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Gilchesters Miche/Boules; Borodinsky using the Auerman Process. 6th February 2012

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ananda's picture
ananda

Gilchesters Miche/Boules; Borodinsky using the Auerman Process. 6th February 2012

I made these 10 loaves using the wood-fired oven today.

The oven is now heating up well; I have moved batches of wood inside around our Inglenook fireplace for a few days and this extra drying really helps.   Burning logs is now easy, and it makes the oven "solid".

1.    “Borodinsky” using the Auerman Method

One Pullman Pan

Rye Sour build:

Day

Time

Stock Sour

Dark Rye

Water

TOTAL

Sunday

10:15

92

285

475

852

      

Material/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1a. Rye Sourdough

 

 

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

30

300

Water

50

500

TOTAL

80

800

 

 

 

1b. “Scald”

 

 

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

15

150

Red Malted Rye

5

50

Organic Blackstrap Molasses

6

60

Boiling Water

35

350

TOTAL

61

610

 

 

 

2. “Sponge”

 

 

Rye Sourdough [from 1a.]

80

800

“Scald” [from 1b.]

61

610

TOTAL

141

1410

 

 

 

3. Final Paste

 

 

“Sponge” [from 2]

141

1410

Bacheldre Organic Dark Rye Flour

30

300

Marriage’s Organic Strong Flour

20

200

Salt

1.5

15

Crushed Coriander Seeds

1

10

TOTAL

193.5

1935

 

 

 

% pre-fermented flour

30 + 20 = 50

-

% overall hydration

85

-

% wholegrain flour

80

-

FACTOR

10

-

 

   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   
   

 

Method:

  • Build the sour as described, make the Scald at the same time as preparing the final refreshment of the sour.   Cover and cool to room temperature overnight.   Make the Sponge first thing in the morning and ferment this for 4 hours.
  • Mix the sponge with the flours, salt and coriander using a paddle beater, on first speed for 2 minutes, and second speed for 3 minutes, scraping down the bowl as necessary.   DDT 28°C.
  • Bulk proof for 1 hour.
  • Line a Pullman Pan neatly with silicone paper and scale the paste into the pan, neatening off carefully.   Top with some freshly crushed coriander seeds.    Attach the lid.
  • Final Proof 3 hours.   Bake a minimum of 4 hours in the “dead” wood-fired oven, up to 16 hours
  • Cool on wires

 

 2.    Gilchesters’ Miche/Boules

Makes 9 loaves: 2 @ 1350g; 3 @ 950g; 3 @ 650g and 1 @ 350g

Levain build:

Day

Time

Stock Levain

Strong White Flour

Water

TOTAL

Sunday

12:00

40

350

210

600

Sunday

16:30

600

350

210

1160

Sunday

21:00

1160

425

255

1840

The leaven was then allowed to prove slowly overnight in the fridge

Material/Stage

Formula [% of flour]

Recipe [grams]

1. Wheat Levain

 

 

Marriage’s Organic Strong White Flour

25

1125

Water

15

675

TOTAL

40

1800

 

 

 

2. Final Dough

 

 

Wheat Levain [from above]

40

1800

Gilchesters’ Organic Farmhouse Flour

75

3375

Salt

1.8

81

Water

58

2610

TOTAL

174.8

7866

 

 

 

% pre-fermented flour

25

-

% overall hydration

73

-

% wholegrain flour [approx 85% extraction]

75

-

FACTOR

45

-

 

Method:

    •  Build the levain, see description above.
    • For mixing, first of all mix on first speed for 3 minutes with a hook attachment, then autolyse the Gilchesters flour with the water for 1 hour.
    • Add the levain and the salt.   Mix on first speed only for 10 minutes.   Dough Temperature Calculation worked out as follows: WT = 3[DDT – FRH] – Leaven Temp – Flour Temp.   [84 – 1] – 18 – 20 = 45.   Water temperature required at 45°C.   The gentle nature of the mixing action is evident here with just 1°C rise in temperature due to friction!
    • Bulk prove the dough maintaining DDT of 26°C for 2 hours.  
    • Scale and divide as above.   Mould round and rest for 15 minutes.   Prepare bannetons, re-mould dough pieces and set to final proof.
    • Final proof DDT maintained at 26°C, for 3 hours.
    • Tip each loaf out of the banneton onto a peel, score the top and set to bake on the sole of the wood-fired oven.   Small loaves bake in half an hour, next biggest takes 40 minutes and the biggest loaf took around 50 minutes
    • Cool on wires.

