can you OVER stretch & fold?
I've made about a dozen loaves of sourdough now and am still having a great deal of difficulty with loose, floppy dough. It's nearly impossible to shape and I can't get any real tension on the surface. I've read everything I can find on the subject, I've poured over this site as well as Full-Proof Baking and The Perfect Loaf and viewed countless you-tube videos, but haven't found the answer. My most successful loaves (pretty good actually) used the method from Full-Proof Baking and a slightly modified recipe.: 100% hydration levain...15 g starter, 30 g of water and flour (a 50% bread flour, 25% whole wheat, 25% rye mix). The dough is 35 g whole wheat, 35 g rye, 255 g bread flour and 253 g water . But just as I thought I'd got the problems licked and was on my way, my next three attempts had dough that was a floppy mess . The only difference was bread flour from a different source, though still 13% protein.
I do a lamination and 4-5 rounds of coil folds . Last time I actually tried two laminations. There's a point in the coil folds that it looks like it's getting some good structure, but after a rest, it's a puddle. And it never seems to develop enough structure to get decent shaping and surface tension. (And yes, i've watched what seems like ALL the recommended videos and tried lots of technigues....no improvement. I'm pretty sure it's not over fermentation, it's not the levain (nice and healthy and consistently growing). So I've been wondering if I just need to really work this dough a lot more to get the structure. But I haven't been able to find anything that says unequivocally to do this and i'm afraid it might backfire.