The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Crisp Bread Recipes Anyone?

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Crisp Bread Recipes Anyone?

I haven't been around for a while, but I continue to make my standard whole wheat bread recipe based on what I learned here.

Now, I need a good recipe for Crisp Bread. I can buy Wasa or Ryvita in the store, but I want to be able to make my own low-calorie Crisp Bread. 

Can anyone help?

Thank you.

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123
CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Many thanks for the help.

Extremely grateful for your thoroughness.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Many thanks Mini-Oven; most appreciated.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

The first video ... dough strikes me as too dry and seedy, second video dough looks more like something that would rise a little bit, note the various rolling pins and abundance of bench flour in the various videos.  Listing no way complete. Would like to see a recipe with scald used for full rye bread.  Third video looks 100% rye. Anyone catch the temp on the milk?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Lf7pN1bxpsw 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=66u0zKjKEbA

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=WV_h7dmzV8A

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gnnrLROz2TQ

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Thanks so much for the videos. Very instructive and I loved the kerchiefs on their heads in the 2nd and 3rd videos.:  :)

Baking Swedish Flatbread (Tunnbröd)

Baka tunnbröd på traditionellt sätt.

There is much to comment on but one of the things I found interesting was that their flat breads were not baked too hard but rather were more pliable like pancakes. Very interesting.

Well I am definitely going to give this a go at some point in the next week, but am surprised at the variety of ways that people bake them and the difference in ingredients.  So much to learn about it but the women take it all so much for granted.

They certainly do love their brick oven stoves and are experts in using them.

Thanks again.

 

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Well today I baked my Crisp Bread with this recipe:

 Ingredients

• 100 g (3½ oz) rye flour

• 100 g (3½ oz) plain (AP) flour

• 100 g (3½ fl oz) water

• 4 tbsp vegetable oil

• 2 tsp sugar

• 1½ tsp caraway seeds

• 1 tsp salt

• 1 tsp dried onion

• 1 tsp garlic powder

Instructions

1. Preheat the oven to 180°C/360°F fan oven, 200°C/400°F conventional oven.

2. Put all the dry ingredients in a bowl and mix well.

3. Add the water and vegetable oil then mix well to a soft and moist dough. Leave to rest for 5 minutes.

4. Take half the dough and roll out as thin as possible between two sheets of baking paper the same size as your baking tray.

5. Peel off the top layer of paper and trim the dough using a knife or pizza cutter.

6. Cut through the dough to make the cracker shapes and transfer the paper+dough to a baking tray.

7. Bake for 10-12 minutes. Meanwhile prepare the remaining dough.

 

8. Leave the crackers to cool then store in an airtight box.

So.....my wife liked them and could taste the caraway seeds, which surprised me.

However, I have a very long ways to go on this........I am glad I have all those years of making bread successfully, because this Crisp Bread is a serious challenge.

Anyone can bake it so it comes out hard, however, there must be a secret to baking them so they come out Crisp. Hard like a rock is not OK, and soft and soggy is not acceptable. I wonder if the folks at WASA have a special machine for baking these. Right now all I get are Rocks or Rocks with spongy inside. 

I can't figure out how to get light a Crisp. My sense is that I am dealing with a very narrow margin of error on this but I can't figure out if it is the Recipe or my baking, which takes a lot longer than what is stated.

My guess is that this will be another journey of 10 years like my bread, before I get it.

All Advice is Always Gratefully Accepted.

 

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

No levain/starter, yeast, or baking powder?  That would make them rocks.

I made something like this:

https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/sourdough-crackers-recipe

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

How about a bulk rise and leaving the dough between the parchment to rise & bake? It will fall off when baked enough.  How about baking in a fry pan like a pancake?  And upping the hydration?

That would make the rolling pin part difficult and may end up with pita bread.  I got my ideas about those two types of rolling pins.  The first one helps spread the dough out but works much like finger tips in focaccia pressing the dough together without too much degassing.  The roller creates fine gas filled pillows out of the dough.  The second roller may be doing some fine docking.  The solution to crisp bread is to bake it twice or bake and dry the bread.

did you see the stacked bread at the end ?  I will try to grab a screen shot. 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Thanks so much for(as always)your impeccable guidance.

At the risk of sounding like a dimwit would you please tell me what you mean when you say:

"The solution to crisp bread is to bake it twice or bake and dry the bread."

