August 5, 2015 - 8:29am
San Francisco Sourdough (video)
This is a new little documentary on San Francisco sourdough.
Our Sourdough quest takes us to the San Fransisco Bay area to talk about the traditional way of using sourdough as a starter.
Discover the history behind Sourdough making in SF, meet Michel Suas, co-founder & president of SFBI (San Fransisco Baking Institute), find what lies behind Acme bread company with the interview of Steven Sullivan, Explore the world of Semifreddi's & push the door of "Tartines Bakery" where sourdough bread is used as main ingredient in the menus with Chad Robertson!
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SFSD of old was made with more high gluten / bread flour, was baked darker and was more sour than today's variety. Tartine, while still not very sour at least tries to bake darker even though many Fresh Lofians have complained their bread was burnt at Tartine. I like half bread and half AP myself, along with 15- 20% whole grains, more sour and a bold blistered crust . I think it is the best tasting variety of SFSD.
Happy baking
That was a really interesting video. Thanks very much to KathyF for sharing the link :-)
I do find it interesting that Chad says that he has been told that his bold bake was reminiscent of the SFSD of the 40's and 50's. My memories of SFSD are mostly around the late 60's and on. I don't remember the crust being really dark. In the mid-70's I moved away from California for several years and the one thing I missed and had to have whenever I came to visit was sourdough bread.
was the SFSD gold standard and it was not a bold bake and many others like Parisan and Columbo were also not dark then. Boudin, the only one to survive the late 70's of the old group of bakeries still bakes bold like Chad does and it is the only one that does an old time sour SFSD bread...... and iit s still affordable at $3.99 too. But since it is the 40's and 50's style it doesn't score vary high on the list of SFSD bakeries today.
My favorite is Josey Baker's The Mil; since he does bakery milled whole grain SD breads mostly and is quite the character too!
happy baking
The only bakery making anything close to old-school SFSD today is Acme, and it is significantly milder in flavor than the old-school brands.
Semifreddi's, Boudin, Josey Baker, Sour Flour and others aren't even close. Tartine isn't close, either, sorry. If someone has been telling Chad his bread is reminiscent of the old-school sourdoughs he is being seriously misled. Many of them are very good breads in their own right, but to equate Tartine or any of them with Larraburu, Parisian, Colombo, etc. is just wrong.
I've had all of these breads recently and, like KathyF, grew up with the old-school brands in the '60s. The sourdough I make in my kitchen is much closer to the old-school sourdoughs than anything I've found in S.F., but it took a great deal of effort, trial and error for me to get there.
Boudin dates back a long time but their bread is awful. I detect a strong vinegar flavor. There has been speculation that they add vinegar to make their bread sour enough to fool the tourists on Fisherman's Wharf.
It's a shame the video perpetuates the myth of "local" microbiota.
of the 50's and 50's. which were darker than the late 60's and early 70's. They were also more sour all the way though the late 1970's.
This is the 2nd time you have said Boudin bread is awful and that it is rumored that they put vinegar in their bread to fool the tourists. There bread is baked dark like Tartine. There is absolutely no basis for this claim of yours since i have never seen it or heard it before you came trolling by
Boudin is the only bakery that makes their bread old school using pate fermente and this alone likely accounts for their bread being more sour than the run of the mill SFSD of modern times. They have been the only bakery to make it since the gold rush days which alone says more then your absurd claims, All the others. including the ones you mention, were bought out by Interstate Bakeries of Wonder Bread fame (who has gone into bankruptcy itself twice since then) as they collapsed into financial hard times or bankruptcy. Boudin's bread certainly isn't awful..... just different than the rest with much higher quantity baked - just not to your liking it seems.
But I am sending your repeated claim off to Boudin just to see if they want to set you straight themselves.
Can't remember seeing any of your fine SFSD breads posted here either either. Did I miss all of them?
Boudin's breads sure look good enough to eat.... here is there web site https://www.boudinbakery.com/index.cfm
Happy Bakinjg
ran out of dough I guess
(sorry)
KathyF: you are correct; the crust of the old-school sourdoughs wasn't particularly dark unless you specifically sought out a dark-bake loaf. If a bakery's crusts are so dark that people think it's burnt, as was stated in the video, that's significantly darker than even the dark-bake loaves of days gone by.
My guess is, if Boudin's didn't appeal to a lot of people, they wouldn't sell bread like they do. Especially as I don't think they sell in supermarkets. Growing up just north of San Francisco, I only remember the bread we bought at the store like Colombo, Parisian, Bordenave and Lombardi's. Larraburu was totally off of my radar as I never heard of them until I read about them here. I was first aware of Boudin's in the '80s as my father (who worked in S.F.) had started buying their bread about then.
