August 8, 2020 - 6:49pm
seeking feedback
Hello everyone.
I feel like I'm starting to get some consistency in my bakes but still feel a bit challenged by a couple of things.
First, here is my newest loaf. Decent crumb. Good expansion in dutch oven. Flour was 250g bread, 150g whole wheat bread, and 100g rye. 80% hydration.
Based on these photos, how do people feel about the fermentation level? Under, over, or just right?
As for my two challenges, what might I do differently to obtain a more open crumb and a better ear?
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Why do you want a more open crumb. Looks ok to me.
I've just seen a lot of photos of what appears to be the signature "open crumb" that people seem to be aiming for (see photo below). The pockets are larger. I wanted to know what could be improved with technique that might achieve that.
Thanks for the feedback. I feel it turned out quite nicely too!
opencrumb.jpg
I think for 50% whole grain and a lot of rye the crumb isn't going to get much more open than that, but if you learn a trick let me know! The oven bloom was good so getting an ear might be helped by changing the angle of the score.
Thanks for the feedback. Maybe that's the "issue". I wasn't aware that using whole grains reduces the openness of the crumb. I have yet to try a purely white sourdough. Maybe that's worth a try just to see how it turns out differently.
As for the score angle, I've tried following the recommendations but have yet to achieve the "optimal" ear. I'll keep experimenting with that. I take it angle and depth are the two key things when scoring for an ear?
I agree with the others that the fermentation looks great, the crumb is open for the % whole grain used.
At what angle and how deep did you score. As Ilene said you might get a better ear with altered scoring.
Benny
Thanks! Good to know. I just responded to someone else that I've yet to make a white sourdough so I guess my frame of reference is limited to whole grains. Wasn't aware it affected the openness of the crumb.
What would you say is the optimal angle and depth? I tried about 45 degrees and 1/4" depth. I assume too shallow and you won't get an ear?
I like 1/2" to 3/4". it seems pretty deep, but the oven spring brings it all back up.
james
Okay. Cool. I'll experiment with going a bit deeper and see how it goes. Thanks!
For batards with good proof, ie not overproofed, I like to score between ½-1 cm deep and about 45% angle or so to the dough surface. Scoring is only part of the equation of course, you need good oven spring to get a good bloom to open up the score and spring the ear. For good oven spring you need good fermentation as well as good dough tension for which you’ll need good structure in your dough.
I mention proofing, so if you have over proofed, as my last bake was, you’ll want to score more delicately and more shallow as a deep score will result in the dough collapsing.
Benny
Thanks for the tips!!
Looks good to me. Maillard reaction = taste. The crumb looks like what I like.
Use a curved lame to get an ear.
Cheers.
thank you. I did order a lame. Curious how a curved lame affects the ear. I mean, an angled cut is an angled cut, no? Does a curved lame just make getting the right angle easier?
As others have said, 100% whole wheat and 40% of that whole rye - the crumb is fantastic. Rye is not going to produce the gluten necessary yo produce super open crumb. It is also not know for large picturesque ears.
Your improvement from THIS BREAD to your present bake is astronomical!
Where did this bread come from? It is a masterpiece.
Thank you for such nice feedback. I am happy with the improvement for sure! The previous loaf you referenced was wrong in so many ways. Bad planning altogether. But it was great to learn from and for understanding the consequences of decisions as well as recognizing what over/under-fermentation looks like. I completely over-compensated with the loaf right after that and it was definitely under-proofed. The loaf for which I asked feedback was the third one after that. The previous one was pretty good too but this one was better.
As for the photo, it was from an internet search. It’s what I consider the ideal and what I’d like to get to! It’s really beautiful, eh? Having said that, I wonder if it’s the cross section from a sourdough baguette. A finer crumb in a smaller cross-section making it look more open? Also, the roundness of the cross-section suggests it might be a smaller diametre.
I don’t think it is a baguette, but it does appear to be a relatively small loaf. If you learn to produce that Honeycomb Lacy crumb, let me be your first student :-). It is also my favorite type of crumb.
Here is a similar shot (taken from Instagram) of my favorite crumb.
So nice! I’d love to know how it was achieved. Looking at the crumb, it looks like it may have been stretched and rolled.
That photo is from Trevor Wilson's Instagram -- and, tellingly, I *think* it's ciabatta dough. Definitely no way anyone's getting that crumb with 40% rye!
Well technically, it’s 50% whole wheat with 40% of that 50% being rye.
My point stands! ;)