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with or without the door open.  Notice all the screened tables and racks in the videos?  You could cut holes in the middles and dry them on a pole stuck up in the rafters.  :)

oh and if you cool them fast in a cold room or near freezing temps, the crust will be forced to loose more moisture.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Posted at the same time ;)

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

If I hadn't re-edited to put in the link, I would have been first. ;-)

As we say over here, "great minds think alike."     

Lemme know when you're next in Indianapolis, and I'll buy you a beverage. :-)   

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the one with the ladies in red with white head scarves.... 3 liters milk, 4-5kg flour. Rye and wheat block of yeast 48g? Salt. Bulk rise.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

MiniOven, you certainly do have an astute eye. The pic you posted is very helpful.

I will definitely try hydration.

The ladies certainly do have a lot more hydration in their Crisp Bread than other people put in theirs in other videos. Also, it would appear that their bread comes out more like a "wrap" or "panini" bread than a Crisp. Would that be fair to say? The people in the end are using them in a "wrap" manner.

The WASA Bread which is what I am shooting for is more rigid and Crisp without being a brick. WASA bread is of a consistancy that I believe is harder to imitate than one might think.

Are you able to copy that characteristic?

 

 

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I feel a cold spell coming.  Brrrrr.    

Well, CB, our traditional local bakery has closed.  MIL has retired with the last day of the year and so I will be baking regularly very soon. Sorry to see the end of that family bakery.  

Wasa dough will also need something to raise it and gas cells to make a more fragile crusty bread.  I'm thinking more in the lines of dough development and cell wall structure. Starting around 83-85% hydration.  Part of the process may even include the microwave.  Keep your mind open!  

Meanwhile, I'm wrapping some cord around my pin to make groves.  Wonder if IKEA has the pins?

My IKEA purchased Knaäckebröd Råg rye crispbread contains no salt but E471 emulsifier.  Remember seeing rye breads where salt was forgotten resulting in large bubbles under the top crust?    !!!

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 

Crisp Bread is Difficult.

Yes, MiniOven,  "the end of that family bakery" has hit hard in our town as well. And together with the total absence of book stores anywhere nearby, it makes me realize I grew up in a totally different era.  

I never heard of the  "E471 emulsifier." It suggests that maybe WASA crisp bread is way too far outside my skill set to even begin to think to replicate.

I have already listed above the recipe I used. It is the Base Recipe I want to build off of in my experimentations going forward. For the record, this is the Video that goes with it. Please note how very little hydration there is. And yet to get the WASA lightness and brittleness, I will probably have to go with more hydration as suggested. Your suggestion of: "Starting around 83-85% hydration" will be my guideline.

I never realized WASA was so difficult.

Tremendously grateful for everyone's guidance, since I feel truly lost in this project. My highly successful and popular whole wheat bread seems a snap compared with this.

Ugghhh.. 

 

 

 

Yippee's picture
Yippee

Hi, CB:

I made super delicious rye crackers using recipes from Stan's book.  If you like what you see here and here, please contact Stan for his formulae. 

Yippee

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Just in case you are wondering how to cut your crisp breads

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven
CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Mini Oven,

Thank you very much for the post from Pip. Wow! It is a book unto itself and a very interesting one at that.

On the matter of my crisp bread. I will be trying it once again next week and this time with as you suggested: more hydration and some yeast. I am surprised it is so difficult.

Thanks for your kind inquiry; most appreciated.

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 

Would like to say at the beginning how grateful I am to Minie Oven for her excellent suggestions. I couldn’t do this without her.

So here I am with my second round of bakeoffs for WASA Crispbread and results are these.

My recipe has been modified from previously and is now as follows:

Ingredients

•             100 g (3½ oz) rye flour

•             100 g (3½ oz) plain (AP) flour

•             100 g (3½ fl oz) water but changed this time around to 8 oz.

•             4 tbsp vegetable oil

•             2 tsp sugar

•             1½ tsp caraway seeds

•             1 tsp salt

•             1 tsp dried onion

•             1 tsp garlic powder

·               1 tsp of yeast

·              Allowed it to set for 45 mins.

Ok so this time around I added yeast. I tried one batch with 3 tsp. of yeast and then backed off to 1 tsp. To which I added more water as noted above.

