The Fresh Loaf

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Poor volume with natural levain version of 36hr baguette from Txframer

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sawyerc's picture
sawyerc

Poor volume with natural levain version of 36hr baguette from Txframer

I have great result with commercial yeast 36hr version 

 

( I may need to proof longer as the hole tend to be vertical in steads of in a round shape?)

But I cant get as opened as above with the sourdough version, volume is much lower

I feel the dough is more "tight" right after mixing ( probably due to the acid )

The bulk fermentation take much longer ,but my dough never triple in volume(where the stage I end my bulk fermentation in commercial  yeast version) even a 4-24-2hr of bulk fermentation. 

When I  shape it into a baguette, it is not extendable enough. I have to roll it with some force.

even they look similar before putting into the oven. The sourdough version's one dont have a large oven spring and the volume suffer a lot.

I have used my starter to make tartine bread with no oven spring problem

1. Am I overproof the dough?

2. the starter too acidic / not having enough yeast? should I use younger starter? but I doubt young starter dont have enough yeast cell too and the LAB still win over yeast in the long bulk fermentation period.

3.Should I not S&F at all? The dough is so tight and it can pass the window plate test right after mixing. But I heard less S&F may lead to less volume?

4. Should I look for different "feel" of each stages for the sourdough version? 

5. I heard sourdough bread have slower oven spring. Should I need to lower the oven temp to prolong the oven spring?  but my oven cant trap the steam that long anyway..

6.other factors I neglected?

PS. the breads from sourdough version is more  sticky to my teeth . Is this caused by the acid too?

Sorry for grammatical mistakes, non-native but too lazy too proof-read. Too busy trying and trying this recipe over and over. 

Thank you for reading this messy thread 

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

looks awful good to me.  Comparing the open holes in the SD version to what you can get with commercial yeast, is like comparing the taste of the two.  No matter how good, the commercial yeast version will always lack that great taste of SD,

sawyerc's picture
sawyerc

BUT I live in Hong Kong which is a Chinese city with different bread culture. 99.9% of  breads here are enriched breads with intensive kneading. We dont used to eat lean dough and SD .

the comments I get from SD version are "too sour"," are they rotten?"   ( I am a Chinese too,but for my taste, they have complex and balanced flavour , not too sour at all. I don know if my tongue is insensitive to sourness or they dont know how to appreciated the sourness of SD)

So I plan to lower the acidity of the dough for taste and volume. I know it come from  long fermentation from the frige but I dont wanna shorten it too much as it s the essence of this recipe 

 

MisterTT's picture
MisterTT

you're getting good volume on both your SD baguettes and boules. Whatever good can be said for sourdough it's still true it will always lose to commercial yeast in sheer rising power. If you desperately want larger holes, spike your sourdough version with a small amount of commercial yeast, to the tune of 0.5-0.8%.

sawyerc's picture
sawyerc

Txfamer manage to get as opened as the comemercial yeast version

I feed my starter every 7-9hr( 74F environment ) with 1:1:1 ratio

Any change can be made to increase the leveraging power and lower the acidity of the starter? 

MisterTT's picture
MisterTT

to really get the yeast going, and use several builds. That's the best way I know to ramp up yeast activity in sourdough. Try feeding something like 1:3:3 or even higher proportion of flour:starter and not fermenting it too long. I think a couple refreshes like that will increase the yeast population in the starter, but probably at the expense of acid bacteria. However, since you'll be doing an overnight ferment it should turn out well enough.

It's just a suggestion! Use your better judgment, my baguettes are far worse than yours! :)

BobS's picture
BobS

If my baguettes, sourdough or otherwise, looked that good I'd be drinking a toast :)

sawyerc's picture
sawyerc

Read and digest the posts from Txfarmer and practice a while.

For baguettes,I think the keys are  sufficient bulf fermentation ( I look for triple in volume) and gentle handling( try to divide and preshape the dough longer so u dont need to roll it too much to get the desired length(rolling degas the large bubble very easily)