The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Second loaf and feedback

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead

Second loaf and feedback

Hello, I just wanted to share my second attempt at making a sourdough bread. This is a whole wheat loaf. My process was a little haphazard as my timing was not particularly controllable. There should have been sufficient fermentation time and it was proofed overnight in the fridge. 80% hydration. 50% whole wheat bread flour, 25% bread flour, 25% AP flour. Due to time, I could only do one stretch and fold in the evening so I put it in the fridge overnight. I then resumed the next day. Finally, it was proofed again overnight in the banneton. I know... that’s a lot of fridge proofing... but I just made bad decisions on when I started! LOL! 

A few of questions:

When I removed the cold dough from the banneton, it seem to go quite flat. Based in the flours used, I was surprised. What aspect in my messed up procedure might have caused this? Any idea how to get more upward volume?

I hoped for better ears. Did I not score deep enough? Was it a consequence of the flat dough?

When I cut it open, there were large holes towards the top of the bread. Lower density wasn’t actually that bad in how do you achieve a more even distribution of holes?

Any and all thoughts would be appreciated.

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead
Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead
Marble's picture
Marble

Hi Canuckkehead,

im very much a newbie too but I have totally had this happen to me too. This is what’s referred to as a “fools crumb” and is usually due to underfermentation during bulk fermentation. I posted mine below in case it helps. Searching this site you should be able to find some discussion about it too. You may not be getting enough fermentation even with a long time in the fridge due to the low temperature. 

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead

Thanks for chiming in. I had hoped the refrigeration would slow down fermentation enough that it wouldn’t be a problem. The crumb on the bottom areas weren’t dense so I suspected it was more an over fermentation.

i appreciate your thoughts.

ciabatta's picture
ciabatta

 

gluten development questionable. multiple long proofing. very high whole wheat content. 

i would say use 50/50 bread flour and whole wheat and leave out the AP. do either a long bulk ferment over night or a long cold retard in banneton. but not both.  make sure dough passes windown pan test before preshape and pop any large bubbles then.

at 50% whole wheat, you probably wont get a huge rise, but stick with a better process and you should see more even distribution of holes.

 

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead

Thank you.

Your comments suggest I’m on the right track in terms of troubleshooting my own loaf. Based on what I knew I did, I suspected an over fermentation as well as possibly too much whole wheat flour. As for gluten development, I’m confident it was sufficient although the over fermentation probably weakened it.

I have to ensure I have enough time for everything next time!

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

The coating of seeds looks real nice!

I agree with ciabatta.  Crumb photo has signs of overproofing.  and process description seems to confirm -- at least 36 hours fermentation -- overnight, day, and overnight.

remember: fermentation and acid breakdown keep going on in the refrigerator.

Benito's picture
Benito

I agree with ciabatta and Dave, that is over fermented.  Have a look at the crumb, not the large holes but the rest of the crumb, it isn’t gummy and really dense, there are reasonable sized small holes there.  The larger holes are due to the weakened gluten no longer having the strength to contain the gases and then breaking and forming large holes.  The relatively flat loaf is a sign of this as well as the stickiness of the dough.  The lack of ear is also pretty typical of the overproofed dough as again it doesn’t have enough structure to hold or form an ear or have the strength for good oven spring.  As it over ferments the dough is building up more acidity and proteolytic activity increases weakening the gluten.

Benny

Marble's picture
Marble

Interesting! I thought when you get overproofed dough you have larger bubbles throughout the dough and not just on top? Do you know what causes fools crumb due to under proofing is then?

Benito's picture
Benito

I’m not 100% sure, but I’d say the excess water still in the dough heating up, evaporating into steam collecting as it rises would be the cause of the fools crumb in underproofed dough.  Perhaps someone who knows better will respond.

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead

Yes, thank you. Knowing what I did, I suspected as much. Confirmation helps me understand and recognize my problems!

Canuckkehead's picture
Canuckkehead

Thanks for the comments. Yes, despite the big holes, I do like the appearance. Only my second loaf so hopefully the next one will be perfect!!