I apologize for no pictures but the results are so poor I am glad I have no camera available.

Results to date are that my first time out resulted in bricks as a result of no yeast and low hydration.

This time around the results were not bricks but more bread like as a result of the yeast. However, I am trying to achieve Crispy which is somewhere in between.

WASA Crisp Bread lists ingredients: Rye Flour, Whole Grain Rye Flour and Yeast.

My ingredients were as listed above. I use Bob's Red Mill Organic Dark Rye Flour-Whole Grain.

Right now I feel at a dead end. When I add a little yeast it becomes bread and without yeast it is a brick. Maybe I should just add ½ tsp. of yeast.

I went through this bake off carefully today but sense I have tried all that I can.

Again, great gratitude to Mini Oven and all for guidance.

I await guidance………..:)

 

 

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

I think you're going to need a "twice baked" kind of formula.

An example of which is here: https://www.kingarthurflour.com/recipes/zwieback-recipe

Bake it in a loaf, let it rest, slice it, then bake again, very slowly.

How to get there from what you're doing now is up to you.

Bon chance, amigo.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

if the bread is two high to dry out in the first bake.  Could try rolling out dough much thinner,  if you have some cording, wrap it around a spare rolling pin to create high and low lines or dents in the rolled out dough.  That might help direct the dough where to bubble.  Experiment with spacing between the cording.

Also watch the garlic, it tends to slow down yeast and you may need more yeast when using garlic mixed into the dough, I'd say twice as much as normally.   Garlic may be playing with the results.   

Have you tried baking the rolled out dough on a griddle or large frying pan first? With and without a lid.  Tucking in to a low oven to dry crisp?

Don't  be shy with pictures, they may be more helpful than you think.  :)

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

idaveindy

Thanks for the info, however, I really do want WASA crisp bread and not toast. I believe toast is fine but quite different.

Mini Oven

Many thanks for the comments; all most gratefully received and thought upon.

My wife comes back today and she may be able to photograph. Yes, I agree a pic is worth a thousand words.

Gratefully....

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

CB, Crisp bread is a form of toast.

The reason I recommend the zwieback recipe is it will teach you how to make one form of crisp bread, and how to use the double-bake method to get all the moisture out.  The fact that it is on the KA web site, means it is tried and tested.

From there, you just need to adjust ingredients to get close to the density, airy-ness (holes), and flavor of Wasa.

The Zwieback recipe has about 2.5 hours of bake time total.  

I honestly don't think you can make any crisp bread in a single bake.  You need the cooling period in between the two bakes to let moisture evaporate, or at least "migrate" from inside to the outer crust, where it can be baked off in the second round.

The first bake needs to be hot enough to get an open crumb structure, but .... that also "sets" the outer crust/skin, and locks the moisture in the inside.  If you continue to bake, you'll burn the outside before the inner moisture cooks off.

During the cooling phase, the dry outer crust will draw some moisture out from the middle, and partially rehydrates and softens.  The second bake at a lower temp,  then bakes off the moisture that the crust "took" from the inside during the cooling phase.  The lower temp of the 2nd bake is enough to cook off moisture, but not enough to overly brown the edges.

Even if you don't do the zwieback recipe, at least _study_ it and visualize in your mind what is going on.  It has a _two hour_ 2nd bake.  What temp? 200-225 F.  Why?  What is happening at that temp for two whole hours?  "Toast" is not made at 200-225 F.   It's drying off the moisture, and trying to harden the inside of the pieces without overly browning the outside.

I assume you've googled: Wasa recipe

If nothing came up, I recommend searching for: Zwieback recipe 

or: zwiebak recipe

because it is in the same ball-park, and you'll have to experiment and adjust from there.

Just think, if your experiments are successful, you might be the first person to post a Wasa knock-off recipe online.  You'll be famous.

Bon chance.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

 

idaveindy

Thanks so much for the follow up commentary; most appreciated.

My itemized comments are as follows:

I respect totally that Zwieback is: “Crunchy, ultra-light zwieback toast has been a favorite of teething babies for years.”

And that it takes: BAKE 2 hrs to 2 hrs 30 mins or according to the King Arthur website: a total of 14 hrs 20 mins. Gulp!

And yes I agree that: “If you continue to bake, you'll burn the outside before the inner moisture cooks off.” That was my experience also.

