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Help in this hi Hydration pillow likeSLAB pizza

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Help in this hi Hydration pillow likeSLAB pizza

There is a place in Portland, Me where the SLAB pizza started in back for a grocery.  THen this guy went onto open SLAB.  Well, the grocery still makes it.  

 

it is so pillowy (word?) and I just can't stop eating it.  So soft, great chew, just AWESOME.  

 

So I started a forum topic on Pizzamaking.com and will link at bottom, way too much to post here.  I have included a couple links and a few short videos of them in both locations.  At the bottom of the last topic page, #5 right now I summed up that they do 5 rises over a 3 hour period.  They are talking close to 90% hydration and as you can see they are flipping the dough and it's not degasing under it's own weight on the flip, I can't get my dough to that point. 

 

Any ideas would be awesome.  I am here because, well, bread guys know it all and I need help.

https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55882.0

Thanks in advance, 

Don

 

 

Levaineer's picture
Levaineer

I actually used to work with the guy who made the dough for Slab. I'm pretty sure he said the dough was 80% hydration and made with tipo 00 flour. I assume the olive oil is counted in the hydration.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Interesting, I will try that on next go .    are you able to contact him to verify???????  You would be the King of the world in my book if any info on  the dough and process behind it.

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

Why don't you make a cross between a pizza and a focaccia as a pan pizza? A do nothing dough and doesn't need to be as high as 90% hydration. Go for a long ferment too. Mix and leave overnight then into a pan with no special shaping nor final proof?

P.s. I've just watched the video and I've gotten it quite close if not almost spot on.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Although this is something specific I am looking for, I would still like to try a recipe if you have one to share ?

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

But any recipe you like the look of will be a good contender. Here is one I've found for you. Looks like it has a nice crumb for what you want. Just miss out the toppings and stick to the plain dough with olive oil. When it comes to the pizza make the crust as thick as you like.

P.s. put the oil in the dough instead of pouring it over after its been shaped. I suppose you could use any pizza type recipe and it's all in the way you handle it.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

this slab dough is super soft and light unlike focaccia.

Abe's picture
Abe (not verified)

If you put the oil inside the dough it'll make it soft. Don't think there's too much too it. Probably 80% hydration including 2-3% olive oil. Probably bread/ap flour. Allowed to double then refrigerated overnight. It's a soft pillow like crust so don't make it thin like a regular pizza. No real shaping. spread out roughly in a pan and top with tomato sauce, mozzarella and herbs/spices with a glug of olive oil. Bake till ready.

e.g.

  • Flour 250g
  • Water 195g
  • Salt 5g
  • Olive Oil 5-8g
  • Dried Yeast 2.5g (less for longer ferment and more for shorter ferment - this is 1%)

Mix in the morning and leave till doubled. That's all you ned to do. No kneading. Just form the dough then cover the bowl and wait till doubled. You can then make pizza with it or refrigerate till the next day.

This is how i'd tackle the recipe. Toppings look quite plain - just tomato sauce, cheese, herbs/spices and a splash of olive oil.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I am trying an 80%. 

Combine, rest 10 min

add oil, mix 2 min rest 10 min

mix 4 min rest 1.5 - hour

then start the punch downs.

 

We shall see

 

 

 

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Another 80%  GO WITH 4% yeast.  This is by far the closest dough to the videos that I have done to date.  I m going to bake this one.  The dough is that billowy and looks spot on. 

 

What I have so far is 

Flour (100%): 350 g | 12.35 oz | 0.77 lbs 
Water (78%): 273 g | 9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs 
IDY (4%): 14 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.65 tsp | 1.55 tbsp 
Salt (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp 
Oil (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.56 tsp | 0.52 tbsp 
Sugar (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.76 tsp | 0.59 tbsp 
Total (188%):   658 g | 23.21 oz | 1.45 lbs | TF = N/A 1:15 PM
(80% = 78% water & 2% oil )

Used Food processor.
All but oil and salt, pulse just to incorporate
rest 10 min
add salt oil and turn on for 1 minute (nice and elastic)
rise 1 hour @ 80 degree  little over double happened
form to tension with the pull into you on counter like the vieo to tension skin, heavy flour(sifted on top), rest 30 min
flip, press out gas, four sit 20 min
Flip and pan rest 20 min.

