The Fresh Loaf

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2 roasted rye malts: Chocolate, and Red Rye Crystal.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

2 roasted rye malts: Chocolate, and Red Rye Crystal.

With all the talk of roasted rye malts in the recent Rye Community Bake, I had to try some.

Red rye crystal seems to be used in a lot of rye formulas. And cocoa powder is called for in some, too -- so I think the chocolate roasted one may fit somewhere.

To be clear -- chocolate is not added to the rye, but rather, the rye is roasted until it turns chocolate-y in flavor.

I haven't baked with them yet, but I have made "herbal tea" with them. Two teaspoons of the whole grains (not ground or crushed) boiled in a sauce pan with 1 liter of water for at least 15 minutes. Simmering longer makes the "tea" darker and stronger flavored. I pour it through a tea strainer into my mug,  then sweeten to taste. (If you let it boil/simmer/steep long enough, the grains sink and you can pour off the "tea" without a strainer.)

After the tea has been boiled long enough, you can then let it simmer or steep to develop darker color and stronger flavor.

These were purchased from a brewing supply store. The roasted grains are NOT "ready to eat."  I was told by a malter (I think it was Briess) that merely "steeping" in hot water, as you would with regular tea, is not enough to make the tea safe to consume.

The malter did not want to specify a boiling time, but my belief is that the water must be boiled, with the grains in the water, for at least 10 minutes in order to make them safe to consume.

Anyway, it usually takes me 15 minutes of boiling/simmering of the grains to get the water to the flavor I like.

These are the ones I bought:
https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/weyermann-chocolate-rye/specialty-grains

https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/simpsons-red-rye-crystal-malt/specialty-grains

Chocolate on the left, red crystal on the right:

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I've also made "tea" with 3 roasted wheat malts:

For a coffee flavor: https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/briess-midnight-wheat-malt/specialty-grains

For a chocolate flavor: https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/weyermann-chocolate-wheat/specialty-grains

For a caramel flavor: https://shop.greatfermentations.com/product/weyermann-caramel-wheat/specialty-grains

alcophile's picture
alcophile

How did you find the malt teas? I've been curious to try substituting the chocolate rye malt for cocoa in bread recipes that specify cocoa for color. Is the chcocolate rye any more bitter than cocoa?

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I've never baked bread with cocoa, so I can't compare the chocolate rye malt to cocoa.  

But in terms of tea, the chocolate rye malt needs more sugar than the chocolate wheat malt.  The chocolate rye malt needs more sugar than the Midnight (coffee) wheat malt too.

So, to me, the only reason to use the dark roasted rye malts over the dark roasted wheat malts for rye bread would be only to remain a purist.

The wheat malts also cost less:

Weyermann Chocolate rye: $2.89/lb.
Weyermann Chocolate wheat: $2.39/lb.
Briess Midnght (coffee) wheat: $2.29/lb.

 --

That Briess Midnight (coffee) wheat is a close-enough substitute for coffee for me. And so much cheaper. 2 tsp boiled then simmered long enough yields 4 cups of beverage.  I'd boil it in 1/2 liter of water, pour off my first cup, let the remains steep, it would turn really dark, add another 1/2 liter, pour off a cup, then microwave my mug to bring it up to temp.  The grains would not be spent until I had 4 cups.  Though some of the water did boil off, so maybe it was 4 6-oz cups.

alcophile's picture
alcophile

There has been lively debate (see here) concerning the nature of rye malts in German rye breads. The consensus from German vendors, German bread blogs, and knowledgeable TFL members is that the "red rye" malt (Roggenmalz dunkel) used in German breads is fermented rye malt, not the red (crystal) rye brewing malt that was sold by Stanley Ginsberg's NYBakers and used in his recipes. I guess a purist would need to use the fermented rye malt and not the crystal rye malt.

Unfortunately, that malt is very hard to find in the USA. Eastern European markets might sell it (as solod) and there is one vendor in Brooklyn that imports it. But much of it is produced in Russia.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I've been following those posts/discussions.

I've purchased 25 lbs of raw whole rye berries, but I'm not quite ready yet to make the jump to malt and ferment them.

That Borodinsky Supreme loaf that frequently shows in the TFL side-bar (or at the bottom, on mobile devices) caught my interest, and got me thinking down that line.

If the "crystal" rye malt is a good-enough shortcut for Stan, I think I'll explore that avenue before attempting my own malting/fermenting. Though it's likely I will get into malting/fermenting some rye before long.

And now, I see this "FLAS" thing you guys are doing with purchasing whole-berry dry pre-malted diastatic grain and then fermenting them anaerobically. Woo.  A lot to wrap my head around. I'm not sure yet if I want to invest in vacuum stuff and temperature control stuff. I got too much stuff in my small apt with tiny kitchen as is.

I may check a nearby Russian store to see if they have solod.

Abe's picture
Abe

From diastatic rye malt berries. Pale rye malt I think has been sprouted and is still diastatic. To make solod from they need to be rehydrated by soaking them, drained and fermented. After which they can be dried and heat treated. It takes the work out of sprouting them. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Thanks.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The distinguish 1 test dough from another, put 3g chocolate malt in one of the doughs. The resulting dough will be noticeably darker. There seems to be no impact on the baking of the dough, with the exception of a darker color used for identification.

Some of the lighter colored malts are diastatic. The darker one, not.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Good idea.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

One more note:

The one time I tried adding the roasted wheats to dough for color, adding just the ground grains to the dough did not release the color -- I ended up with only black flecks.  

I take that to mean I  need to scald the ground grains, or use  the darkened boil-water in the dough.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I ground the malt myself. It did colr the dough and also left some small dark flakes. No need to do anything else in my case.

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I probably didn't grind it fine enough.

alcophile's picture
alcophile

I powdered some crystal barley malt (120° L) with a blade coffee grinder and sifted out the bigger flecks with a mesh tea strainer. I used the powder at 2% with 13% crystal wheat pieces in a white whole wheat bread last year and got a uniform brown crumb with dark brown pieces of the wheat malt.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy
metropical's picture
metropical

I've been using chocolate malt, rye berries & wheat berries in multigrain for some time.

I use 2 tbsp choco and a tbsp each of rye & wheat into a cup of boiling water.  Simmer on low about 30 mins.  Nice flavor and a little color.