“I assume you've googled: Wasa recipe:” I have indeed.

“Just think, if your experiments are successful, you might be the first person to post a Wasa knock-off recipe online.  You'll be famous.” I think that this sentence pretty well sums up my experience to date on this project. In effect, I would probably be the “first person” ever to copy a Wasa bread.

The fact is:

-I don’t doubt that people can bake WASA Crisp Bread but I have not seen anyone to date who can. They bake other crispbreads that they like but they are not WASA Crisp Bread in quality.

-I am not a rocket scientist or brain surgeon but to bake WASA has to rank up there.

-Finally a warm and hearty offer to anyone who can actually bake WASA Crisp Bread successfully. I have not seen it done by anyone. At this point in time one has to ask if any one does have the necessary skill set. I guess it is show and tell time.

-When I set out on this journey, I had no idea it would be so challenging. I welcome the opportunity to have others show me they can pull this off.

Again, many thanks for your assistance throughout my journey on this. I have learned lots, not the least of which is that I am out of my depth on this.

If I sound less than cheerful, it is because this would appear the end of the line, unless someone out there comes up with a shining example of WASA that they did in fact bake.

Oh well.........

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

https://www.buffcoach.net/ernaehrung/vergleich/20655-25071

This ia a German comparison of two similar crisp breads of the same weight.  Protein, salt is higher in Wasa and so is the fiber and sugar. The ballaststoffe/ fiber makes the difference in calories consumed.  The listing might also give indication as to amount of ingredients in the dough.

The name of the type of bread in original language might also reveal videos and recipes not printed in an English language search.  In searching:  mjölk (I get the "ö" when holding down the "o" key and dragging to highlight the ö otherwise type oe as in mjoelk.).   mjölk translates into milk. Yikes!  Now what?

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

Wasa writes  77g whole rye is used to make 100g Wasa crisp bread.  (German Wasa site.)

 I seriously doubt that the missing 23g to make 100g is all water. The bread is dry,  1g salt perhaps and maybe 10g max water.  What is the rest 12g?  Yeast?  That's a lot of yeast.  Something is left out.

How is fiber 19g?

 

idaveindy's picture
idaveindy

Mini, looks like 6.6% water to me.  That seems reasonable for a toasted product.

(will update this after checking nutritiondata.self.com for rye composition.)

Update.

Checking https://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/cereal-grains-and-pasta/5728/2

select 100 g measure, and scroll down, left side column,   dark rye flour is 22.6% fiber.  So that gets it in the ball park.  .226 * 77 = 17.4 g

The 9 g protein per 77 g is 11.6% which seems low, but again within range.  Same with fat, in range.

Update.

Checking:  https://www.amazon.com/Wasa-Whole-Grain-Crispbread-9-2/dp/B004SIAODS/

Looking at the American nutrition label: Ingredients are just rye flour, yeast, and salt.  And I would assume water.

Based on the airy-ness of the final product, I'm assuming a lot of water and yeast.  

Just going by memory, I think the dough was docked.  I haven't eaten Wasa since I've become an amateur baker, so I never looked at it or ate it with a "baker's eye."

 

shines's picture
shines

Try searching for knäckebröd.

Bernie

Interesting photo.. look at the rolling pin.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

something I already imagined.  Cool.  The dough however looks like my meat hammer put a few dents in it.

 ...I wonder....  look at that cute wire tool off to her left.  Docker?

btw the knäckebröd råg from IKEA lists rye flour as 91%, yeast second and salt followed by emulgulator  E471 protein as 10g and salt as 1.4g fat 2.9g. Deffinately a Wasa type rye crispbread, maybe a tiny bit bitter.  Made in Finnland.  Might look under Finnish crispbread too.

Found this interesting answer to:  How is crisp bread made?

Crispbread traditionally consists of wholemeal rye flour, salt, and water. ... In the case of unleavened crispbread, bubbles are introduced into the dough mechanically. Traditionally, this was done by mixing snow or powdered ice into the dough, which then evaporated during baking. 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Once again, I thank everyone for their kind contributions to this thread. I will certainly learn much in my on going study of what has been submitted on this challenging topic.

At this point in time I find that:

1-What I see on You Tube to date are re-definitions of the word Crisp bread rather than the actual WASA Crisp Bread one can buy at the store. Or put differently they are hard crackers rather than a Crisp Bread.

