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Sourdough rising too quickly

peteck18's picture
peteck18

Sourdough rising too quickly

I have mature starter that I've been using for awhile. I'm planning on baking tomorrow, so I started to prepare the starter by leaving it at room temperature and feeding it every 12 hours yesterday morning. Last night it expanded quickly, and this morning (12 hours later) it had collapsed. I fed it again, and within 3 hours it has more than doubled its size.  I need the starter to be ready tomorrow morning. I'm concerned that if this happens again, (expanding quickly and then shrinking sooner than 12 hours) the starter won't be ready when I need to bake. Can I alter the schedule to every 8 hours or so to insure that the starter is at its peak when I need it? Or would it be better to use less starter (how much? or more flour and water (how much)?  Thanks!

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

What ratio are you feeding it? I.e. how much starter with how much water and flour?

peteck18's picture
peteck18

1:1:1

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Increase the ratio and it'll take longer. Try 1:5:5, that usually works well overnight.

peteck18's picture
peteck18

So in other words That means 150:75:75 grams, correct?  just making sure I understand. I'm a newbie!

Also, should I wait the full 12 hours to refeed or should i refeed when the starter starts to collapse (I feed it 5 hours ago, and I'm not sure what'll be in the next 7 hours.

Thanks!

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

15:75:75

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

No-no, 1:5:5 is like 10 g starter, 50 g flour, 50 g water - depending on how much you need in the end, adjust all quantities accordingly.

How were you doing 1:1:1?

Ideally, you feed right at the peak. But it can wait a few hours after that without any problems. If you wait too long after feeding, and especially if it's not in the fridge then, it won't be as active.

peteck18's picture
peteck18

150 grams: 150 grams: 150 grams

peteck18's picture
peteck18

150 grams

Maria Morando's picture
Maria Morando

When I want my starter to rise through the night I feed it at a ratio of 1 to 4. It takes the starter a lot longer to eat through 4 times its own weight than to eat through less weight. Also make sure it is not in too warm a place when you set it out for the night. Do you feed your starter with 100 percent hydration?  If you add more water than that it will also allow the starter to rise a little quicker. One more thing. How are you determining when your starter has reached its peak? Are you going by increase in volume? Are you waiting to see if it is beginning to collapse? If you are just looking at the volume increase, it may be deceptive. Keep an eye on how your starter looks at the top. It may have doubled in size, but it may still have a way to go. If the top has a very slight mound and you can't see much bubble activity, and the top is a bit satin in terms of finish, it is most likely not finished rising. It may even be more than double at this point. The way I know when my starter is done rising is, I open the lid and look down inside at my starter's surface. If the top still has a satin finish, a very slight rounded surface, and almost no bubble activity showing through the surface, it is still rising. I know when it is no longer rising when the top looks like it is starting to flatten out, becomes a bit more shiny and bubbles are starting to show through the top surface. My active starter will take about 7 hours to rise at a rate of 1 to 4 when I let it sit overnight during cooler months. It is done in a little less time during the warmer months.

peteck18's picture
peteck18

So the recipe I'm using calls for 227grams. I've been feeding it 150grams of water and 150 grams of flour on 150 grams of starter. This is what it looks like right now. So I guess what you are saying is that I should start with a lot less starter for the next feeding (I'm baking tomorrow morning.

HeiHei29er's picture
HeiHei29er

Please delete

Benito's picture
Benito

The general idea is that the more food in relation to the microbes the longer it will take the microbes to finish their meal.  Starter:Water:Flour.  Think of the starter as the microbes and the flour as the food and of course they'll be thirsty so they need water while they eat : )  so the longer the period of time you want them eating and not finishing their meal the more food and water you need to give them in relation to the microbes.

So if 1:1:1 they are done in 3 hours then as Ilya suggests, assuming the same temperature for fermentation, 1:5:5 or even 1:6:6.  I find my starter if I feed it 1:6:6 and the temperature is 74*F it will have peaked and just started to fall around 8-9 hours.  I'd probably have to drop the temperature to 70-72*F with the same feeding or increase the feeding to 1:10:10.

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

1:5:5

1+5+5 = 11

227/11 = 21g (to the nearest whole number). There's the 1! Now we feed that 5x it's weight with water and flour to give you a feed of...

  • 21g starter 
  • 105g water 
  • 105g flour 

Total = 231g with a little extra. Which will allow for loss through fermentation and hugs if starter sticking to the sides. 

This should give you a 12 hour ferment give or take but don't worry about catching it perfectly. A little over will just build more flavour and it won't go kaput. 

https://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/66952/my-starter-has-become-very-strong

peteck18's picture
peteck18

Thank you!  After 9 hours my starter is beginning to contract.  In 3 hours I'll refeed using this ratio and see what happens.  I'll  probably make to starter batches to hedge my bets and see what develops.  I'm learning.

 

Again, thanks.

Uzbek's picture
Uzbek

Levain actually IS a starter but larger. And made in order not to have large amounts of starter going at all times. And collapsed starter, if it leavens the next batch, will leaven the dough as well. So go ahead and bake. Provided your starter is strong (looks like it is strong) and 25% of your dough is the starter/levain, you will see it rise fine by the 4-6 hours mark. From my experience, starter after its peak is better than starter before it peaks (because it is 100% concentrated while for unpeaked, you never know how much actual starter culture is in there).