Bake on stone in grill  stone 550 - 575 13 minutes 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Second rise

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

FInal 80%

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Hey Don. abe’s computer is not working right now. He s having trouble with his TFL profile. He asked me to congratulate you on a beautiful pizza.

I also read every single post on your SLAB pizza on pizzamaking.com. You are a persistent sort. I posted a reply over there. It may improve your efforts...

Dan

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

As on the other site, I am trying the AA.  

 

I used a little much  500MG on 350 flour.

 

I am almost ready to bake thought I won't get the full 3 hours I wanted as I was a little too early on the first punch down.  I can feel a difference in the dough.  1.  IT's holding gas better and I have more bubbles on the form and punch down.  2  I get that ffeeling they talked about int he vids, and 3.  It holds up better to  working it, doesn't cloapse as much.  I am going to bake this one off and back in the oven at 500 and not 600 grill

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I’m excited to hear about your results and hopeful that it will improve your efforts. You have worked crazy-hard to nail this one down.

I am a fan of thin crust pizza, but if you do knock this off, I’ll have to give it a try.

Dan

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I am glad to hear that your SLAB pizza is getting better. What percentage of AA are you using now?

Are you satisfied with the SLAB or are you still tweaking it? Once you get it where you want it, please let me know. I’d like to give it a try.

Don, if I remember correctly this pizza doesn’t ferment very long. If this is correct, are you fully developing the gluten at the mixing stage?

How does the pizza taste?

Danny

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I love the falavor.  I like the grill on stone about 575 - 600 and lift lid near end to keep cheese from browning 

2.5 - 3 hours.

used 500MG Vit C tablet

Need to do another but I am in love with the latest.

 

I do it in the food processor.  All but the salt and oil.  Pulse to combine and Autolyse 10 min, then add oil and salt, run for about 45 sec to 1 min.  

then it's let double then start flip and degas  I did 2 - 3  max

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Please try to remember to notify (PM) me once you have tweaked it to your satisfaction. 

I want to give this a go.

Dan

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Will do, tomorrow Monday another go to see if it's on par with the last one. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Don, can I get you to post the formula and the entire process? Any information that might clarify the unusual process. Do you have the Baker’s Percentages? If not, reply with the weights and I’ll set it up in a spreadsheet.

Please post an image of the cut slice. I’m interested to see how it holds up after being cut.

I might give this baby a try for the fourth of July...

Danny

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Okay, will do

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Just made a dough and 1.5 hour mark I realized I forgot the AA.  ugggggggggggggg!

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

This will confirm the effectiveness of AA. 

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Here's some pics of the non ascorbic acid go.  I realize that the end I put too much sauce on this.  No the edges acrost was perfect I love the texture it's perfect except the middle collapse too much under the sauce and it didn't hold up very well in general

 

 

tomorrow I'm going to do an ascorbic acid one and see how that middle holds up the other thing is I'm doing it in my oven which is only at 500 degrees and I'm going to do to Doe's tomorrow 1 in the 500 degree oven and one on the grill between 550 and 600 degrees and see both will be on the same Stone. This is also the 3% yeast I'm a bop it back up to 4% if I find tomorrow's ascorbic usage still has a little bit of a flat middle  

 

 

 

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

 

Flour (100%): 350 g | 12.35 oz | 0.77 lbs 

Water (78%): 273 g | 9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs 

IDY (4%): 14 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.65 tsp | 1.55 tbsp 

Salt (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp 

Oil (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.56 tsp | 0.52 tbsp 

Sugar (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.76 tsp | 0.59 tbsp 

Ascorbic Acid 500MG tablet (crushed and disolvd in the water

Total (188%): 658 g | 23.21 oz | 1.45 lbs | TF = N/A 1:15 PM

 

 

 

All but oil and salt, pulse just to encorporate

rest 10 min

add salt oil and turn on for 1 minute (nice and elastic)

rise 1.5 hours  little over double

form ball, using high hydration method of pulling into yourself, rest 30 min

flip, press out gas,form rect. sit 15 min

 

 

Flip1/2 degas add to oiled pan (should fit) rest 15 min

sauce, oil, salt oregano, cheese (50/50 prov. motz) bake 500 - 550 oven 13 minutes

 (add pan avove pizze if needed to reduce cheese browning)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Don, please review the spreadsheet and note any errors, or need for clarification. I want to give this beast a try.

