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David's miche with raisin yeast water

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teketeke's picture
teketeke

David's miche with raisin yeast water

Here are my experiments of David's miche that is absolutely delicious and became my most favorite hard bread. I, who was not a big fan of sour flavor in the bread look for sourer taste in this miche now. I think because of my raisin yeast water doesn't get so sour like acetic acid, it is more like malic acid when I retard it.

 David's miche here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21644/miche-hit

How I made these miche:

No 1. 4/19( Started at 8 AM) to 4/21:

  1. Step1 Mixed 26g KA AP/3g raisin yeast water +23g water → fermented for 10 hours at 76F.
  2. Step2 Mixed the step1/94g KA AP/94g water → Refrigerated(42.8F) as soon as I mixed them and fermented for 24 hours until doubled.
  3. Final dough: 586g KA bread flour/398g water/18g toasted wheat germ/15g salt

 

Method:

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes 
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane 
  3.  Bulk fermentation 10 hours ( S&F 2 times interval 45 minutes)
  4.  Shape→ Proof in a refrigerator( 42.8F) for 12 hours 
  5. Next morning: Proof at 72-74 F for 1 hours 45 minutes-
  6. Bake I used the 2 pans like Dutch oven method.   

baked 20 minutes at 450F with steam, took the 2 pans and transfer the bread in the rack on the baking stone to bake more 40 minutes at 420F.

 It was little bit sour ( fruity) in 12 hours , but I did taste sour ( fruity) in 24 hours. It was a shocking moment to taste this wonderful bread. After we ate all this bread,I wanted to make more of this bread.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Then I did!

No.2  4/22( Start at 8:15am)-4/24:

  1. Step1 : Mixed 22g raisin yeast water/ 22g KA AP--- That was a mistake. I was about to make 26g KA AP/ 26g raisin yeast water.--Fermented it for 6 hours at 76F until doubled. I should have waited until tripled.
  2. Step2 Mixed the step1/94g KA AP/94g water- refrigerated as soon as I mixed them and fermented for 88 hours (4/26  6:12 AM) until doubled. I had to wait for long hours...
  3. Final dough: 586g KA bread flour/398g water/18g toasted wheat germ/15g salt.

Method:

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane.
  3.  Bulk fermentation 11 hours ( S&F Once after 45 minutes)
  4. Shape
  5. Proof in a refrigerator for 12 hours ( I put the shaped dough in a back pack and then kept in the refrigerator (50F) after I stored the dough in the refrigerator (42.8F) for several hours)
  6. Bake 20 minutes at 446F with steam, took the 2 pans and transfer the bread in the rack on the baking stone to bake more 40 minutes at 400F.

The taste was sweeter. When I tasted it in 12 hours, I didn't taste any sour from the raisins. 24 hours later, I tasted fruity sourness slightly.  I rather sourer for this bread. I baked at lower temperature to get brown crust, but I found out that I liked darker crust for this miche.

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No.3  and No. 4

5/2 (Started at 7pm)-5/7: I made 2 miche: One (R)- Retarded , the other one (NR)--not retarded.

1. Step1 Mixed 26g KA AP/26g raisin yeast water x2 ---

                  (R) Fermented it in the refrigerator for 59 hours(  5/5   6 am) until doubled.

                   ( NR) Fermented it at room temperature ( 68-70F) for 12 hours until tripled.

2. Step2 mixed the step1/71g KA AP, 23g KA whole wheat/94g water x2

            (R) Fermented it in the refrigerator for 47 hours until doubled.

            (NR)Fermented it for 4 hours at room temperature (70F) until tripled

3. Final dough: 586g KA bread flour/398g water/18g toasted wheat germ/15g salt

 

No.3 (NR)

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane
  3.  Bulk fermentation 11.5 hours at 68F ( S&F 1 time after 45 minutes)
  4. Shape
  5. Proof for 1 hour at 68F 
  6. Continute to proof for 3 hours at 60F
  7.  Bake 12 minutes at 465F with steam, took the top pan and bake 8 more minutes at 465F, took the bottom pan and trasfered the bread on the camp stove toaster  and continute to bake more 40 minutes.

24 hours later, The taste was sour ( fruity) slightly. I also tasted more flavor from the whole wheat that I put in the 2nd levain.  The crumb was not as moist as the others that I retarded, however it was delicious.

 

No.4 (R)

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane
  3. Bulk fermentation 10 hours at 70F ( S&F 1 time after 45 minutes)
  4. Shape 
  5.  Proof for 1 hours at76F
  6. Retarded (42.8F) for 6 hours, decreased the temperature to (50F) and continue to retard for 7hours.
  7. Bake 12 minutes at 465F with steam, took the top pan and bake 8 more minutes at 465F, took the bottom pan and trasfered the bread on the camp stove toaster and continute to bake more 40 minutes. 

I didn't degas much before I shaped.   24 hours later, I tasted sour ( fruity) like the first one. but I tasted more flavor from the whole wheat that I put it in the 2nd levain.