Happy Baking!

Andy

Comments

PiPs's picture
PiPs

The miches look great Andy! ... and your fitting all ten in one ovenload?

I have been inclined to start my rye breads with a really high heat and then dropping it back gradually ... I'm a scaredy cat!  Does the dead oven provide enough heat for adequate oven spring? I would be keen to see a crumb/profile photo of the rye bread.

So all these lovely breads have good homes to go to?

Cheers,
Phil

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Phil,

I'm counting 9 Gilchesters loaves; yes they fitted just nicely into the oven all at once.   This really helps my medium term production planning, as I want to make 18 loaves like this for each bake.   I then want to make 6 large rye breads after that.   Only thing now required is to invest in more bannetons and Pullman Pans.

Yes, agreed about the initial heat being of benefit when loading the panned and lidded rye breads.   I can do this in the electric oven, then transfer to the brick oven if needs be.   To be honest the oven was sitting at 250*C when I loaded just the one Borodinsky yesterday.   So my aim of baking on the dead oven had already fallen flat on its face.   The loaf was well baked inside 2 hours.   When I checked the temperature in the oven chamber this morning it was still over 80*C, some 18 hours after I'd started baking on it.   I actually take great encouragement from this as I realise more is possible from this little oven than I could have hoped for.

By the way, did you notice I posted my "Top 3" on your own current post in response to your asking?   Let me know your thoughts if you get chance!

You'll have to content yourself with a crumb profile from a previous bake, here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27107/borodinsky-using-auerman-process

There should be little difference.   This loaf is stashed in the freezer ready for the next Market.

Good to hear from you

Best wishes

Andy

PiPs's picture
PiPs

aaah ... yeah, I saw your count of ten loaves at the start of your post and fixated on that number.

Great that your oven is storing so much residual heat ... that's got to help with your plans.

Cheers,
Phil

Syd's picture
Syd

Great baking Andy.  What mixer are you using or were all those boules hand mixed?  Would love to see some photos of the process: mixing, proofing, shaping etc.  It is always so informative to see how other people do it especially in such large quantities.

Best,

Syd

 

varda's picture
varda

to see the variety and quantity you have been making.   That Borodinsky is big and beautiful.   Do you tend to sell them in halves?   I made a "Gilchester" Miche a few months ago substituting in Atta flour.   I'm wondering if just an unbleached relatively low gluten AP flour might be a reasonable substitute as well.   Has anyone else tried this formula substituting in flour available over here I wonder.   -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Varda,

yes, absolutely, I cut the rye breads and then sell them by weight.   How liberated is that?

For the Gilchesters loaves, I modelled them as close as I could to a Poilane-style loaf, but kept the Gilchesters flour as high as possible in the formula to justify using the name.   The flour is a high extraction flour, approximately 85% of the wholegrain.   So an All Purpose flour would produce a very different loaf...and we don't have an All Purpose equivalent here in the UK.   There is Strong and Plain, and the plain is too weak to make bread.   A good compromise is to mix strong and plain, but that's not relevant to our discussion here.   See photos of the crumb here:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/23811/miche-using-stiff-levain-and-gilchesters-organic-farmhouse-flour

All good wishes

Andy

varda's picture
varda

I need to find a source for high extraction flour.   (After posting my comment, I realized that you had already answered this awhile ago.  Guess I'm getting old and forgetful.)   Even trusty (and expensive) King Arthur doesn't sell a high extraction flour that I'm aware of.  -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Ask David and Glenn Snyder, Varda.

I know you're a long way apart, but they have sourced beautiful high extraction flour.

Best wishes

Andy

hanseata's picture
hanseata

Those loaves look so nice! I envy you - perhaps I should give my husband a hint (with a fence pole) how important it is to have a wood fired oven.

And the "A" scoring - it can't be for adultery - is it for Andy?

Karin

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Karin,

I believe it was Codruta who came up with "A for Awesome", but yes, the original is for "Andy", and certainly not adultery.   Would your husband not succomb to more subtle hints than violence?   You'd add a whole new dimension to all those lovely German breads you make if you had a brick oven.

Thank you for your generous comments

Best wishes

Andy

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

The pressure to try a 100% rye in the pullman pan is building.