 2-I also will stand aside here to wait and see if anyone out there on this Forum can actually not only bake but photograph the final successful product comparable to WASA Crisp Bread as can be bought in the store.

Thanks again to all.........

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Take a look at the Wasa site HERE and scroll through the tabs to identify which product you want to replicate. I didn't realize they had so many products and I suspect that , while being similar, they might have different requirements.for producing and handling. Some of the products list yeast and some do not-they are totally unleavened. None of them list baking powder as leavening.

So which product are you wanting to replicate?

 

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

clazar123

Many thanks for your thoughtful posting.

Now I feel like a total KLUTZ because I went to your wonderful link and can't find the recipes. Yes, I see the types of WASA choices and the listings for: Ingredients, Servings, Nutrition, Total Time. But I can't find the recipes for any of the WASA crackers listed.

As for instance, where is the detailed recipe for Multigrain WASA. I imagine if I can bake one then I can do the others but I don't see where I am to click. I am not sure how to navigate for detailed recipes.

I do find that some haven't recipes but other links do. I don't care about the toppings-please disregard toppings- but I found this: 

Thin Rye with Smashed Avocado and Toasted Chickpeas

Ingredients:

1 slice Wasa Thin Rye sprinkled with

blue poppy seeds & sea salt

2 tablespoons Avocado, smashed

1/2 teaspoon Lime Juice

1 tablespoon Chickpeas, toasted (15 pieces)

1/2 teaspoon Extra Virgin Olive Oil

To Taste Paprika

To Taste Sea Salt

To Taste Black Pepper

Directions:

PREHEAT oven to 375° F.

TOSS chickpeas in oil, sprinkle with paprika, salt, and pepper to taste.

ROAST in oven @375° F for 5-7 minutes or until crispy.

CUT avocado in half and remove the seed.

SCOOP avocado into a small bowl, add lime juice, and smash with a fork.

SPREAD smashed avocado onto Wasa Thin Rye.

TOP with roasted chickpeas.

I see no mention of what type of flour to use or other details on info for baking WASA.

Am I clicking the proper links?

Thanks again.

 

 

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

 I was linking you to the product page of the Wasa cracker/crispbread company so you could identify which product you were interested in trying to make at home. Believe it or not, the different crackers/crispbreads may require different ways to make them. They certainly have different ingredients and different textures.

So which particular Wasa product is  the one you want to try and make at home? Light rye? Multigrain? Whole grain?

I do not have a recipe for any of them but if you indicate which one you were interested in, perhaps people here on TFL would know which one to work on or advise you about.

Sorry for the confusion.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

clazar123

Thanks so much for your speedy response and suggestion.

I think that the WASA Light-Rye Crispbread would be a good one to start with. If someone could duplicate that Crispbread and photograph the results, then, that would be greatly appreciated. I find that Crispbread  is different things to different people. That is why I would like to keep to the agreed on WASA Light-Rye Crispbread as the goal to shoot for.

I have rye flour, all purpose flour, instant yeast and whole wheat flour on hand so I probably have the beginnings of what is needed.

The thing that surprises me is that I did not think this challenge would be so difficult. 

 Many thanks.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

recipes.

clazar123's picture
clazar123

I found a site that discussed whether WASA was kosher. (Can't find the link now,darn it.) Interesting read. I will look for it again. 

Apparently,Whether a food is kosher depends on ingredients, nearby food,whether it is a high holiday and the baker's religious status. WASA is generally considered kosher, ingredient-wise" . Ingredients: rye, salt and in early times it was made with powdered ice or snow. The frozen water would melt as the bread was baked and leave holes to lighten the final product. Ingenious! FOUND IT HERE!

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Well, the article of  What’s Up With Wasa Crispbread? looks reassuring since it says: "Crispbread has been eaten for about 1,500 years in Sweden and Finland."  So it is not that esoteric. Also, the picture in the header shows crispbread with the texture that I am looking to achieve.

Now all that is needed is for some brave soul to set forth and duplicate that picture. No need for photos; I will take people's word for it if they say they have done it. I just want to be able to duplicate that texture in the picture.

My local grocery store just got in a special order of 5 lbs. of rye flour for me, so once someone is able to share with me a recipe that actually works I will proceed. 

