February 5, 2014 - 4:49pm
The SD recipe with the most fibre?
Could I ask you to give me a link to the SD recipe that is as close to light and airy as a good BF SD, yet has the most fibre and beneficial ingredients you can think of? Searching using Sourdough and fibre kinda sucks...;-]
FWIW, I have a rye starter already, but I'm open to turning some of it into something else.
Russ
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As I understand things barley then rye flours are at or near the top of the fiber list. Try adding those to something you like or some of the smart folks will be along shortly to give you more options.
Flours that include more of the fibre part of the plant. Fibre is not known for being light. Like asking for the lightweight lead suit. Check the back of the flour and ingredients for fibre. Also try searching: High fibre ingredients. or ask the site search How to add fiber to my bread?
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/12016/there-way-increasing-fiber-count-homemade-bread
"Like asking for the lightweight lead suit."
Mini, now that is funny!
I understand that research on a lead balloon design continues.
I've made whole wheat sourdough with oatmeal added and got a very good result.
I am dreaming of something like this too. In my case, it would absolutely have to be a sourdough that contains oat bran (for its cholesterol-lowering properties). Somebody in my household desperately needs that. And if I can find a recipe and a method that result in a light and airy crumb, my partner will eat it too. I will no longer have to bake two sorts of bread each week. Finding such a sourdough has become an obsession! The Grail!
Here's where I'm at in my search. I hope it will help you in yours. I understand that in order for the sourdough to remain somewhat light, use of flours other than regular bread flour or all purpose flour in the loaf should hover around 20%. Here's Dan Lepard on this issue: "Cooked, soaked whole grains add a moist heartiness to any bread recipe. You can add up to 20 per cent cooked grains to the total flour weight of any bread recipe without needing to alter the other ingredients or quantities. To add more grains, you will need to tweak the recipe as the dough might need more leavening or a change to the water content." [The Handmade Loaf, p. 80]
I learnt that the amount of starter used seems to be important. For example, in her dissertation on Bioprocessing to improve oat bread quality, researcher Laura Flander noted : “The optimal sourdough conditions for enhanced crumb texture and flavour of the bread were achieved by a small addition of wheat sourdough (10 g/100 g dough) which had been fermented at 40 °C for 20 hours.”
I also learnt that two enzymes work towards creating lightness of crumb: laccase (LAC) and xylanase (XYL). Again Flander: “Use of LAC and XYL was most effective in improving the texture of oat-wheat bread.” Indeed research carried out on the effects of those two enzymes on dough rheology is most interesting. See for example here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0733521005001177 and here http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0260877406006376
Now those two enzymes are present in wheat bran, but there is an optimal amount of wheat bran that create lightness of crumb, less than that amount or more and the dough ends up being dense.
Bottom line, as I understand things: sourdough can easily accommodate addition of fibres in the dough but if one is looking for lightness of crumb, there are specific ingredients to look for as well as optimal amounts to use.
I'm still working at it.
You can also mix up dough with only a 50/50 combo whole grain and bread flours to keep it fairly light, and before the final rise shape and roll the loaves in any combination you like of seeds/oats. It's amazing how much fiber you can add that way. Of course, the smaller the loaves you prep, the higher the ratio of total surface area to volume, and the more fiber you'd pick up. So this is great for buns or rolls. I'm partial to a mix of sesame and flax. Best flavor if you brush the loaves with a lightly salted egg wash. Or mist loaves with slightly salted water before rolling in the seeds, and grease pans with sesame oil.
of the major grains too, Beans are very high in fiber as are other whole grains. Ezekiel Bread has t=about the highest fiber and lowest GI of any bread I know, bake and like. Here is my take on one, but yours doesn't have to be as elaborate or crazy as my apprentices version
http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/33645/ezekiels-chacon
Thanks for the many suggestions.
MiniOven, as always, such a comprehensive replay, that thread is monster and chock full of so many ideas, thanks!
MostlySD, take a breath...;-]...you'll soon be going for whatever degrees Mini has...;-]...my situation is not severe, and I just want to start the journey. Getting into the microbiology is not yet my thing. DA has been doing that to me in some respects, as has Mini, and while I know I need to learn some of this stuff...sheesh, its just so much! But thanks for the great references, you're definitely right there's a lot in there that's good.
DA, you are a mad man!! OMG, that bean bread...how does someone come up with any sorta idea of what that combination is going to taste like, before you start sprouting them all? Mind blowing. I've spent a lot of today just trying to find sprouted whole wheat flour (with no luck for me up here in mid-Ontario, Shiloh Farms wants $40 to ship me a 5lb bag).