David

ananda's picture
ananda

Don't let it go away David!!

Very best wishes

Andy

teketeke's picture
teketeke

Very nice loaves, Andy!  

Thank you for this! 

Dough Temperature Calculation worked out as follows: WT = 3[DDT – FRH] – Leaven Temp – Flour Temp.   3[84 – 1] – 18 – 20 = 45.   Water temperature required at 45°C.   The gentle nature of the mixing action is evident here with just 1°C rise in temperature due to friction!

Happy baking,

Akiko

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Akiko,

further thought here: for every 1*C straying from DDT, this will result in 6% differential in gas generation.   Dough temperature is fundamental to control your baking schedule, be in no doubt.

It's good to hear from you

Best wishes

Andy

ananda's picture
ananda

Sorry Akiko,

My mistake. The formula should read 3[28-1] = 3 x 27 = 81

81 - 18 - 20 = 43

Best wishes

Andy

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Andy,
Happy to see your oven is firing well - and such beautiful results, as always!
:^) from breadsong


 

ananda's picture
ananda

Thank you for your generous comments Breadsong

Very best wishes

Andy

SylviaH's picture
SylviaH

It just doesn't get any better.  Gorgeous!

Sylvia

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Sylvia,

You are too kind, thank you so much for your comments

All good wishes

Andy

Salilah's picture
Salilah

Well, wanted to start with an A - and Awesome had already gone!

Very pretty loaves - so glad the WFO is working out well...

S

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Sali,

Good to hear from you and thank you for your very kind comments

Best wishes

Andy

Mebake's picture
Mebake

Andy! Very appetizing Breads, and @ 8kG! Wow. That is some serious Hardcore baking!

With your devotion, and excellent breads, you sure will have a bright future.

Lovely!

you know, i'd really love to try some of your breads above, but multi-stage leavens schedule intimidates me.

 

Mebake's picture
Mebake

btw, your DDT is 84F or 84 C?

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Khalid,

DDT is 28*C.   Multiply this by your factor of 3 to give you 84, because you have water temp, flour temp and pre-ferment temp on the other side of the equation.   I've made a correction in my text above, thanks for that.

The levain systems are not that complicated.   It's simply a matter of making sure the leavens are fed properly so they are ripe and ready to use at the right time.   I reckon you already have that under your hat.

Best wishes

Andy

ps. 8kg is maximum capacity for effective mixing in my 20 quart machine.

PiPs's picture
PiPs

Hey Andy,

I have seen other forumlas that take ambient room temperature into consideration ... any thoughts?

I am on the fence regarding it as I try to keep the dough at the required temperature.

Cheers,
Phil

ananda's picture
ananda

HI Phil,

Yes there is the option of adding in a fourth factor to the formula used above in order to take ambient temperature into account.   It is generally used when the ambient temperature of the bakery is likely to fluctuate wildly.   Like you I try to find somewhere to store the dough which allows me to maintain the temperature desired.   On the hearth works well most of the time, with the kitchen windowsill to use in the warmer months.   If you use the fouth factor then the equation becomes this:

4[Desired Dough Temperature - Frictional Heat Rise] = Water Temp + Flour Temp + Pre-ferment Temp + Ambient Temp

It is useful if you start work in a really cold bakery but find it warms up considerably as work time progresses, for instance...or if you live in a place where climate is really varied.

Thanks for raising this point

Best wishes

Andy

 

varda's picture
varda

Hi Andy,   Hope you are doing well.   I have been looking at your various Borodinsky formulas and approaches and realized that you did something different here.    No Molasses at all.   And salt and coriander in the final instead of in the scald.    Anything behind this change?   Also, I see that a year ago you weren't making the sponge, but adding the scald and the sour directly into the final paste.   This is for taste?    Thanks so much.   -Varda

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Varda,

Thanks for coming back to this post with these questions.

The omission of molasses is an error in the write-up; I did include it in the formula, and have amended the table in the original post.   Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Inclusion of coriander in the final paste instead of in the scald was used simply because I had no coriander seeds in stock when I made the scald, and had to make a trip to the shop in the morning so I could crush seeds for the final paste.

Salt: I think I made this change some time ago now, but I could be wrong.   I was adding salt to the scald in order to try to prevent excess enzyme activity.   However, I was finding that the secondary fermentation in the sponge was slowed right down and that the final paste then got stuck.   I am now much happier with how the sponge performs, so this is my preferred method, to add salt at the final stage only.

