The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Why do I need an hour of kneading?

Guiomar's picture
Guiomar

Why do I need an hour of kneading?

Hi all, I am new to sourdough (after a lot of "cheating" with the bread machine), and I love it but for the teensy tiny detail that is exhausting me. Every recipe I find goes "10 minutes approx of kneading", but to get anything even vaguely related to a stretchy (let alone windowpane) dough it takes me like an hour and I'm exhausted. It could be the flour/water ratio, but this has happened to me with different recipes, or the flour /starter I use, but it also happened to me during the course I took while we were all use the same. I don't know if I am using a wrong technique, the descriptions are usually a but puzzling to me, but on YouTube I have seen people kneading 10 different ways so probably my rough technique should not be the cause. I am starting to think I am too weak (I am a very small human being, being a 1.5m and 43kg and not athletic). Maybe is something else?? I end up adding too much flour on the process of kneading purely because of the time I spend at it, although it doest feel like a problem. Any help would be welcomed because I am feeling defeated and ready to give up :(

Ford's picture
Ford

A ten minute knead is probably enough.  Then, put the dough in a bowl, cover and let rise until it has doubled in volume.  You then degas the dough, just a few folds, and shape into the loaf and let that rise until doubled.  You are now ready to bake the loaf..

Ford

Guiomar's picture
Guiomar

Do you mean I should not care as much about the usual tests (windowpane or be able to stretch it 70cm or whatever it is)? Because after 10 minutes of me kneading the dough is nowhere near that... 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Almost exactly a year ago some of the bakers got together to detail the simplest instructions for making a sourdough bread. The idea is to get a new baker successfully baking a good sourdough bread. After this one has been successfully baked, and the baker becomes confident they can move on to other challenges.

I recommend you consider this bread, as a loaf for learning. It makes a super nice bread...

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/56678/123-sourdough-no-knead-do-nothing-bread

Whether you choose to bake this bread or any other it would be helpful if you photographed and posted the details of your bake. With this information we can better help you.

By-the-way, the bread above requires absolutely no kneading at all. If flour and water is mixed together and given enough time it will automatically for the gluten.

Danny

Guiomar's picture
Guiomar

I will definitely give that a try. I did manage to make a sourdough, actually, a white one (my goal is full whole meal), but the problem was that I was so so tired after kneading that I don't think is something I could do it often (today I was sort of dizzy afterwards as lame as it sounds). Thanks a lot again for the help! :) 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Guio, you would probably learn quicker overall if you started with a white flour bread first. Whole wheat is more challenging. 

 

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

To knead a dough but not that much! Which makes me believe something was not right with the recipe, measurements or flour used. Maybe she'd some light on the recipe? 

Ford's picture
Ford

I don't bother with the windowpane test, just the feel.  The hand kneading seems like enough after about ten minutes, or a little more.  The bench rise, the degassing, snd the stretching during the loaf formation are most important, in my opinion.

Ford

Robyn's picture
Robyn

Personally, I would say you don't... I have been making all our bread for 20+ years and use the same method for the vast majority of the bread recipes I make;

Make a poolish (the sourdough would be the poolish) and allow the yeast to feed for about 6 hours. Place poolish and other bread ingredients into a mixer and using a dough hook on a fairly high speed, knead for 5 minutes, Rest mix for 5 minutes, then mix again for 5 minutes, then shape the loaves (put into tins) and allow to rise. Then bake.

Oh, and practice makes perfect. You will learn to recognise when things look the way they are supposed to.

Also, when I look at a bread recipe I apply; "work smarter, not harder." If the recipe calls for massive amounts of wasting my time (I do LOTS of things and bread making is just one of them, not the only one) I find a better recipe.