I do like Boudin's and would regularly buy their bread when I lived in S.F. Nowadays I find I like SemiFreddies, which I can get at my local market. I haven't tried Acme yet, or Tartine. I recently tried a loaf of La Brea cheese loaf and it was good, but not outstanding. I'm not sure, but since they are based in L.A. and I don't think they have a bakery up here, I suspect that their bread is sent up here par-baked. The bread that has impressed me lately is The Village Bakery in Santa Rosa. It's a true sourdough and their bread has a nice tang and an open crumb.
Boudin markets to tourists. They have a satellite bakery at Fisherman's Wharf and they sell in airports as well as having a chain of small coffee shops scattered around. I don't remember ever seeing Boudin in a supermarket or grocery store.
Larraburu closed in 1976. Acme is available in all of the area supermarkets; it's really worth a try. Tartine is not available in markets; you have to go to the bakery.
I've had La Brea sourdough and found it very lacking in flavor compared to the San Francisco breads.
Looks like they're doing a whole series on sourdough.
Here's the link to their Altamura sourdough video. And there's a Kosmas sourdough video too.
Right, I'd better go tell Abe he can see Altamura in the making.
Oh, and that carousel oven in Acme Bread is so cool. I am very jealous.
I am watching the Altamura one and it makes me want to experiment using durum flour. These videos seem to be very informative.
We where in San Francisco last month for three days and visited Boudin, The Mill and Tartine while there. I have to say that our lunch at Tartine was the best of the three but Boudin was good just what we had Tartine was more unique. I had the chowder in the bread bowl at Boudin and finished all of the bread which I wouldn't have done if I did not like it. Before catching the ferry back to Oakland we bought some bread at ACME and cold cuts from Boccalone Salumeria to enjoy as an evening snack back in our room, it was really good as well. The catering to tourists claim is true but they do it in a good way as they put their whole production on display where you can watch them bake while you eat your meal. Any of them would have me for a regular where it not for the 4,000 km separating us.
I know three days makes me no expert on the San Francisco baking scene but I have to say it's head and shoulders above most places I have visited where a "real" bakery is more than likely Panera or one of it's imitators.
Gerhard
It's true that Boudin's caters to tourists, but it certainly doesn't appeal to them only. I lived in SF for 20 years and I have to say that for myself and my friends there, Boudin's was a treat. We would make the effort to go to their bakery on 10th Avenue to pick up some fresh baked bread.
KathyF: How long ago did you live in S.F.? I'm wondering if they changed the way they make it since you last lived there.
Do you recall ever seeing Boudin on a supermarket shelf? I don't. The only other place I've seen it for sale outside of their own coffee shops was at SFO.
The locals I know who still live in the area buy their bread at grocery stores/supermarkets, and that excludes Boudin (they prefer Acme).
I moved from San Francisco six years ago. I now live about 30 miles north of San Francisco. I don't believe they have changed how they make their bread. Tastes the same to me.
Nope. Boudin's does not sell their bread in supermarkets. The breads available where I live are SemiFreddies, Grace, La Brea and The Village Bakery. I did see Acme at a store in Mill Valley recently. Wish I had bought it because the one I did get from La Brea was okay, but not really impressive. Haven't seen Acme at the stores in my town though.
I would have to say that my favorite right now from the grocery store is The Village Bakery.
Tomorrow I am going to Wild Flour Bread in Freestone (near Sebastopol). I have heard really good things about their bread. I've only been there once before a few years ago and unfortunately, I was on a low carb diet! So I'm really looking forward to trying some of their bread now.
That's where I live KathyF! Unfortunately I'm away for a couple of months... back in the fall
KathyF: Please share your impressions with us!
I will!
I blogged about my visit to Wild Flour Bread if you're interested.
Very nice blog entry, KathyF, and nice pictures too! Good to hear that their sourdough is nice and sour.
Sounds like it's worth a trip to Freestone.
Acme has a sourdough and an Italian bread. Their sourdough is recommended.
Ho hum ....
<rant>
I, for one, imprinted on the SF SD made by Parisian in the 1950's and 60's. To me, that was the "real" San Francisco Sourdough. It had a pretty light, golden, crunchy/chewy crust and pronounced sourness but, as I recall, a good proportion of lactic acid-type sour, not just acetic acid. I can't recall whether I ever tasted Larraburu's bread. I regret not having a memory of it, because so many who grew up eating Larraburu's bread swear it was the best, the "real" San Francisco Sourdough.
I have never liked Boudin's bread at all. It is generally so sour one cannot taste the bread. I recognize others really like it. To some, it's the realest because it's the oldest. I don't buy that argument, but I won't argue with anyone's preference for Boudin.
