The Fresh Loaf

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What is your favorite Ciabatta formula using yeast

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

What is your favorite Ciabatta formula using yeast

I am a self confessed sourdough freak, but when it comes to Ciabatta I like the yeasted versions better.

What is your favorite yeasted version? I am looking to build flavors over time, so a poolish or something along those lines would probably be best. I am after flavor and open crumb.

Thanks in Advance.

Dan

Oh, my favorite all time ciabatta was a formula I got from King Arthur website many years ago. For the life of me, I can’t find that formular. I went so far as calling KA in the hopes that someone there would have it, but no luck. I remember it used a long fermented poolish, but that is about all I can recall.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

this one is great (from maggie glezer)

makes 2

24hr biga

300g bread flour

15g wholewheat

15g rye

185g cool water

yeast (put 1/4 tsp in a cup of warm water and add 1/2 tsp yeast water into biga)

final dough

325g bread flour

1 tsp yeast

13g salt

342g water

biga

 

simple directions

mix and knead (or use mixer) (better to cut up biga and add slowly)

ferment for 3 hours approx with 4 stretch and folds

divide and proof for 45 min

bake

 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Thanks Mutant. I have little experience with a biga. I know they are dry. Other than hydration, what will a biga produce that is different from a poolish? I am inquisitive and always striving to learn.

Dan

Update: I am fermenting the biga now. Thanks for the suggestion.

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

its more suitable for lower temperatures but what ive found is that you get the most wonderful aroma from them - can be a paoin when getting to mixong stage though....theres a great 90% biga bread on this forum from @abelbreadgallery @ http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/54556/90-biga-loaf-italian-method

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

It’s been years since I baked ciabatta. But it has always been a favorite of mine. I followed your formula and the dough behaved as expected. I divided into 2 loaves, but they where very difficult to handle because they were giants. Next time 3, maybe 4 loaves for that dough weight. I also think I baked too hot. Haven’t sliced it yet.

Boy! Did they grow in the oven... Dimpling on the front loaf didn’t slow it down much. It is amazing how little yeast the biga needs to rise.

I was cautioned to bake the bread thoroughly because of the hydration. I definitely took the instruction to heart and nearly cremated this one:-(. I should have followed my instincts.

Next, I will be baking the Cooks Illustrated ciabatta. I’m going to have to dial my ciabattas back in :-)

Dan

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

"Tomorrow I will be baking the Cooks Illustrated ciabatta."

https://www.cooksillustrated.com/videos/331-ciabatta?incode=MCSCD00L0&ref=new_search_experience_3

Dan, it is worth watching this video.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I have watched it several times. The speaker sure does speak fast :-). I am getting ready to mix the dough now. I let the poolish go 24 hr.

Dan

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I can supply the actual spreadsheet if anyone is interested. Just send me a PM with your email address.

Here is my conversion from ounces to grams.

Sponge ----------------------------

5 oz. 142g    All-purpose flour
4 oz. 114g    Water
1/8 tsp 0.7g  Instant dry yeast 

Dough -----------------------------

10 oz 283g    All-purpose flour
1.5 tsp 8.5g   Salt
0.5 tsp 1.4  Instant dry yeast
6 oz. 170g    Water
2 oz. 57g    Whole milk

Danny

WatertownNewbie's picture
WatertownNewbie

Dan, one of my favorites is from Bread Illustrated (a book by the folks at Cook's Illustrated).

     Sponge

5 oz.    All-purpose flour

4 oz.    Water

1/8 tsp  Instant dry yeast

     Dough

10 oz.   All-purpose flour

1.5 tsp  Salt

0.5 tsp  Instant dry yeast

6 oz.    Water

2 oz.    Whole milk

(They use ounces rather than grams in the book.)  The last time I made this bread I used Caputo 00 flour and 2% reduced fat milk, and I liked the result.  I also found that mixing a little on medium speed helped.