I mean if "it has been eaten for about 1,500 years in Sweden and Finland" then it can't be that difficult or esoteric. 

 

 

 

clazar123's picture
clazar123

Start by using baker's percentages so you can do a small amount of flour and get the proper ratios of other ingredients. The cracker you have identified just has 2 ingredients (probably 3 since they didn't include water)-rye and salt. Try making mixtures of various hydration and see what works for you. You can go from very thick dough to very thin (pourable) dough and see what develops.  Keep a notebook and do as many attempts as necessary to develop a recipe. Post back here with pics/writeups and people can help you develop this recipe as you go.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

In an antique shop in Iowa....

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Fantastic!

Congratulations!!!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

I showed the picture of the waffled rolling pin to my cousin.  She recognized it immediately saying her husband picked up one at a garage sale.  At first she took it to her instructor hoping it would work for another type of Swedish bread but her instructor said "No, that pin is used for rye crisp bread."  

So, now you know what you need.  I think you could make your own with a sharp fine saw, and a sharp chisel, a good pair of protective leather gloves and a load of patience.  It would cost a carpenter roughly $80 to make a new one considering the labor. You will also need some way to hold the wood while working.  Purchase a pin. Mark off 1cm squares on the pin and cut the squares lines first about 5mm deep.  Then take the chisel and make little flat topped pyramids row for row leaving a tiny 2 mm square at the top of each pyramid.  

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

10 inch roller (25cm) with 21 "squares" to a row

"The notches are designed to create holes in your dough allowing air in to prevent the dough from rising. Creating a flatbread that’s perfect for dipping or topping.".       

What!!!   ...allowing air in to prevent the dough from rising.   Maybe they mean it prevents the dough from forming one big pocket like pita dough.  They must be assuming there is plenty of gas in the dough. Hmmmm.

I was actually wondering if my 1 cm squares might be too small after looking at the finished baked bread.  Also good to notice that the notches are not spiked but flat topped as I thought they would be.  I had wondered how much wear my pin had had.  Some notches are completely worn down in places.  I bought two blank rolling pins new for $3.50 each and will have a little fun. (Wink). One will get wrapped in cord.

The Linden pin has slightly longer  1.2 cm. on the length but "squares" look 1 cm. on the round and still 0.5 cm deep.  Interesting.  I might copy it.

Thanks. :)

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

the pin with food safe mineral oil.  Letting it soak in for a few days.  

Plan on using my favourite sourdough rye ratio formula to start out testing.   

Mini's rye ratio:

  • 200g  rye flour  (fine type 960, protein 8%, fiber 7%)
  • 168g  water     (84% hydration dough)
  • 48g  peaking sourdough rye starter.   (about 100% hydration)
  • 3.2g salt.  (1.6%)

 Total dough weight approx 420g.  

----------------------------------------------------------------------- 

A smaller recipe same ratio (half of the above recipe) 

  • 100g rye flour (same as above)
  • 84g water
  • 24g  peaking ripe rye starter
  • 1.6g salt

Total dough weight approx. 210g.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

MiniOven,

Many thanks for your posting; most interesting.

Thanks especially for the recipe; most interesting.

The recipe on the WASA crispbread pkg. lists:

-Whole grain rye flour, 

(Where do I get Whole Grain rye flour?)

-Rye flour

-Yeast and Salt

I have discussed my recipe with the master bakers at King Arthur and they say that if I use oil then I should mix it with the water first before adding it to the dry mixture. They say that is critical.

I continue on in my efforts but somehow am unable to grasp how this crispbread is really made. All of my efforts are very wide of  the mark. I truly believe this is far harder than many people realize.

If you get a chance search the FreshLoaf website for other discussions on this topic. We are not the only people who have been down this road before.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

try with a basic recipe I'm familiar with and try to roll a spooned out dough in a bed of flour much like the videos using a corded rolling pin and this antique pin.  First with sourdough allowing a bulk rise and then another dough with some added yeast.  The bumps in the pin should prevent totally deflating the bulked dough yet still facilitate rolling.  Transfer to parchment paper and bake on a heated griddle in the oven.  First as 100% rye.  

The 100g flour recipe is small enough to play with easily. Tangzhong would be another dough using 5g of the rye flour with 25g of the water from the recipe.  Spices, nuts and seeds (when desired) can easily be sprinkled on the dough while the surfaces are still sticky before dusting to roll out.  

