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Sourdough bread is flat - please help

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Sourdough bread is flat - please help

Hi TFL team please help

I managed to learn a tip from a bakery, he mentioned to keep the starter without a lid for some time and then cover it.

It just worked great and the rye starter was rising and bubbly.  But when i went to make a rye bread, mixed the rye flour with some AP flour, again it rose well but i could not bake it the same day. 

So i kept the dough in the fridge

Next day the dough had sunken and i kneaded the dough again and hoped it would rise, but no luck even after i baked the bread.

I love rye bread, and found some bread that uses only SD and rye flour. Love to try making it.

I must say i will just stick to making dinner rolls/buns as they need less rising time.

Any grain flour rolls recipes?

Also, when i make a batter of lentils which i soak for 7-9 hours and then grind it into a batter, (recipe i received  from a friend) the next day it rises very well. But this batter is used for steaming purposes or pancake. No SD added!

Is it possible to use the same principle and soak whole grains and get a nice rise and bake next day by adding some sourdough and flour?

Will try this website for some millet/ragi rolls with SD starter. I had these rolls while i was volunteering overseas.

Thank you very much for reading my post and am grateful to this website for helping me in my search!

Abe's picture
Abe

Rye breads tend to use a big percentage of preferment and don't do well with refrigeration. From the description it sounds like the dough was too far gone. Over fermented!

Far better, should you find yourself in that situation again, would be to split the dough in two and use each half as a preferment. Mix in enough flour to make a loaf then go straight into a final proof. Then you'll have two well risen loaves. 

Ming's picture
Ming

I don't use rye flour and sourdough yeast (not yet) but I use 50/50 WW and bread flours and commercial yeast for my pizza dough, and I usually refrigerate my dough balls for up to 7 days and on day 7 they would more than double in size after being warmed in room temp around 75-80 F. I put each one in a separate soft plastic container with airtight cover, and it is always fun to watch the container budged from the gas/pressure build up inside, that is actually my way to pressurize (tension?) the dough. Sorry the only relation from my response with this topic is the refrigeration part. 

happycat's picture
happycat

I suggest doing a retarded bulk fermentation (what you do after mixing all ingredients and kneading) in the fridge overnight. You might leave it out for an hour to gets things rolling for the yeast before putting in the fridge, Gives you lots of flexibility by slowing down the rye fermentation.

Rye will ferment quickly given a warm room... a cold bulk keeps things slow and controlled. Take it out when you have time to shape and proof it. It will slowly warm back up through your handling and avoid overfermenting.

Check the room temperature when preparing dough... fermentation is way faster at higher temps.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

including amounts of each flour.  Rye flour dough becomes stiff in cool temperatures, more so than wheat flours. Rye only dough does not behave the same as wheat and has a short working window.   Combining rye with wheat can give more working time.

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Truly very grateful to all for responding to my posts with suggestions - thank you very much. 

Will look for dinner rolls / buns recipes using SD, which has less rising time.

Actually when i first became a member of this site, my intention was to try to make that millet / ragi roll which i had overseas. Looked like a simple bun to have with my soup. 

But after seeing all the lovely pictures of different breads on this website, and the members spirit to help struggling folks like me, i got carried away and thought of baking breads.

Thank you all again. Glad i came across this site. Appreciate all the help! Helped me learn more about Sourdough starter.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the better.  I still haven't found a pure rye roll recipe that doesn't dry out during baking resulting in a hocky puck.

You might find this post interesting.

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/15736/mini039s-favorite-rye-ratio

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Thank you Mini oven for the link and taking time to help us with all your kind assistance with regard to rye bread. I read thru all the 4 pages of your help, and must say the picture of the bread is mouth watering. 

thank you very much i will see how to work through the ratio.

The issue is when i get the dough all mixed up it is late in the day and i cannot bake the bread so need to keep it overnight in the fridge and the result is no rise at all.

Very grateful for your help and explanation!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

or during lunch hour. The levain can refrigerate but the dough not.  There are always exceptions.

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Thank you for the tip regarding the levain can be refrigerated - it will help me very much. because my dough after refrigeration does not rise at all, i tend to add a bit more SD and some flour the next day so that this may help. In the process my bread/rolls become very sour.

Thank you Mini for all your loving support i have thrown away so much of rock hard backing a bit nervous to try a new loaf

Am going to try this as i have my rye starter bubbling

got it from this website - seems like it is doable for me - fingers crossed

https://zebbakes.com/2011/05/25/100-rye-bread/

Thank you again

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

at a quick glance.  If you don't have any molasses don't sweat it. I am beginning to wonder if much of the North American rye needs the added flavour. European ryes tend to already have this  background note without a molasses addition.  Brown sugar (15g per Tablespoon) might be a substitution (cutting it in half) but I rarely add sugar to my rye breads.  Rye dough is often referred to as "paste" for good reasons.  I havent checked the hydration of the recipe but it should be in the 80 %'s.  If you hold the dough with damp hands, it will try to thickly ooze thru your spread fingers.  Think soft meatloaf. Spooning the dough from bowl to pan is a common description. Pouring should be difficult as it shouldn't be that runny and sticks to just about everything.  Keeping a damp spatulae nearby for shaping works wonders.  

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Thank you Mini oven for you suggestions and timely help, truly very grateful - this would be a big help trying to make this bread for myself.

With appreciation and thank you

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

:)

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

Another question i may ask if alright.

As my trial and errors with the bread making is going on for some time. I was wondering if i could first steam the rolls / bread or keep them on top of a bowl of hot water to rise on a tray.

(this is what i used to do when my yogurt did not set or when i did yeast rolls with AP/wheat flour. And they would rise and then i would bake them.

they can rise with steaming and then to get the browning effect i could bake them thereafter. I have seen some youtube shows on steaming rolls. 

As for the yogurt to set in our cold temp, my friend gave me a tip and told me to put a dried Red chilly on top of the milk  - and next day it would set.

Is this possible? Please advise. - Thank you 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

sure you can steam buns done and then brown in an oven or toaster.  The surface will be sticky for a while until enough surface moisture is gone to brown.  Proofing over a bowl of hot water is a common way to raise temps. Or set dough bowl in an empty still warm dishwasher.  

I haven't tried a chili to set yogurt.  Found it. Quote from the below study:  "In general household practice, curdling is known to occur faster in the presence of red chili."  ( in milk products)

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0022030213003202

breadmaking's picture
breadmaking

truly very grateful for your explanation - thank you 

I did make the rye rolls but they were very sour and hard  

I used the chilly for making regular yogurt as mine never set.

But after going vegan i learnt this recipe from dr. Nandita Shah while i was there, i make the peanut milk and feed my milk kefir and the yogurt when i need it.

Thank you again 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VH2ZyyJITpc