The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Cold loaf not browning

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

Cold loaf not browning

Pumpkin seed sourdough baked in a 450 oven with steam for 55 minutes...internal 210 degrees. If you look it is actually darker in the score marks. Bottom is golden....Any ideas as to why? Was baked 15 minutes out of the fridge after a 12 hour cold retard.

texas_loafer's picture
texas_loafer

halfway through your bake and it should brown nicely.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

Steamed the first 10 minutes.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

wet when you scored it?  Maybe with condense water on the surface?  Looking for some kind of clue....and the oven had stopped pre-heating? Was the loaf covered in the fridge?  

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

moistened to apply seeds. Temp was constant through the bake that why I checked the internal to make sure it was baked through. Yes to covered in fridge overnight.

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

What was the weight of the dough prior to baking?

Was the loaf covered with anything in the oven?

Gas or electric oven?

Was the oven preheated?

Please describe your steaming method.  was the steam tray pre heated, at what point you added water, how much water, and the temp of the water.

Have you checked  your oven thermostat against another thermometer?  

My first guess is that the oven thermostat is off, or it is a 5 pound hunk o' dough.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

prior to baking ..nothing covering loaf on a stone preheated 90 minutes. Steamed 10 minutes with self installed steamer which has worked flawlessly for 12 years+ with other bakes about 500 loaves. Gas oven....with 2 additional oven thermometers which are replaced every year. Was 450 upon insertion and removal

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

What changed, what is different,  between this bake, and the previous successful bakes?

I believe you. But, Generally, steaming doesn't work with gas ovens.  How  did you make steam work with this gas oven?

If this setup worked before in this gas oven, and nothing changed, but is not working now, then apparently something broke.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

Reasoning as well. Built in misting system controlled without opening the door. The bread is fully baked but no browning of the crust....my first ever albino loaf. No idea

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

In commercial ovens, some of them boil the water in a separate boiler before injecting the steam in the oven. If an oven injects _water_ mist, the water droplets rob heat from the hot air, and air temp comes down as water absorbs the heat and turns to steam. 

A pale loaf "usually" means a too low temp. So what could have cooled the oven?  I'm thinking maybe too much water injection (something got out of adjustment and it injected too much, or for too long), or ...

... maybe this humongous 51 oz loaf at fridge temp is the "culprit" which cooled things down, compared to smaller room-temp loaves done previously.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

Your input but I bake 3lb loaves of rye regularly with exactly the same setup and they come out of the oven mahogany colored and singing crust. If the oven cooled too much with this loaf it would have been uncooked internally after 55 minutes 

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

If the flour is in excess and the dough is steamed then the flour and steam can react to create this effect. This will also explain why the scoring does bake darker when it opens up. You can try gently brushing off the excess flour before scoring and baking.

 

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

zero flour left on the dough. It sits in the fridge covered for 12 hours...removed and sits for 15 minutes then sprayed seeded and baked

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

And it's sprayed then this could exasperate what's happening. As an experiment (it can be adjusted next time) keep the seeds on the inside only, don't spray and brush off any excess flour. Then you can compare the two bakes. 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I agree that the temp _eventually_ gets back up to cook the innards.

Yet my experience is that if a bread surface spends too much time just below the Maillard-reaction temp (the temp where browning occurs) , the crust becomes leathery, and won't brown, _even though_ the temp later gets higher.  Like when a bagel gets boiled, then baked.

Was the crust on this loaf leathery?

Were your 3 lb rye loaves baked from the fridge or from room temp?

--

Update: Just saw Abe's reply.  Sounds very plausible.

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

just not brown.  fridge covered for 12 hours...removed and sits for 15 minutes then sprayed seeded and baked

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Was the flour unmalted?  Lack of sugar can reduce browning.

Does any of  "malted barley flour" "malted wheat flour" "amylase" or "enzymes" appear in the official ingredients list of the flour? 

Some countries do not malt their wheat flour as a standard like in the US. And unmalted flour is now available in the US.

What country are you in?

--

Lets also back up a bit.  You say _rye_ loaves have browned in this setup before.  Have loaves made only with _wheat_ flour browned before in this setup?

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

As long as it's not over fermented. Over fermentation prevents browning because all the sugars are used up but this dough is not over fermented. As you say countries outside the US don't add malt (unless the flour is sold as malt flour) and there's no issue. I do think this is the cause of the dough being sprayed and it reacts with the flour left on the dough. Spraying a dough directly just causes it to gel and it reacts when baked. Only way to know for sure is to conduct an experiment and compare. 

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

The rye loaves are proofed and baked in a loaf pan, therefore no flour unlike when in a banneton, and either not sprayed at all or lacks the flour on top? 

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

is not a panned loaf and the bread shown is also free form no banneton no flour. Rye goes through the same exact steaming process.

ciabatta's picture
ciabatta

Sounds exactly like what's happening to me.  see my "Whole Oven Cloche" post.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/65008/whole-oven-cloche

same dough mix under cast iron dutch oven comes out perfectly. when i bake it under my "whole oven cloche" that is heavy aluminum. i get this ghost crust.  Also seems like there's a lot of moisture in the loaf after a full bake. like the crust is sealed and steam not coming through it.

i am thinking either the aluminum is drawing away heat and cooling the loafs too much or there is something with the way it reflects heat causing this.  do you have any aluminum or similarity in your setup?

 

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

in this set up. Dismissing the pale color the loaf was spectacular.....I am going to blame my problem for the moment on the flour purchased during the shutdown. It was a different brand then I normally use and could have certainly contributed to lack of color. With manufacturers trying to keep up with demand calculations on their side could have been off. As far as your setup....I have had success with similar setup but my top was cast aluminum and uses a baking steel slightly small than the top with steam pan below feeding what it will upwards into the cast top.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

put the seeds on after shaping the loaf, before retarding. Dont mist the loaf before going into the oven. 

fotomat1's picture
fotomat1

I will try that as well as exactly replicate what was done with different flour.