With regard to adopting the 3 stage process, you probably read quite a lot of debate and discussion within the threads of previous posts, and it is not territory I would particularly care to re-visit.   But to give brief clarity, I originally learnt to make Borodinsky at Village Bakery, and we used neither a scald, nor a spong to make the bread, just a rye sourdough with molasses, malt, salt and coriander added at the final stage with water.

The official Borodinsky bread made in accordance with the GOST standards uses the 3 stage process as outlined by Auerman, where the scald and sour are combined to make a sponge for secondary ferment, then the final ingredients are added for a 3rd stage.   This process is attributed to Borodin, I believe.   The other origin of the name Borodinsky is as a peasant bread made in celebration after Russian victory in the Battle of Borodino in 1812.

Why did I start using the 3 stage process?   Because I found out about it along the way.   Why do I prefer to use it now?   Because it makes better bread when it works well; the fermentation is much stronger.   The biggest flavour difference, to me, comes from being able to source good Red Malt, and a rye source is preferable to barley here.

Hope this clarifies everything for you.

All good wishes

Andy

varda's picture
varda

for your clarifications.   I am planning to make some more Borodinsky and I was going through the last year or so of your posts on it, trying to see what was what.   I got some rye berries and am sprouting them now to make malt.   I don't know how that will compare with the good red malt you are sourcing.  Since I started with your Sept 2011 version, I went straight to a sponge and it had great flavor, so no reason to back track.  Thanks again.  -Varda

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Andy, 

 If this bake represents a part of a medium production run, assuming I've read your response to Phil correctly, what do you estimate a full working day's production to be when all the requirements are in place ? From a fully fired oven, how many  lots of 18 hearth breads could you put through before you would need to re-fire the oven? I've no idea what your holding capacity is for proofed and retarded loaves, but I'm interested to know how this will be managed, as it's a crucial production factor, and one I'll eventually have to address when the time comes... a few years down the road.  

Apparently Varda and I are on parallel tracks regarding the  Borodinsky, as I was all set to ask you the same questions before I had a full read of the thread this AM. Thanks for the clarifications.

Rye malt should be arriving in the mail this week, and thanks to you for sending the link to the brewing supply house in Vancouver a few weeks back, I now have a good selection of barley malts in stock. My good friend breadsong paid a visit to the store and picked up 4 different types, (crystal, chocolate, peat smoked and rauchmalz) which she generously shared with me. Having a go at the Borodinsky is finally on my short list, so your posts and others are currently being studied for an upcoming bake. 

It's one thing to make 2 or 3 great looking loaves of bread, but when you can achieve consistent high quality in the numbers you have with this bake, it shows a great deal of production management skill as well. Nice baking my friend!

All the best Andy,

Franko

 

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Franko,

My more recent baking, http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/27454/baking-13th-20th-february-2012 saw me making a lot of different breads in smaller quantities.   The oven still behaved equally well.

Two areas I now need to address:

1. More kit: bannetons and lidded bread pans

2. Sensible use of proving space.   This should be ok, as I need to find places with differing temperatures where I can store 9 loaves [ie. one full oven load].   The hearth is good for warmth, and we have a convector heater which can generate plenty heat too.   And we have some much cooler spots too.

I'd like to be baking 4 runs through the oven on the hearth if possible, then filling the dead oven with rye loaves in pans for that long slow bake.   The Tea Breads [Baras Briths] in the previous post baked absolutely wonderfully in the brick oven.   This should be possible from a 4 hour firing and settling time, during which I can have all the mixing, shaping and some of the proving complete.

I'm really looking forward to your post on Borodinsky when you get time.   Did you manage to source Red/Crystal Rye Malt, or have you settled for Barley?

All good wishes

Andy

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

you get such good utilization out of your oven.  That will lead to better time utilization and profits !  Do you have any crumb shots of your Borodinsky in the pullman pans?

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi dabrownman,


There is a good Borodinsky crumb shot here:

ttp://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24237/celebrating-rye-breads

The profit will allow me to invest in bannetons and bread pans of course!

