The Fresh Loaf

News & Information for Amateur Bakers and Artisan Bread Enthusiasts

Rise and then fall...

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hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Rise and then fall...

I get this with some of my breads and I am just curious as to why this happens.  It is usually my breads that have other flours added.  I get a beautiful rise, and then if I let it go a bit too long, or sometimes it happens during baking, the bread falls.  I was just wondering why this happens.  

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Fermentation is happening faster, it seems. Different flours ferment at different speeds, such as Whole rye and whole spelt flours. Spiking a dough with either one of these or both will lead to an active dough that must be watched closely. 

Share the recipe you're having trouble with, perhaps we could help.

Khalid

ericreed's picture
ericreed

then the gluten structure can collapse during baking, or when you score the bread. As noted above, whole grain flours have more nutrients for yeast and can ferment faster. They also tend to make gluten development harder to begin with and more fragile. The finger dent test can help you know when your bread is properly proofed.

This is a Ken Forkish video on the finger dent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oAfl1u0fIw

Basically you're looking for it to spring back slowly and incompletely. General rule isif it comes back quickly and the dent basically disappears it's underproofed, it it stays collapsed and doesn't spring back, it's overproofed.

hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

My general recipe is 3c bread flour (sometimes I switch out 1 c. for a cup of barley or oat flour though).  1 1/2 tsp salt, 1 1/2 c. water and 1/4 tsp yeast.  I mix them, knead using the dough cycle on my bread machine, and then let it ferment on the counter for about 12 hr.  Then I bake at 425F for about 20 to 30 minutes.  It is usually when I mix with the other flour that the fall happens.  Although one time it happened with whole wheat bread flour, when I baked it.  

DavidEF's picture
DavidEF

hamletcat,

With sourdough, double-digit rise times are common, but with commercial yeast, I think it may be too much. I see you're using only a small amount of yeast, but you may need to reduce it even more. Also, the 'other' flours are introducing 'other' enzymes, wild yeasts and lactobacilli, and who-knows-what-else to your dough, accelerating the fermentation. If the falling is happening mostly when using those other flours, but happens sometimes even with the plain flour, it is almost certainly overproofing.

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

is at least 84% hydration and too wet.  Adding in non gluten flours only makes it worse.  With a way, way, too long, 12 hour proof using commercial yeast with a dough that is too wet to begin with - only leads to disaster.  This dough should collapse like a ripe poolish even before it gets in the oven.

This recipe is a horrible one, a total waste of time,  and it is better to use one that will actually work well - every time rather than one that can't possibly ever work.

hamletcat's picture
hamletcat

Ok thanks.  I was just using a recipe I found on the internet.  Until recently, I have only ever made bread with a breadmaker.  I didn't know that what I was doing was not a good approach.  

Heath's picture
Heath

You might find the lessons on the top of the page helpful.  The first lesson contains a recipe for a basic white loaf, which might prove a useful learning experience for you.