FWIW, I've embarked on something based on what I had in the house. A caibatta made out of a rye levain, with 365g BF and 60g of milled flaxseed (worried that was too much) w/300g water. I'm letting that autolyse for 2 days or so, hoping it will soften the flaxseed.
Russ
Hi, this thread makes me revisit a german recipe I have for a "Haferflockenbrot" (Oatmeal bread). It is a SD
with added yeast( like many german recipes). I baked this a couple of times about 2 years ago. I remember a very good oaty taste, not too dense but a heavy loaf. I also remember I had to play with the hydration some. As I see in my notes, I added some more water than the recipe asks for. But for sure you get a lot of good fiber from all that oat meal.
SD:
85gr BF or AP
85gr. water
9gr culture
let ripen for 16 hours @ room temp
soaker:
300gr. rolled oats
600gr. boiling water
pour water over oats and let sit for 16hours
final dough:
all the SD
all the soaker
475gr. BForAP (I used AP, closer to European flour)
120gr rye flour
200gr. water (I used some more)
21gr salt
5gr instant yeast
1Tsp Molasses (original Backmalz)
mix all ingredients till the dough comes together, bulk ferment 75Min.
divide in 3pc@650gr, round and let rest another 20min.
final shape
use a glaze of milk and egg and roll in oats
preheat oven to 465F and bake at this temp for30min, 10 min with steam, then 10 min @375F.
As I said I will revisit and let you know because I remember ,it was kinda a tricky dough.
Barbara
PS I think I will use whole spelt this time instead of rye
has about half it's weight in fibre.
I add about 50g and 4x that amount in water or 200g to my basic rye loaf. Chia will absorb more water but that's my go for hydration when baking with added chia. Wonderful seeds! Lots of trace minerals and good stuff.
I'm still on the learn! I want to learn Italian so I can research Art Archives. and... I want to learn how to restore fifteenth century paintings. Big bucket here.
Sorry Muskie! I couldn't tell from your original post what sort of info you were seeking. Yes, that sort of thing do tend to put people off more than anything ... unless one is in a lab environment, I would guess. Comment noted. Cheers!
Gotta start somewhere, so I had milled flaxseed in house, and a rye starter (100% hydration).
Results:
Like my funny spiral? I cut it, put the loaf in the oven, and after 10 minutes it had nearly disappeared, so I cut it again...haha.
Not airy, a result of my not letting the yeast develop long enough.
So, a fairly tight crumb, but lighter than many a "high fiber" loaf I've eaten. A very nice chewy texture, and you don't feel the flax on your tongue at all. The crust is the least crunchiest I have made so far, a little crispy, but not as much as I like. Guess this is where steam comes in.
What I find hardest to describe is the taste. Sweet, as if I'd put sugar in there. Not sickly sweet, just sweet like you might say an orange is sweet. As if molasses was in there. Sour, the most sour bread I have made, and it could be more sour to my taste, but this will do if its all I ever manage to achieve. Finally, DA's "complexity" again. I really feel like I am eating something I've never tasted before, and I like it. I had it with a little marg, but I can't wait to try it with some strong mustard and corned beef and sauerkraut...;-] The density of the crumb is going to make such sandwiches wonderful, toasted of course.
Nutritional Info (my best guess):
So, pretty good all-in-all, despite the lack of rise. I had intended to retard the whole thing after it had risen 85% of original volume and, well, just plain forgot...;-]
Russ
with your more sour starter and levain. some thoughts.
You need t bake non enriched breads at at least 450 F to get them to spring properly and open the crumb.
You don't want to proof dough in the counter to 85% proof and then refrigerate it for 12 hours.. When the dough proofs to 85% you want to bake it. To improve the flavor, you want to shape the dough and put it in the basket then bag it and refrigerate it for 12 hours to let it proof from 0 to 85% in the fridge.
If you don't chop flax, the seeds are so hard, they will just pass through your system undigested and you lose all that nutrition and omega 3. I chop them to a coarse meal. so I can still see them in the crumb. The 60 g of flax really popped in your crumb and I wouldn't change the amount,
You are getting there Russ. A couple of more bakes and you will be amazed how good the bread get.
Well done
I knew what you meant about the proofing to 85%, I just wrote it wrong, either way, I forgot the retard so...;-]
I used milled flaxseed, as I mentioned, so what you see has its nutrients available to me. I mixed the 60g into the dough that I autolysed, so it was in there for 12 hours and I feel it got hydrated without a pre-soak. I thought about adding whole flaxseed to the crust for looks, but I'm working on shaping and scoring first (and getting only slight better, so I've decided to get better at dough texture first...;-])