The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Sourdough + yeast hybrid?

IanG's picture
IanG

Sourdough + yeast hybrid?

Can you use a limited amount of sourdough starter with some regular yeast?

My experiments with sourdough have been a bit -- mixed and the results have been too strong for my taste (using 100g or 50 g of starter).

I am wondering if I can use, say, 25 g of revitalised starter together with, say, 1/4 tsp of dried yeast and ferment over 18 hours or so, to get a softer, milder but still flavoursome sourdough?

Or is mixing like this considered sacrilege? 

Are there other ways of achieving a milder flavour — and a rounded loaf?

 

 

Ilya Flyamer's picture
Ilya Flyamer

Nothing wrong with mixing yeast and sourdough, and it's up you whether you consider it sacrilege :) I've never tried adding yeast, but I think the traditional French baguette recipes actually call for a tiny addition of baker's yeast on top of the starter, so I'd say no one will accuse you of breaking some unwritten rules.

There are ways to reduce the acidity of the sourdough breads (if that's what you mean by being too strong). Varying amount of starter, and length and temperature of fermentation will give different flavour profiles, you just have to try a few times until you find your preferred conditions. Maybe more experienced bakers will give more specific advice below!

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65868/forgotten-loaf

Sourdough does not have to be tangy. Depending on how it's maintained and used within the dough can produce different results. 

Benito's picture
Benito

In many of my baguettes I’ve used hybrid levain and IDY.  I didn’t want too much contribution of the commercial yeast flavour so I kept the IDY to 0.07%.  Doc Dough here uses it as well in his baguettes up to 0.1% IDY.  It has the effect of speeding up the bulk fermentation without contributing too much flavour and since it ferments faster you won’t have as much sourdough flavour.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh

Hi Ian!

I also started experimenting with hybrid dough a short while ago and have basically settled on this as my new normal bake--I get much more consistent results and feel like I am getting the best of both worlds as far as taste, crumb and loft.  I think your long ferment/proof is likely adding to the stronger sour taste you are describing.  The bread I am baking does not taste sour and the other benefit is that except for the starter feed the night before, you can basically mix, bake and eat all on the same day!  I previously posted my process here, but have tweaked it even more since.  I am now doing a slightly shorter BF (around 4-4.5 hours) and I've adjusted my flour mix to improve flavor: 

380g bread flour / 50g AP flour / 10g rye flour / 40g spelt / 20g durum 

Otherwise, the process and recipe is the same (water and salt).  Hope this helps...let us know how you get on!

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65032/hybrid-dough-experiments

I've also started adding a pinch of organic yeast to my sourdough focaccia recipe because it seems to take the tang off of the sourdough flavor, which my family prefers.

naturaleigh's picture
naturaleigh
Benito's picture
Benito

Beautiful loaf Naturaleigh.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

And its tang is very mild. During the pandemic, I sent this bread to friends all over the country to reconnect with them. It's so delicious that all my friends' wives want to learn how to make it!

CLAS--concentrated lactic acid sourdough--is different from the traditional sourdough we are used to. It must be used with yeast to make bread, but it is more effective and more powerful. Take a moment to learn the simple process, and future rewards are enormous. If you are interested, I can show you the guideline I collected for my friends' wives to make bread with CLAS. 

Yippee

IanG's picture
IanG

Yes, I would be interested to learn about CLAS.

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Please see it here

Good luck!

Yippee

Anon2's picture
Anon2 (not verified)

Making sourdough breads with durum flour? The very nature of the flour results in a sweeter profile with no tang. If not 100% durum then at least a high percentage to lessen the sour. 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

in the dough mix?   Something like 200g instead of 50g?  More starter often results in less sour.  

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy
IanG's picture
IanG

Not overload at all, because of the way it is presented (with a summary table as well!). Really helpful guide, thank you so much.

Booda's picture
Booda

Ken Forkish in his book, FWSY, mentions that adding a small amount of IDY has been used for a hundred years by most French bakers. He uses this method in his breads at Ken's Artisan Bakery, as he likes the oven spring and open crumb, and the less sour taste that it provides. Living only about 15" away from his bakery, I can attest to the taste and quality of his breads. I would use whatever method works best for you and not worry about "sacrilege."