 The top (NR) : The bottom (R)

I liked (R) more than (NR). Retarding over night gives the crumb moist very well. 

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No.5(5/12-5/14)

1. Step1 Mixed 26g KA AP/10g raisin yeast water +16g water for 12 hours.

2. Step2 mixed the step1/71g KA AP, 23g KA whole wheat/50g water+44g raisin yeast water.

    Fermented it at room temperature for 4 hours at 70F , decrease the temperature to 68F and fermented it more 6 hours .

   ( Yes, it became really sour ( acetic) !)

3. Final dough: 586g KA bread flour/ 190g raisin yeast water +208g water /18g toasted wheat germ/15g salt  I added 2 tbsp homemade rum syrup that I have kept alcoholic raisins which in my raisin yeast water with sugar.  I hoped that this yeasts which I used more raisin yeast water in the final dough and the rum syrup overcome the acetic bacteria...

 

Method:

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane
  3. Bulk fermentation 6 hours at 68F ( S&F 1 time after 45 minutes) until doubled
  4. Shape
  5. Proof for 6 hour at 68F
  6. Bake 12 minutes at 465F with steam, took the top pan and bake 8 more minutes at 465F, took the bottom pan and trasfered the bread on the camp stove toaster and continute to bake more 40 minutes.

It turned out pretty good. I only tasted fruity sourness ( sweet and sour) which was stronger than others above. but it was really good bread.

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No.6 ( 5/11-5/15)

1. Step1 Mixed 26g KA AP/10g raisin yeast water +16g water for 11 hours until 2.5 tims in bulk.

2. Step2 mixed the step1/71g KA AP, 23g KA whole wheat/25g water+ 42g raisin yeast water.

             Fermented it in the refrigerator for 12 hours until doubled.

3. Final dough: 586g KA bread flour/398g water/18g toasted wheat germ/15g salt .

 

Method:

  1. Autolyzed for 40 minutes
  2. Added salt and knead until passed a window pane
  3. Bulk fermentation 9 hours at 68F ( S&F 1 time after 45 minutes) until doubled
  4. Shape
  5. Proof for 1 hour at 72F.
  6. Retarded (42.8F) it for 11 hours.
  7. Bake 12 minutes at 465F with steam, took the top pan and bake 8 more minutes at 465F, took the bottom pan and trasfered the bread on the camp stove toaster and continute to bake more 40 minutes.

24 hours later, The taste was very cloese to the one that I baked in 5/14.   But I like this better because the crumb had more moist.  

I still continue to play with this bread. :)

Thank you for sharing your wonderful miche, David!!  Thank you so much!

I also thank you everbody to read such a long story.

Best wishes,

Akiko

Comments

RonRay's picture
RonRay

Akiko, those loaves really look great, and the crumb on all of them should make any artisan barker happy. ;-)

Of course, if I made that much bread, it would last me a month. LOL

Ron

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Ron,

LOL  Yes,  This miche is a big one although my family eat them all up within a couple days after I made except my daughter who is 5 year-old! T-T  I hope that she will like these kind of bread soon.

There are really good bread!

Best wishes,

Akiko

Daisy_A's picture
Daisy_A

Hi Akiko,

Thank you for sharing your amazing journey with miches! They look so delicious and must be so healthy for your family to eat :-).

Do you have a preferred version for texture and taste? I would like to explore this type of formula with both sourdough levain and raisin water and would be happy to be guided in my choice of starting points.

With best wishes, Daisy_A

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Thank you for your kind words, Daisy :)  I also think that those bread are pretty healthy and good!

All of these bread are good. The big differences of the taste are when I retarded or not retarded. I do like No.4 and No.6. I do like No.5 which is milder than No.4. and No.5.    I'd like to hear your result of your explore when you try :)

Happy baking,

Akiko

 

MadAboutB8's picture
MadAboutB8

Those crumbs look wonderful, Akiko. You sure do like this bread a lot, I can tell. It's one of my favorite too.

Thanks for sharing your experiments on the miche.

Sue

http://youcandoitathome.blogspot.com

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi Sue,

Your miche look so good!! http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/22383/sfbi-miche-one-tastiest-bread-i039ve-made-so-far

I am so glad to talk about this wonderful bread with you!

Best wishes,

Akiko

dmsnyder's picture
dmsnyder

I'm so pleased you and your family are enjoying this bread.

David
( in Bologna)

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Thank you for your kind word, David!

I also thank you to leave this comment from Bologna.  I hope that you have a great time there.

Sincerely,

Akiko

Janetcook's picture
Janetcook

Akiko,

I am so impressed with all of your loaves and wonder how on earth you have time to do all of this AND take care of your family!

You do such a thorough job keeping track of all of your variations and posting pictures it makes it easier to see and understand how to bake with YW.  Now people have more good examples of how to use YW in regular SD recipes and they can just follow your formulas instead of struggling on their own.  Some day you will have enough information to write a baking book of your own so that people  ( non TFL members ) in the United States can be introduced to YW breads.

