry
freezing the finished product rather than the dough to be baked later. I just find after freezing dough yeast action is just not great.
Freezer space is a little tight and my long-awaited new fridge is still at the warehouse, peding relaation of lockdown. But I think we might just be able to manage.
Excellent point about the yeast - I wasn't really thinking! All my experience with enriched doughs is biscuits and cookies, which tends to freeze quite well so in my mind what I was seeing what, really, a rich, buttery shortbread dough awaiting cutting and baking.
Thanks again.
d.
Turns out that I do not like poppy seed filling.
I might, if I made it myself, but something about the flavour doesn't work for me - I think it's the peel and the slight marzipan-like notes I am getting throughout
I suspect that's just peculiar to the pre-prepared, canned filling but the lady in the store said she nearly never makes her own anymore and just uses the cans for everything so I suppose it's just a specific mix that you either like or don't and presumaly has it's place - just not in my house.
No problem - can't go wrong with chocolate.
Has a poppy filling for a yeasted dough (400g flour) : 200g ground poppy seed,125 ml whole milk, 100g sugar, lemon zest, and some cinnamon is suggested and brought to a boil and allowed to cool. 70g washed and drained raisins are folded in while cooling. Baking temp for the roll is 190°C
Fresh made with fresh lemon zest is so good! The same goes for prune fillings, fresh made is the best. I bet it is the raisins that have dominated the canned filling that might be the "yuck" factor. I just finished the last piece of apple strudel. I made two, one apple w/ raisin (watch out not to get too many) and apple w/ ground cherry (crunchy seeds.) The raisin taste tends to increase rapidly from day to day. I'm not afraid to reduce the amount of raisins in a recipe.
Gerhard,
In the US, Solo Foods (Sokol & Co.) makes a passable canned poppy seed paste that my Slovak mother used (with additions) to make poppy seed rolls for holidays. I don't know if it's available in Canada.
I would like to try as a babka. Lots of fillings are available here.
I often bake only one loaf and half a two loaf recipe.
I plan to post the CB this afternoon.
Question -
I am working up the yeast. Do you know if IDY can be used in place of Osmotolerant yeast in case some bakers don’t keep the specialty stuff on hand?