I've had many really good sourdough breads from the Bay Area in recent years and more that were decent but not great. The very best I have had, the one that is closest to my personal ideal San Francisco-style Sourdough, was eaten at Tadich Grill earlier this Summer. Tadich Grill is the oldest restaurant in the City, dating to Gold Rush days. The bread at Tadich has a dark, very crunchy crust and a white, chewy, sweet and sour crumb. Honestly, it is way better than the Parisian bread I remember. Fabulous, really.
Tadich's bread is custom-baked for them alone .... by Boudin. Yup. You can't buy it direct from Boudin. They bake it only for Tadich Grill. It is baked darker than any of Boudin's other breads. It must be fermented differently too. It has much more lactic acid presence and less acetic acid. Yet, it is quite assertively sour.
Now, Tadich Grill is 160 years old. I have never heard anyone say "It's not the same as it used to be." I would like to believe the bread I had there also has not changed. If that is true, I nominate it as "The Real San Francisco Sourdough Bread," the benchmark for traditional San Francisco Sourdough.
As a footnote: I am sorry that even Chad Robertson has to validate his truly phenomenally delicious bread in terms of any other, even the old San Francisco Sourdoughs. There is not just one ideal bread in the world, or even in San Francisco.
</rant>
Happy baking! (and eating)
David
Excellent post, David. Very eye-opening, thank you.
I've never had the bread at Tadich Grill but I know it is a custom dark bake by Boudin. From your description it sounds like a true old-school SFSD, clearly not the same product Boudin sells to tourists at Fisherman's Wharf. It's a shame Boudin's "Tadich bake" isn't available in local stores; not even their "tourist bake" is available in area grocery stores and supermarkets but must be purchased at their own shops or at the airport.
I'm like you but in reverse. We were a Larraburu family. I didn't have Parisian until after Larraburu closed in 1976 and never got to do a side-by-side comparison. My recollection is that the five major brands studied by the USDA in 1969: Larraburu, Parisian, Colombo, Toscana and Baroni (your tax dollars at work) were all very similar, if one could even tell them apart. As you point out, they had an assertive lactic-acid sourness, not vinegary or like acetic acid, so don't feel deprived if you never had Larraburu. They were all very close in flavor, texture and appearance. Today's Acme sourdough (not their Italian) which is readily available in local stores has that same lactic-acid sourness but substantially milder.
Apparently Chad feels it's important for him to equate his bread with the old-school breads. I've had his bread as well as the old-school ones and the comparison just doesn't hold up. It strikes me as disingenuous at the very least and self-promoting in no small measure. It's disingenuous because he's never had the old-school bread and is only going by what he claims "people tell" him.
Some on-line research reveals that Boudin took over the Tadich account from Parisian when the latter closed in 2005. I would have to do a great deal of digging but it's a definite possibility that Parisian took over the Tadich account in 1976 when Larraburu went under.
One really has to go to San Francisco and sample the wares firsthand rather than going by the secondhand information one reads on the Internet.
including the new ones from Tartine or Forkish and others, I'm pretty sure that no one person can get SFSD bread better than the many bakers here on the The Fresh Loaf who have tried their hand at it
For crust it doesn't get better than Syd's version of Josh's Super Sour here
Josh's Super Sour SFSDOr David Snyder's Version 4 of his SFSD which has the best crumb and 2nd best flavor and crust which makes his the best overall and closest to the late 60's and early 70's SFSD
My San Francisco Sourdough Quest, Take 4And Lucy's new wave, sprouted and best tasting (i'm biased of course) version for a new style SFSD
Sprouted Sourdough White Bread - A New Style SFSDIf Lucy could get the right mix of these 3, all in one SFSD bread..... I will have died and gone to heaven :-)
Happy SFSD baking
"Tadich Grill is 160 years old. I have never heard anyone say "It's not the same as it used to be." I would like to believe the bread I had there also has not changed. If that is true, I nominate it as "The Real San Francisco Sourdough Bread," the benchmark for traditional San Francisco Sourdough."
Your post inspired me to visit Tadich Grill some time back specifically to sample their sourdough.
My impression is that it is artificially soured. The bread I had was sour but totally lacking in the lactic-acid flavor which is characteristic of old-school SFSD's such as Parisian, Larraburu, Colombo or Toscana, so no "real" SFSD at Tadich. A sourdough properly made with a real culture and long proofing times would have that lactic-acid tanginess.
Colombo and Toscana were actually made at a big baking facility in Oakland.
Try some Acme sourdough if you want to discover that lactic acid tanginess; however, Acme is quite a bit milder than Larraburu et al. were.