I do need to find a nice long thin bench brush, it looks very handy in the videos to flour the dough without pressing down on it too firmly.  I don't plan on being so wild with brushing flour in my own kitchen.  If I can slip outside with a large tray, I might roll out the dough where it makes less mess.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

I have no doubt your efforts will result in Total Success; in fact I would bet on it.

 

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

 

Rolling out dough went much easier than anticipated.  Bake oven could have been hotter.  Here are some cut stripes while bread is still soft but you can see there is trapped gas even in such a very thin roll out of dough.  A first bake always helps with the next one.  Keep your fingers crossed!

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Well it looks Excellent to me!

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

back into the cooling oven to dry out.  Lots of areas to improve including color, thickness (thicker) less flour on surface (more brushing off excess rye flour) and a hotter bake (greater than 170°C.). Longer bulk rise perhaps.  I was waiting on my sourdough starter and made this dough instead using instant yeast and a little lemon juice for acid.  First combined wet ingredients with yeast, salt, spices then added flour.  Need more fine bubbles inside the bulked dough.  That has to be the trick for tenderness when dried.  I did need a half teaspoon more water when mixing the 100g flour recipe so think I can up the hydration just a tiny bit.  

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Mini Oven,

Would you share with me what your recipe is at this point with instant yeast; I am not exactly clear.

However the pictures look great; congratulations.

Would you agree that this Crisp Bread is not easy; at least I don't think so.

Again thanks.

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

with instant yeast:

  • 100g rye flour (whole fine)
  • 85g water
  • 1.2 g instant yeast
  • 1.6g salt
  • 2.7g bread spice ( mixture of crushed caraway, fennel, coriander)
  • 1/2 teaspoon lemon juice

mix everything together adding the flour last. Knead with wet hands in-the-air until smooth paste.  I had a 3 hour bulk rise.  Roll out dough on well floured surface.  Transfer to parchment and bake in a hot oven.

 

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Many thanks for your speedy assistance.

I love the fact that we are baking small amounts in our trial efforts.

So I did some conversions of the measurements and would like to ask if I am correct:

·        100g=or 7/8  cup… rye flour (whole fine)

·         85g= or ¾ cup… water

·        1.2 g=or ¼ tsps. .. instant yeast

·        1.6g= or ½ tsps = ….salt

·        2.7g= or .54 tsps bread spice ( mixture of crushed caraway, fennel, coriander)

·        1/2 teaspoon lemon juice

·        Mix everything together….. adding the flour last.

·        Knead with wet hands in-the-air until smooth paste.  

·        I had a 3 hour bulk rise.  

·        Roll out dough on well floured surface.  

·        Transfer to parchment and bake in a hot oven…

 Also:

-isn't that a very small amount of yeast?

-do i bake in an oven say 375 degrees for 12-15 mins.

 Many thanks.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Mini Oven

Well I just tried your recipe and found that it doesn't work for me.

In your recipe you mention the dough having to be "a paste consistancy" which I found difficult. I believe it needs to be of a more solid mass or of a lower hydration.

I let the dough set for 3 hrs. but did not get the rise in my dough that you did although I put in 1/2 a tsp. of instant yeast.

I sense this Crisp Bread thing is difficult and that there are some parts of the recipe that I am leaving out.

The lemon taste was a nice surprise. I never tasted that in crisp bread before.

 

Mini Oven's picture
Mini Oven

and think it fermented too far.  It tended to tear too much once I got it rolled out.  I baked it in a large fry pan (English muffin style) but the crumb was more bready than porous.  I cut back on the spices to 2g.

 Really?  You could taste the lemon?  Must have powerful lemons in your neck of the jungle.  :)

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

1-Thank you very much for your pictures and sharing your journey on this it is greatly appreciated.

2-At the moment, I just don't think I have the necessary recipe to get it done. But I do keep trying.

3-Laugh at me but I actually bake 4 loaves of bread at a time. This past time I took one loaf sliced it very thinly and have allowed it to go stale. In some strange way it works for the time being.

4-How can something so simple be so difficult????? Seriously.

CountryBoy's picture
CountryBoy

Many thanks for the suggestion; looks like I will have to give it a try.