Don, please consider joining our Community Bake featuring pizza. It is taking placing right now. I'm sure many would be interested in learning about the SLAB pizza. http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/60568/community-bake-pizza

I may bake a SLAB for the fourth of July festivities... Might need to do a half sheet for my gang. I have plans to do 6) 12" NY Thin Crust and a couple of 16" Cracker Crust pies also. Hamburgers, too! We are going to do a lot of eating...

Danny

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Danny, please see below, I fixed errors, typos, and added more information.  Please note when using the AA it's 3% and not 4% yeast.

 

Flour (100%): 350 g | 12.35 oz | 0.77 lbs 

Water (78%): 273 g | 9.63 oz | 0.6 lbs 

IDY (3%): 10.5 g | 0.49 oz | 0.03 lbs | 4.65 tsp | 1.55 tbsp 

Salt (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 2.06 tsp | 0.69 tbsp 

Oil (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.56 tsp | 0.52 tbsp 

Sugar (2%): 7 g | 0.25 oz | 0.02 lbs | 1.76 tsp | 0.59 tbsp 

Ascorbic Acid 500MG tablet (crushed and disolvd in the water)

Total (188%): 658 g | 23.21 oz | 1.45 lbs | TF = N/A 1:15 PM

 

 

 

In a food processor, combine all but oil and salt, pulse just to incorporate

Rest 10 min

Add salt oil and run for 45 seconds to 1 minute (nice and elastic)

Place in oiled bowl and rise 1.5 hours or just a little over double

Form ball (add tension to outside) using high hydration method(https://youtu.be/vEG1BjWroT0?t=186), 

Place on a sheet pan and dust top with flour(I sift a good portion on top, not light), cover and rest 30 min

Flip, press out gas,form rect, light dusting flour pan and top and cover.  sit 15 - 20 min 

Flip and 1/2 degass add to oiled pan (should fit full pan sizxe at this point) rest 15 - 20 min  

Should now be at bakers sheet level or a little more.  sauce(not too heavy can colapse dough), oil, salt oregano, 

cheese (50/50 prov. motz) bake 500 - 550 oven 13 minutes

 (add pan avove pizzea if needed to reduce cheese browning, best if sheese still white-ish and gooey)

 

Some links to see how all should look/feel/sight.

https://youtu.be/qLE_-swMms8

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=51&v=EuPUkAymQHc

https://slice.seriouseats.com/2011/05/portland-me-micuccis-sicilian-slabs.html#comment-anchor-165436

 

 

  

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Don, here is the revised spreadsheet. Let me know if I missed anything.

Dan

forevers's picture
forevers

What size pan is this dough recipe for?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

1/4 sheet pan , 9 x 13 inches for 658 grams of dough.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

 

 

I was up there this weekend and saw that they let it rise int he bowel for a long time.  So with 5 10 minute rises, as mentioned in the link, that's really  Bulk in bowl for 2:10 then start the punch and rises.

 

 

I will try again and see how that works out. 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I finally made it to SLAB, the actual place Steven Lansalatta (sp?) is at now.  

I found their diagram of steps they take after their bulk rise and I talked to him a little on his process, I didn't get it all but some more information.   So I will update this information soon and post the picture of the process it goes through.  It looks like I will need to reduce the amount of yeast I use as well.  

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Dpoke with the guy.

 

He makes 18lbs at a time

He said he does not use a lot of yeast

He said he mixes it a little then rest 30 minutes and does this a few times. 

Then you can see the process after  I think three mixes and there is the process on the image.

 

I may eliminate the oil in the usage and try again.

 

 

 

Process

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I am trying one today.  I was thinking maybe my previous ones were lacking enough dough so I went with a bigger dough ball like Moose did.