     Steps

1. Combine sponge ingredients, cover, and let sponge rise and then begin to collapse (~6 hours, up to 24 hours).

2. Whisk flour, salt, yeast together.  Stir water and milk into sponge.  In stand mixer with paddle on low speed, slowly add sponge mixture, increase to medium-low speed.  Continue until dough becomes uniform mass (scrape bowl as necessary).

3. Switch to dough hook.  Mix on medium-low until smooth and shiny (~10 minutes).  Transfer dough to a bowl, cover, let rise until doubled (30-60 minutes).

4. Stretch-and-fold, cover and wait 30 minutes, repeat folding, cover and wait another 30 minutes (until doubled).

5. Divide dough into two portions on well-floured counter, press and stretch into 12" x 6" rectangles (handle gently).

6. Do business letter fold to form rough 7" x 4" shapes, transfer to parchment, cover loosely, let sit until dough puffy and small bubbles (~30 minutes).

7. Transfer parchment to peel.  Form 10" x 6" rectangles.

8. Mist loaves with water, bake at 450 F for 25-30 minutes.

These photos are from my last bake.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Thanks Ted, your bread looks like it would have that great ciabatta taste. The loaves are beautiful and have that “chibby-ish” look, which I crave :-)

I may try the formula soon. But I just started Craig Ponsford (Biga style) formula. I don’t remember ever making a biga preferment for ciabatta, so I’m off and running.

Dan

bottleny's picture
bottleny

You can check the Bread Basic Info in The Artisan website. This website is dedicated to Italian Baking. You will find the detailed info about biga in "Direct and Indirect Methods of Bread Baking" section.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman
DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Dab, I’ve baked Jason’s a coupe of times. It is quick and easy, but for me it lacks the ciabatta flavor of those breads that ferment over a much longer time.

It is a popular bread, it’s just not for me. Thanks for the suggestion, though.

Dan

 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

tastes much different than one that takes a few hours.  Yeah a small poolish might help but even I can't tell the difference when in a blind taste test.  SD yes but yeast not very much. 

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I searched the Internet for formulas with Baker’s Percentages for Craig Ponders version of ciabatta. I found this link with a video of Craig, but here he uses a poolish.

https://www.communitygrains.com/recipe-items/craig-ponsford-makes-ciabatta/

Btw, I ordered a bread sed copy of Maggie Gezer’s book. I only hope it is not dealing with cups, teaspoons, ect.. But I fear it is :-(

Dan

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Bread is very old and the great recipes are even older long before the invention of grams:-)  I  Old bakers didn't need it and neither do you.  It is easy to convert recipes to grams for those who need machines for gratification:-)  Like a famous painter once said 'Sexual gratification can only be achieved by the use of machines.'  He was also a great song writer and that wast the name if one of his more famous songs.  I bet he was living in Joe's Garage at tehetime.  Better to like cups I think:-)

alfanso's picture
alfanso

Arroba was a Portuguese and Spanish custom unit of weight, mass or volume. Its symbol is @.

The word arroba has its origin in Arabic ar-rubʿ (الربع) or "quarter," specifically the fourth part (of a quintal), which defined the average load which a donkey could carry.  In weight it was equal to 32 pounds (14.7 kg) in Portugal and 25 pounds (11.5 kg) in Spain.

And then there's "carat" used for weighing jewels and based on the weight of a carob seed.

You are quoting Sy Borg from Joe's Garage, Part II.  The original Joe's Garage remains one of my favorite albums and I did many things that I was glad to have done have while listening to that album, but wouldn't pass muster with my elders had they known.  Gimme dat chromium leg.

Suzy Creamcheese

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

dollars now making huge piles of money for his estate.  Suzy Creamcheese would be horrified:-)  Little Green Rosettas will make your muffins taste bettah!

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

one of my favourite books as is her book on jewish bread

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

youll be glad to hear that Maggie Glezers book does metric too - i too am tired of converting...

mwilson's picture
mwilson

In Italy Giorilli is the forerunner of what is pretty much a standardised formulation for Ciabatta.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

I goggled Giorilli and found loads of info in Italian, which I don’t understand. I am interested to learn more. It seems that all of his books are in Italian and none in english. Are there resources available in english?