Many thanks for your comments

Best wishes

Andy

dabrownman's picture
dabrownman

Now its no wonder why Phil is so high on your 100% rye breads and speaks so highly of your talent in making them.  You really have it down pat.  No wonder rye is becoming more of a crowd favorite.  Thanks for the link.  I will be giving this another shot if I can find a covered pullman pan to at least try to make it right.  Won't find any dark red malt flour either I'm guessing :-)

ananda's picture
ananda

Hello again,

You could try these links to look up potential sources of rye malt?

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/26946/%E2%80%9Crauchmalz%E2%80%9D-germany-and-gilchesters-northumberland-uk#comment-201635

http://beermaking.ca/beer3.html

Many thanks again for your kind words

Best wishes

Andy

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Andy,

The crystal malts that breadsong shared are all barley, but the malt that I've ordered is rye, just not red or crystal as far as I can tell from the scant details in the site's description. It was difficult to find rye malt of any kind for sale on N.A. sites, so I have to settle for what I can get.  As usual the shipping constitutes the majority of the overall cost, but it should last a good long while. I'll likely do a mix using the crystal barley 1st, to familiarize myself with the procedure and times, then another with the rye malt after it arrives.

Having a look at your Borodinsky formula and the one that Faith posted from her translation of the Auerman formula found on suave's blog, your overall hydration is significantly higher. Have you ever made one with the lower hydration, and if so, how do they compare? I like the idea of doing it as a straight hearth loaf, but appreciate the benefits of your tinned, higher hydration method as well. I'm wondering if there's a middle ground between the two that could result in hearth loaf with a higher hydration than the Auerman formula. 

Cheers,

Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Franko,

The large panned loaves can be baked very slowly with a lid.   This means they cook in their own steam, hence deep caramelisation accompanied with great moisture retention.

I've never really been tempted to do high rye in a banneton.   I'm moving more to 100% rye bread now, which is made in a pan.   I find an increasing number of customers now cut wheat out of their diet altogether, so an all-rye loaf has a small but very loyal following.   I do like doing the Pain de Siegle and the Caraway Rye in bannetons, where the rye sour is the leaven, but rye constitutes between 10 and 25% of total flour.   Maybe one day I'll get into mid range territory, but not at the moment.

Then there is the unpredictability of hydration in rye.   You've seen the photos of the Bacheldre Rye I use.   It's very thirsty, and the last few breads I've made, 100% Rye flour has needed 96% moisture to hydrate flour.   I get very nervous at this level, as it is very difficult to bake the loaf out.   However, a stiff paste is far worse in many ways, as the end result is often a "stuck" fermentation.....no place to be!

All good wishes

Andy

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Andy,

Yes, baking in the closed tin has those benefits you note that I'd like in the finished loaf, but I also prefer the more natural look of the hand shaped loaves over the tinned version. It's more what I imagine the bread to have looked like before production of it became standardized in Russia. I've have done a few high rye in bannetons, but generally it's given me more aggravation than success. The cleanup when it sticks to the mold isn't my idea of a good time...at all!  I do have an idea that might work though, but needs some testing. I'll let you know how it goes regardless of whether it's successful or not.

Best wishes,

Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Franko,

Have you seen Dan Lepard's book "The Handmade Loaf"?   Pages 32 - 34 are devoted to Russian peasant baking today, and there are some fine loaves produced in stove-top cooking pans!

I don't think a Banneton-type loaf is that significant in Russian bread heritage, although I'm happy to be corrected on this.

I'm intrigued what your ideas are and look forward to seeing your write-up on this.   I'm sure you'll make some great loaves, regardless.

All good wishes

Andy

Franko's picture
Franko

 One of Dan Lepards'  books was next on the list for adding to my collection,"The Handmade Loaf" it is then. Thanks Andy!

Just to be clear, a banneton molded loaf has never been a consideration for me regarding the make-up of the Borodinsky I have in the works. It will be either hand molded or tinned, the latter option being my fallback position.

I'm intriqued to see if my idea has any measure of success. Tune in for around noon your time [edit: better make that two-ish] and I should have something to show you...for better or worse.