I am doing the following process.
I may be over doing it on the 4 scoop/folds and maybe next time, if I don't like the turn out, do 3 with 1 hr rest after it

Today's process:

----------------------------------------------------
- Mix all and just incorporate

1:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 30 minutes - .5hr

2:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 60 minutes - 1hr

3:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 90 minutes - 1.5hr

4:
- 30 scoop/fold
- 30 min rest   - 90 minutes - 2hr

5:
- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr
   - remove from bowl / rest 5 min - 5min
   - Round / rest 10 min - 15min
   - Pillow (long oval rect) rest 10 min - 25min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 35min
   - Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 45min
   
6:
-  put in pan / rest 15min - 3hr

7:
- Cook 15 min 550 - Turn 1/2 way to even cook

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Okay, I have finished this process.  You have two choices, less hands on 80% as good or 95 - 100% as good and way hands on .

 

Please see post 143 and forward https://www.pizzamaking.com/forum/index.php?topic=55882.140 for the latest go at this after making more calls and learning from the guys there.

As you will see, the dough is touched almost every 15 minutes from start to finish doing it their way 100% of the way.

 

 

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Dano, do you want me to write this up and send it to you for your spreadsheet?

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Definitely! I have been reading through your post here and on PM. I’d like the formula and process.

Looks like the simplest process is the best from what I read. I will probably omit the semolina, because I think you said it made little or no difference.

Thanks for thinking of me.

Danny

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

Well, as this was spot on, I can't say it, semolina, didn't do anything until I try a go without it now that I have the proper handling of the dough to get the results.  I would leave it until it's tested to not be needed.

 

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I have done the Following this time and I like results so far to go into a 2/3 rds pan.
868 - Flour 100%
694 - KABF 80%
173 - Semolina 20%
737 - Water 85% ( may try 80%)
26 - Yeast 3%
34 - Sugar 4%
18 - salt 2%
** No Oil in this one only as I forgot. (I found this to be great, guess none needed)

- Mix rest 15 min - 15 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 30 min (each stretch fold is 4 - 5 times with rotation)
- Fold rest 15 min - 45 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 60 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 75 min
- Fold rest 15 min - 90 min

* See Balled pics, this is after 90 minutes


- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr
- ** See note below first
- remove from bowl / rest 5 min - 5min
- Round / rest 10 min - 15min
- Pillow (long oval rect) rest 10 min - 25min
- Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 35min
- Flip / Dimple / rest 10 min - 45min

- Oil 1/2 sheet and place in pan (envelope fold it then place and open up)
- rest 15 - 20 min
- Sauce and place in preheated 550 (with stone) oven or grill
- Bake 13 - 15 minutes.
- rest 5 - 10 minutes as it holds the heat very well

** Flouring
You must flour to form a little skin and keep from sticking as it will deflate when trying to move it. Also, be gentle with this in all steps. Flouring is done through dusting with a strainer to keep from clumping.

Before you remove it, from the bowl, flour the top and little more at the edges, let it sit a couple minutes. I took a scraper and pushed the edges a little to work the flour around the edge to make the removal easier.

Once out, dust the top and let sit.
Dust as needed each step until in the pan.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

of the result

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

I would say that you could reduce the amount of flour by 10% as it was crowding the pan a little.  This made a 1/2 bakers sheet.  

 

Texture - Super soft and billowy.  You can eat a ton as it eats super easy and not as heavy as it feels when holding it.

 

It's a fun pizza, something different but a lot of touching and steps but after making many many of these, you need to follow the process.   If you want to touch it as little as possible then check the version in the spread sheet previous for the food processor and ascorbic acid way and you can be close but it will not be as soft and light while eating.

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

made these wirh the dough.  life changing.  soft and great flavor.  did meatball sub and muffalata life changing.   made toast, no amount of butter could make these soggy, crunch all the way.

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

and 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

and 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

This is the process chart for aftert the mix rest so the portion for 

"- Do process - 45 min - 2.75hr"

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

So I thought once posted I could remove images from my dir and clean up   Appears they are linked to this post, will add some back.

 

dmaclaren2's picture
dmaclaren2

 

 

 

Awbarrett's picture
Awbarrett

Have you tried making the Luna bread from the same dough? It is my understanding the dough for the Slabs and for Luna bread are the same at Micucci’s. Eating a crab roll with Luna bread is amazing!