The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Feeding and Discard

Craig's picture
Craig

Feeding and Discard

Hi folks. I have been feeding my starter now for 7 days. It seems to be doing well, and in fact the pancakes I made this morning with some discard were fluffy and tasty. Which brings me to my question. I have now three jars of discard in the fridge, and I hate throwing anything away, but I'm quickly running out of space and collecting to much discard. When I feed my started I pull out 113 grams of starter and add water and flour in the same ratio. I then pull the discard out and store it. Can I just leave the discard in the crock and add the newly fed starter back in on top of that? Or is that going to mess something up? Thanks.

barryvabeach's picture
barryvabeach

Craig,  I assume you are feeding 1:1:1  -  1 part existing starter, 1 part water, 1 part flour  ( all by weight ).  I suggest you cut way back on the amounts you add, so you will have less to discard.  I often discard all but 7 grams of starter, add 7 grams of water, 7 grams of flour, which gives me 21 grams.  Then when I want to bake,  i discard less and build up a larger amount of starter.   Another way to look at it ,  is that if you are doing your final refresh before you bake, and your recipe calls for 200 grams of starter,  on your last refresh,  use 75 grams of starter, 75 of flour, 75 of water, than will give 225 grams of starter -  pull out 10 to 15 grams to save for the next bake, and use the remaining for your loaf.   If you instead keep 200 grams of starter, add 200 water, 200 flour, then you will have 600, and if you keep all 600, you will need to add 600 water 600 flour, and pretty soon it will take over your whole house. 

Craig's picture
Craig

Thanks, that's good advice. I tend to be pretty literal when it comes to recipes and such, and so when the directions say 113 grams each that's what I use. It didn't occur to me to use less or more depending on my needs. Still trying to figure this all out. 

Also, do I understand correctly that I can use the discard I have in the fridge to make new starter? If so, that would be a way to use what I have for baking and making more starter.

clevins's picture
clevins

And... it's discard. You can use it for some stuff - see https://www.theperfectloaf.com/collections/sourdough-starter-discard-recipes/ for example - but Barry is right, you don't need that much starter. I don't know that I'd go as small as he does without a backup but you only need perhaps 50g of starter around. 

Also, once you have a starter you like you might want to dry some so you have a backup too.

 

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

I agree with Barry and clevins.  My standard starter refresh is 20g starter : 20g water : 20g flour.  I then take a portion of this mother culture to build a levain for my bakes.

Once your starter is established and strong, you can start refrigerating and not have to worry about the daily discard.

Craig's picture
Craig

So let me see if I have this correctly.

1. I make a starter and it gets ripe. I feed the starter twice daily by taking a portion of the starter and adding the same amount of water and flour by weight to keep the starter going.

2. I have discard which starter out life as ripe starter. I can either put this in the fridge to use in some things, or... and here's where my confusion comes in, I can take a portion or the whole of the discard and make a levain to use in breadmaking. (and looking up levain just now I see that I am taking that portion of the starter that would be discard, and adding the same amount by weight of water and flour, letting that ferment a short time, and using it right away to make... something, ostensibly bread?)

So this is why I get kinda confused about the whole "discard" thing. The discard contains the same wild yeast the starter does because that's where it came from. Good so far? But one does not make new starter out of discard but only uses it in things like pancakes/waffles, crumpets, or banana nut bread? 

Sorry if these questions sound stupid, it's just my ignorance, which you guys are really helping with, and I very much appreciate that. We learn by doing, but also asking questions. Hopefully the right ones. 

 

clevins's picture
clevins

1. I make a starter and it gets ripe. I feed the starter twice daily by taking a portion of the starter and adding the same amount of water and flour by weight to keep the starter going.

Yes. However, after the starter relibaly doubles (or more) between feedings, you don't need to feed it twice a day. You can refrigerate it until you're ready to bake next time. If you bake several times per week, feeding it daily is probablly easy, but if you're like me, a once per week baker, that's a lot of feeding when you're not about to use it.

2. I have discard which starter out life as ripe starter. I can either put this in the fridge to use in some things, or... and here's where my confusion comes in, I can take a portion or the whole of the discard and make a levain to use in breadmaking. (and looking up levain just now I see that I am taking that portion of the starter that would be discard, and adding the same amount by weight of water and flour, letting that ferment a short time, and using it right away to make... something, ostensibly bread?)

Not quite. Let's say you have starter that you fed. It's time to feed it again. You remove some part of it and put it in a bowl to which you add water and flour. That part is the starter. The part left behind is the discard. 

But let's say you want to also start a dough. In this case you're taking your ready to feed starter and making TWO things. Make the starter as above. But you can also take some of what you WOULD discard and use it to make a levain which is just  "the starter I'm about to use".

So. If you do both (make a starter that  you carry forward and levain to use in a dough you're making, what about the discard? Read on...

So this is why I get kinda confused about the whole "discard" thing. The discard contains the same wild yeast the starter does because that's where it came from. Good so far? But one does not make new starter out of discard but only uses it in things like pancakes/waffles, crumpets, or banana nut bread? 

The difference is that the discard is NOT fed. If you don't have a use for it, you literally discard it. Some people add it to a compost pile. But you can also toss it in the fridge, again without feeding it. It will last for days and become more sour over time. At some point, it will not be good (might have mold etc). But it will last at least a week in the fridge. 

Sorry if these questions sound stupid, it's just my ignorance, which you guys are really helping with, and I very much appreciate that. We learn by doing, but also asking questions. Hopefully the right ones. 

Nope, not stupid at all. Gotta ask to figure things out. 

clevins's picture
clevins

That comment was long enough but here's what I do as a 1x per week baker: 

Make the starter as above. After feeding, let it sit for an hour or so at room temp so the beasties can get going a bit. Refrigerate. You want the yeast to have some food but at cold temps, they'll eat more slowly so you won't need to feed them every day. They can go a while (at least a week) like this. 

The day before I want to bake, pull the starter out that morning. Feed it, leave at room/warm temp (in the 70s if you can). REpeat that night. 

The next morning, I split it... some to be the ongoing starter which I feed, let sit out for a bit then toss in the fridge. The other to be the levain which I feed at the same time, but keep in a warm place so it grows. After a few hours this usually is well on the way so I'll start my dough. If I feed the levain at 8am I'll start the dough at noon.

 

NOTE: This isn't a best way or anything. It's just my way. There are folks on here who do a very stiff starter which can last a lot longer in the fridge and other techniques. This is just what works for me. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Craig, Welcome to TFL.

I concur that there is no "one way."  And that makes it confusing for a raw beginner.

These diagrams may help convey the overall picture.  

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/68585/methods-and-rationale-sourdough-starter-maintenance-and-elaboration

(Ignore the "2% weight loss" part. That's rather advanced.)

Craig's picture
Craig

Let me just say you guys rock. This is probably the most informative and helpful forum I have ever been on (and that stems way back to Usenet). I am starting new loaves this morning but I'm going to start a separate thread for that as it will progress through the process I'm following today. Thanks again for all the help and insight.