Dan

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Sorry Dan, no English.

Ciabatta is all about the biga. I'm thinking of buying one of his books and if I do I will translate the recipe for you.

Until then here is a link to a version of Ciabatta from Giorilli but of course in Italian.

 

Michael

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

If you do translate, I’d like to take a look. If I am correct, it looks like the biga is 45% hydrated. 

Tell me this Michael, since a dry levain (biga) makes for a stronger dough, why is it used for cabatta? Is it about strengthening the wet dough or is it more about flavor? And if flavor, how the biga influence it? I have no real knowledge of dry levain.

Danny

mwilson's picture
mwilson

Exactly. Whenever you increase extensibility, in this case with high hydration you need to balance it with strength. A high percentage of stiff starter will provide a lot of strength. It is a double act, such that the biga with its long fermentation will provide plenty of flavour too.

It is necessary to include malt in the second mix to give the yeast some food. The biga is exhausted by the end of its fermentation.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Ponsford formula does not include malt. Since the biga is almost half the formula and it ferments for 24 hours, malt does sound like it might ght be a great help.

Michael, what percentage of malt to ttl flour do you recommend?

Thanks for the tip. That may make a huge difference.

Dan

Colin2's picture
Colin2

What I've been following lately:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D9ZvlKQmm6M

I let the poolish ferment two or three days.  I don't know if there would be a difference pre-fermenting more of the dough.

 

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

how does the gluten keep it together over such a long period...does poolish not totally collapse? do you use as little salt to keep it going? 

BethJ's picture
BethJ

I've probably made it 100 times (literally).  It's truly a no-fail recipe, and gave me a lot of initial experience handling slack dough.  I usually add a dollop of unfed starter to the sponge for flavor.  I've cut the dough anywhere from 2 pieces (for big loaves) to 16 pieces (for little rolls) and anywhere in between.  Makes a great burger bun or dinner roll or what have you.

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

The Cooks Illustrated version came out the best for me so far. The “bite” is outstanding. A thin crisp, crackly crust, and a soft crumb. For my taste, the perfect ciabatta (like I made years ago) would have a little deeper flavor. I think I’ll try adding a little extra virgin oil olive next time to see if it makes a difference. I do think the milk is a nice touch.

I like the rolls (buns) best for practical purposes. They are self contained single servings and freeze well that way. and they provide maiximum crust for great sandwiches...

Thanks for the formula.

Dan

Upate - Beth, I just reread your post. I may try a small amount of levain in a future bake. I see we are both fans of the rolls :-)

DanAyo's picture
DanAyo

Mutant, how much should the Biga rise? Also what is the optimum temp for fermenting the biga for 24 hrs?

I often find myself not including temperatures in the instructions. But when I bake another’s bread I always want to know what they are :-) 

Not to self - include temperatures when sharing instructions. LOL

Dan

mutantspace's picture
mutantspace

around 14C and it wont really rise. Its also important (actually very important) not to mix it. You want no gluten development. you want to see the flour in strands/threads. Over the 24 hours itll slowly hydrate and ferment. not much rise but a beautiful smell. It was originally used because Italian flours were traditionally weak and so biga was kept in cellars to mature. itll be stiff so youll have to chop into pieces and slowly mix... 

The Roadside Pie King's picture
The Roadside Pi...

BethJ's picture
BethJ

I could eat one of those right now, Dan.  :)

According to the original write-up of the recipe, the milk is in there for not only flavor, but to help keep the crumb uniform.  Apparently the author had been having problems with oversized holes, and the ultimately (after much trial and error), the addition of milk proved to be the solution.  I quote:  milk contains a protein fragment called glutathione, which acts to slightly weaken the gluten strands.

I'll be curious to hear of the addition of some starter to the biga gives you the flavor profile you're seeking.

Happy baking!