Thanks for all you continue to contribute here and I LOVE your scoring pattern on your loaves - especially on #2 loaf with the light flour dusting.

Take Care :-)

Janet

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi Janet,

Thank you for your very kind words!  You made me blush.. :P   And, Your comment of " how on earth you have time to do all of this AND take care of your family!" made my husband chuckle. LOL  He has been calling me " BREAD HEAD" since I started to bake the same formula's baguette everyday for over 6 months.  I involve my children to bake bread, too . I also let my son to make breakfast for us everyday while I am kneading the dough LOL   So, It works out.

I am very pleased with my way of bread baking that I share with TFL members.  If I publish a baking bread, I may have a heart attack because of too much pressure.. LOL

Take care, too :)

Akiko

 

 

 

Syd's picture
Syd

That bread is just beautiful, Akiko!  The crumb is fantastic and I love the dark, leathery colour of the crust.  That is just how it should be to my mind.  This is one of my favourite loaves, too.  I think it has something to do with the toasted wheat germ.  It really adds a whole new dimension to it.  And I admire your thoroughness, Akiko.  You always research everything you bake so well and put your whole heart into it.  Congratulations! :)

Best wishes,

Syd

teketeke's picture
teketeke

  Hi Syd,

Thank you for your compliment, Syd!   You made me blush, too...     Even I read and get information for the topic, I can't confirm until I test it.  Even though, it may be not true because everyone may have different result. That is why there are so many methods to make sourdough too?  It is mysterious. 

 I think it has something to do with the toasted wheat germ. It really adds a whole new dimension to it.

 I agree with you!   I often use wheat germ on other baking since I found out that it is very good to use because of this miche!

I prefer darker crust, too.  When I made a darker one at first, I thought that was too dark.  and I made second one that was light brown color crust.  I felt that the darker one had more flavor and moist  for some reason..  I just felt that the darker crust ones were better especially when I had the crumb.

P.S Thank you for the tip of shaping a boule, again.  I haven't seen it yet, but I will check it in this afternoon. Thank you, Syd!

 Happy baking,

Akiko

Franko's picture
Franko

Hi Akiko,

Lovely breads all, but I'm quite taken with #6. It looks delicious with it's rich brown crust and open celled crumb. It's an amazingly long fermentation time before baking, but the results are amazing as well, and I would imagine the flavour is deep and complex. Sometime this summer I hope to make a fruit yeast of some kind, inspired by what you, Daisy, and Ronray have collaborated on over the last 6 months or so, and wanted to say thanks for all the great information you've passed on to us. Great baking Akiko!

Best wishes,

Franko

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi Franko,

Thank you for your very kind words, Franko.  I am happy to see you have read our yeast water posts :)  Your compliment means to me.  You are a professional baker and I enjoy reading your posts that are outstanding.    Before you try a fruit yeast, hopefully I can post more details of the method to make yeast water. :)

Best wishes,

Akiko

breadsong's picture
breadsong

Hello Akiko,
Your miches are all beautiful, and I can only imagine the flavor achieved with the long fermentation times.
David's miche is one of my absolute favorites and it's so nice to see your excellent results using YW.
Thank you for your excellent recordkeeping, which will be so helpful to those of us who wish to try your method!
:^) from breadsong

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Hi breadsong,

Thank you for your compliment, breadsong! I am happy to see you here.  For yeast water, it worth it to ferment the multi-build levain for a long time in the refrigerator. it bacomes surprisingly moist bread. For flavor, I think that is like between white and red wine.  When I ferment the 2nd levain ( with whole wheat) at room temperature, the flavor was more complex like red wine.  Fermenting it in refrigerator, the flavor was calm like white wine. 

Best wishes,

Akiko

jyslouey's picture
jyslouey

and you posts are like the Japanese books that I'm reading with pics and precise step-by-step instructions. 

I hope you don't mind my asking, I can understand you're using a 1:1 in step 1.  For step two, you added  94 /94 to yr step 1 levain.  May I pls ask how you have arrived at this figure?  Is this a ratio, or is this the amt  based on the weight of flour and water after doubling or tripling  in step 1? I'm also trying to experment with a loaf this weekend using  levain 2 but I was under the impression  that I should add the weight of water and  flour used in step 1 when I proceed to step 2.  Many thanks.  - Judy  

teketeke's picture
teketeke

 Thank you for your compliment, Judy

I am afraid to say that I can't say it without the amount of the final dough formula on your recipe that you are going to make.

I don't use 1:2:3 step sourdough bread for  my bread with raisin yeast water .  I just follow the original recipe then I just adjust it to raisin yeast water like David's above.  I don't know of the multi-levain build exactly unfortunatley. I just play with my dough.

I recommend you to keep your baking bread record that will help you in the future  if your loaf has a problem.

Best wishes,

Akiko