The Fresh Loaf

A Community of Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts.

Flat and Dense

catsmeow's picture
catsmeow

Flat and Dense

Hello, 

This has happened twice, and I feel I've been following the recipe exactly with ingredients, weights and timing: The loaves, when baked, are flat and very dense. 

Is this caused by the first rise being too long? My recipe calls for 3 - 4 hours. How short should I cut it by if this is the issue?

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

Best to give us a bit more information if we are to help. What exactly is the recipe? And where are you (so, what flour do you use and what is your climate)? Sourdough or yeast bread? Etc.

catsmeow's picture
catsmeow

It's a sourdough loaf. I use bread flour. 

Lazy Loafer's picture
Lazy Loafer

In absence of any other details, I would suspect the sourdough starter not having enough strength (i.e a high enough population of active yeasts) to rise bread. It's not likely that a 3 to 4 hour bulk ferment (or the 'first rise') is going to be too long for a sourdough bread.

catsmeow's picture
catsmeow

that's not necessarily true. You can have a short ferment, say 3-4 hours and a second at 2-3, and still be successful. The longer ferments allow for the sour taste to develop and gives you the light airy inside. That's not what I'm aiming for. We don't really like a sour taste, and the recipe I'm using is for a soft sourdough loaf, more like sandwich bread. 

IceDemeter's picture
IceDemeter

some info on just what your local conditions are, could definitely help in trouble-shooting (and pics - they always help)!  What does the dough look and feel like before you go to shape it? Did it double in bulk ferment, or did it not rise at all? How does it look and feel when you try to score it?

If it is your starter that isn't quite up to the job yet, then trying the exact recipe and procedure with a bit of added Instant Dry Yeast (IDY) or Active Dry Yeast (ADY) would be definitive proof (if the recipe works when you add yeast, then it is obvious that your starter didn't have enough yeast to raise the loaf).  If that is the case, then some time doing some TLC at room temp on your starter should fix the issue for you.

Other possible issues could be lack of gluten development (are you doing any kneading at all?), serious under-proofing (is your room temperature really cool - say 65 deg F or so?  If so, then your bulk ferment might need to be 7 or 8 hours), or it could be serious over-proofing (is your room temperature really warm - say 80 deg F or more?  If so, then your bulk ferment and / or final proof might need to be shortened from the recipe). 

The main thing is that a recipe is written based on the author's flours, water, kitchen temperatures, and home elevation, so following their timing exactly is NOT necessarily going to get you good results.  You will see the advice here often to "watch the dough and not the clock", which allows you to get the right results even when your home temperature and elevation and other conditions are totally different from what the recipe was designed for.

Please let us know more details of what is happening, and you will get far more useful advice.

catsmeow's picture
catsmeow

It may be a little on the chilly side (60F) here. I'm going to try another run today and keep it in the oven with the light on and a pot of hot water along side it. I'll also try kneading it a bit more. 

The dough did rise during the first rise, but the second rise wasn't so successful. It rose, not much, and was flat. When scored, it was soft and pulled, and didn't cut too deeply, partially because it was dragging all of the dough along with it. The bread didn't split when baked. No photos - already cut up for croutons. 

I'll take a few photos at each stage for this run - thank you all for your suggestions!