Thanks Andy, all the best,

Franko

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Andy,

Well  only 10 hours later than when I said, sorry, but just took the loaf out a few minutes ago. The loaf itself is not nearly what I was hoping for, and not remotely close to any sort of  Borodinsky I've ever seen, but I think my experiment of baking it in a DO may have some merit. The internal temp was 109F/42.7C when I finally removed it from the oven, and the loaf feels spongy, but quite heavy and dense. It looks a little too brick-like for my liking, but it hard for me to say at this point what I'll find when I take a slice. The sponge was strong before final mixing, but the dough needed more hydration than the 76%-77%  it had. Now that I've done a test of the dough I'm reasonably confident that the hydration could go another 10%+/- and still be  hand mold-able to a shape that would hold. The formula used was Faith's translation of Auerman's formula, but with increased hydration, other than that the percentages were the same or very close to what she posted. The bake profile was:  load to a 500F/260C Dutch Oven, lower to 460F/237C for 40 minutes, then 400F/204C for 15-20 minutes, and finally 10 more minutes in a cooling oven directly on the stone. It will be at least 48-60 hours before I'll take a slice of the loaf, but in the meantime I'm enjoying the aroma of the rye, molasses, coriander and caraway.

It looks like I've found another project to tackle.

Best Wishes,

Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Franko,

The internal temperature seems very low to me.   It may be possible that the loaf is just too dense and so it hasn't baked out.   I hope that is not the case; all will be revealed when you slice into it, of course.

The use of a Dutch Oven seems like a good idea to me.

I know Faith and suave have discussed rye flours before, and I remember you posted photos of your Canadian rye flour to compare with the "sawdust" [as Nico described it], that I use here in the UK.   I don't think I'd get away with lower hydration using the Bacheldre flour.   Every time I've stiffened up the sour, the result is stuck fermentation.   Hence I'm content to keep everything wet and stick to using the tin.

That is a lovely looking black bread on the photo from suave isn't it?

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24911/gilchesters-miche-and-borodinsky-bread#comment-184125

Best wishes on your "new project"

Andy

ps I bought rye grain and rye flakes during my visit to the city yesterday!

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Andy, 

The temp I quoted of 109F/42C is wrong, I meant 209F/98C, but heck I was only off by 100F* :^) No, it took a while for the thermometer to top out, much longer than if the internal had only been 109F.

I decided to cut a slice off this morning since I didn't think the loaf was worth anything more than to use as altus anyway, and I was right. The crumb, for lack of a better word, is tight and dense even for 100% rye, not good at all. For some reason the sponge didn't take, and I did test it to make sure it was active before final mixing. I think it was a combination of too stiff a mix and perhaps the sponge being a little warmer than it should have been that were the culprits. As for flavour, it's OK, nothing terribly exciting, but hopefully that will improve in future mixes. Unfortunately it's a bread that I can only do on a day off as it's schedule is too lengthy to do on one of my working days.

No question at all, suave's loaf is a beauty. The dark crust reminds me of a loaf in Jan Hedh's 'Swedish Breads & Pastries', a Dark rustic Skane bread which has some similarities to the Borodinsky. It took a few tries to get a handle on the Altamura but my guess is the Borodinsky will be even more of a challenge to achieve results along the line of your's or suave's fine loaves.

Cheers Andy,

Franko

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Franko,

I have Jan Hedh's book "Artisan Bread", and his Skane bread is featured in this as "Olof Viktor's Dark Rye Bread".   On the next page is a Pumpernickel.   I'm back on that gig tomorrow...and this is a real one only using rye...wholegrain, cracked grain, dark flour, light flour and "altus".   Four kilos of the stuff.

Honestly, I suspect the only problem with your loaf is a shortage of water.   I've never used Russian rye flour, but it is probably worth careful reading of all the comments made here between Faith and suave and others including me here on this thread:

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/24237/celebrating-rye-breads#comment-179096

Good to know the internal temp was correct afterall, but your observations about it being "tight and dense" do suggest insufficient hydration along the way.

The Jan Hedh section on dark bread looks like a place I will be spending more time!

All good wishes

Andy

codruta's picture
codruta

Any, as you know from Varda latest post and comments, I plan to make this bread. I'm making rye-malt tomorrow, and I studied a bit your formula, but I'm not sure I'll find molasses here. I'll check today at every organic food store in town, but just in case I won't find it, can I substitute it with something else, or can I omit it? Thank you ... for everything.

codruta

ananda's picture
ananda

Hi Codruta,

Use black treacle if you have to, but it really is not the same as blackstrap molasses.

Best wishes

Andy

eliabel's picture
eliabel

Varda, almost an unbelievable perfect Borodinsky! And thanks for you kind words.

Olga