July 26, 2019 - 4:19am
HELP with Math
I am venturing into parts per million.
Lets say you want 30 parts per million. Inexpensive scale resolution is 0.01. I am thinking about dissolving 1g of AA in 100g water.
How do I proceed?
Dan
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I am venturing into parts per million.
Lets say you want 30 parts per million. Inexpensive scale resolution is 0.01. I am thinking about dissolving 1g of AA in 100g water.
How do I proceed?
Dan
I assume you are referring to ascorbic acid. Correct? 30 ppm in water or in the final dough?
Yes, I am experimenting with various amounts of AA. From what I read the amounts vary between 15-30 ppm.
I'm working on this math exercise. My eyes are rolled back in my head. Get back to you later.
in one liter of water is 1/1000. One g of that solution added to another liter of water makes 1000 x1000 or 1/ 1,000,000. One part per million. So take 30g of that last mixture for 30 parts per million. Does that make sense? Or am I way off?
That is accurate, but I was hoping to not use so much water. But it would definitely make things easy.
The reason I didn’t want to use so much water is that I plan to keep the mixture for future use, BUT, I could do as you explained and keep only a small portion of the final mix. GREAT IDEA!
Thanks, Mini.
Dan, the maximum recommended rate for ascorbic acid is 200ppm, based on flour weight. This means that for 1kg of flour, you would need 0.2g of AA.
You could weigh this with reasonable accuracy on your 0.01g res scale.
Dissolve the AA in your recipe water.
Lance
Lance, what source tells you 200 ppm? The highest I’ve seen is 30ppm.
If you have a link, I’d like to read the article. Thanks for the input...
A Google Books extract regarding the Chorleywood bread process. I have entered the search phrase ascorbic acid.
You will see levels up to 200ppm quoted. OK, it's Chorleywood, but same levels apply to other methods.
I'm not saying you have to use 200ppm, merely that you can go up to it, with no benefit above - in fact probably reduced benefit.
I have seen TFL posts where users are adding say 1/2 tspn or more which is probably 2000ppm!
The portion of the article dealing with AA is interesting. But I struggled to understand it. I think it says that oxygen during mixing is necessary to activate the AA. It also mentions that it may not be possible to overdose.
If you have time and are inclined, would you reply with a simplified synopsis of the material dealing with Ascorbic Acid? I really want to understand that information.
This article may explain a problem that I am encountering during AS experimentation.
NOTE - I have been successful using as much as 1g per kilo of flour. This article may explain why I was able to use so much.
I appreciate your help!
Danny
Sorry Dan, but I don't have time to précis all the info on AA in the book. If there is a particular point you want clarifying, I will do my best to help.
Lance
Lance, I assumed the pages in the link were consecutive, and didn’t realize they were randomly dispersed in the document. My singular intention for investigating and possibly using AA is for one formula and process that BF the dough for 16-17.5 hr @ 77-79F. I have no need for AA in any other bread dough. The process is brutal on the gluten (dough degradation) and often results in failure. The goal is to increase the dough’s ability to tolerate longer fermentation at warm temps. One could easily think, what’s the big deal between a safe 15 hr BF @ 78F and a tiny bite longer? Through much experimentation I have learned that the difference in lactic sour from 15 hr to 16 is slightly sour to moderately high sour. And the longer the BF goes past 16 hours the increase in lactic sour is exponential. The sour curve after 15.5 hr shoots straight up! 17.5 hr @ 78F is sour nirvana.
According to pages 31 & 32 I understand the article to state that oxygen is necessary for AA to convert to Dehydroascorbic, which is mandatory for dough strengthening. If this is correct, it might explain why my last 2 experiments didn’t produce the results (strong and high rising) of earlier bakes. The last 2 experiments were basically no knead doughs. I don’t remember previous bakes but it is very likely that the dough was kneaded much more.
Also in the first full paragraph on page 32, I understand that over dosing with AA will not harm the dough. And that once the oxygen is depleted the production of Dehydroascorbic ceases. Is my understanding of this correct?
Until you shared this link I had never heard of the Chorleywood Process. It seems similar to Wonder Bread in the States.
Thanks for bring this article to my attention. Please correct any misconceptions above.
Dan
Dan, it sounds like your dough development works the same way as mine does, but over a longer period, ie for me, not much rise for 3 hours or so and then starts to increase in volume fast.
Obviously, the Chorleywood process is its own animal, using a very powerful mixer, even though, as I said, I think the mechanism of AA usage will still be similar to the way it is used by you or anyone else.
I have no interest in no knead doughs - if they are that good, why don't commercial artisan bakeries use them? Their greatest feature seems to be for for their proponents to say "I made a loaf without kneading" rather than any positive values of the loaves made - YMMV and I understand that they may fit in with some peoples' time schedules.
So I would just approach your super sour quest on an empirical level; use a good proportion of strong roller milled flour and if AA works for you, then by all means add it at 100-200 ppm.
The Chorleywood process was developed in the UK in the 50s. It is much hated by UK artisan bakers as it produces classic flavourless, cotton wool bread. Nevertheless, I do have a certain reluctant sympathy for it as it allowed UK bread to be made with much more British wheat and less strong imported wheat. Also it enables bread to be made very cheaply in the large plant bakeries as they became known and then sold at cheap prices, which was and is good for people with not much money. But of course, not good for all the small local bakeries that were then forced out of business!
Lance