Hello David, Thank you for posting the SFBI Miche formula.
I look forward to trying this. Your miche is beautiful - I love the diamond scoring!
Regards, breadsong

This is the one I've been waiting for - thanks David! Love the look of that crumb!

Too bloody hot to bake here at the moment, but as soon as we get some respite, I'm going directly to this one without passing Go!

Cheers!
Ross

Hmmm, what a beauty David.

Absolutely perfect crumb for my taste, and nicely gelatinized to boot. No wonder it's a hit, just from appearances alone, but I can also tell there's a lot of flavour going on as well from the way the crust gradually colours into the actual crumb. That's good baking IMO, and a great loaf. Thanks for sharing the recipe and your notes.

Franko

Mmmm, when I return back home this week this loaf is on the agenda!

By the way, do you special order your flour directly from Central Milling? Since I have heard you mention Central Milling and this type 85 flour a few times, I think this morning when my rep arrives at the bakery I will ask what he has to offer when it comes to Central Milling and see what goodies I can get my hands on!

It is Snyder approved afterall!

Hey David!

Great miche! This has to be the formula to test the high extraction flour with that I found after turning this city upside down (Amsterdam).

Usually it's very difficult here to find out what sort of flour you're dealing with; they just don't put any info on the label other than "flour".... yeah, I knew THAT...

Every disadvantage has it's advantage though; after trying all sorts of flour, I found that the one on the lowest shelf in my supermarket around the corner yields the most reliable results at.... 69 cents per 2 kilograms :-)

But this one is a no brainer; 85% "bise-flour", and from what I read on the net and on this site, it must be the "strong stuff" I was looking for.

Can't wait to get started on this miche with the high extraction flour! I succesfully revived a rye sourdough starter after a long sleep in the fridge.

One question I hope you can help me with: I usually make stiff starters, and this formula asks for a liquid starter. How much of the stiff starter would I use in this formula?

Greetz from Amsterdam!

Freerk

P.S. Whilst managing my profile and bookmarks, I realized that about 50% of my "favorites" come straight from your pages and comments. I guess a big THANK YOU! is appropriate! And, just out of curiosity; your last name suggests a Dutch heritage, is that the case?

Perfect in every way David! The scoring shows a well trained hand. The luster of the crumb speaks flavor as Franko suggests above. Well done!

I've been searching for a local source for Central Milling products since I started looking at Tartine. Nicky says he will ship me 50# bags but the freight is $50 so I'm still looking.

Would you make a suggestion on how we can approximate the high extraction flour? I have seen combination's of WW and AP that seem to get in the ball park. Perhaps sifting the WW to remove the rough component? Getting the flour right has a lot to do with a successful miche.

Eric

Very nice loaf.  And thanks for posting this formula (finally!).  Now I can thaw and eat the last piece of your SFBI miche.

One question, though.  If the formula calls for bread flour plus a bit of germ, how similar is your version with 100% Type 85?  I'd think your version would have a lot more germ and bran.

I have had great success with Central Milling's flours.  I like the Organic Type 85, and the Organic Artisan Baker's Craft (the flour Acme uses for baguettes, as I understand it).

As to sources for Central Milling Flour out of the Bay Area, I have not heard of any.  I did hear that Nicky will now sell 5 pound bags of most things if you call ahead and pick up (I know that doesn't help much for people who are distant).

Glenn

Hi David,

I noticed that the % of water in the final dough of your miche formula is 68%.  Was the % of water also the same in the original recipe from SFBI since it had bread flour?  I am thinking that type 85 flour absorbs a bit more water than bread flour.

Carl

If Whole Foods Stores 365 Organic Flour is from Central Milling maybe Whole Foods sells a high extraction flour too or could order it. WF is about an hour from us in Ohio which is a lot closer than CA.

Has anyone used the 365 Organic that I think sells for $3.50/5lb.

Also, what about KAF's First Clear Flour, isn't that a high extraction and can it be used in this recipe?

Your loaf is gorgeous David!

weavershouse

Hi David,

That is one splendid looking miche. Many thanks for sharing this. Daisy_A

the whole thing looks perfect, David!  I think you've nailed this very traditional bread.  I'd be interested in the results of a really large loaf - I understand they can stay fresh for quite a long time.

Larry

Beautiful loaf, David!  This one was one of my favorites from SFBI's Specialty Bread weekend workshop. 

I was wondering about your thoughts on this bread compared to the other miches you've made.  Do you prefer any of the other miches over this one?

I wonder how Heartland Mill's Golden Buffalo would work out with your formula.

We have a whole foods not to far from here...I will have to check out their flours!

The crumb looks so delicious!  Thanks for sharing the nicely written formula!

Sylvia

Beautiful, David! Lovely miche!Do you think it may use some extra final fermentation time? The crumb could be more open i presume. I've seen Giovanni, a TFL member, bake miches to perfection, and i believe you aremore than capable of doing so. It may be the final tightening of the boule that squeezed the larger bubbles out?

Hi David,

there are aspects of this bread that your post justifiably mark out at the highest quality.

I agree with your assessment of the crumb.   The close-up says it all; a more open crumb is not the goal here for me.

The dark crust with cracks, must surely yield tremendous flavour.

Gorgeous bread from clearly supreme flour.

To me, the most difficult aspect of fermentation of these types of breads, especially the very large loaves, is the lower core of the loaf.   So long as that is well leavened and not tight or "doughy", then the fermentation is good.

Great bread

Andy

That is True, Andy! I think that this Miche is fermented all the way to the end, and the crumb structure, is that of a typical European style miche.

And yes, David, more hydration would be the key to a Giovanni-style Miche.

Hi David and Khalid,

The core at the base of the middle of the loaf is the most difficult part to reach in terms of oven spring.

You can see from my post of late that the dough was very well fermented, and the shaping was tight and smooth.

A wet dough will enable more spring, so I guess that is one reason why a lot of people have found success with this method.

However, I actually like some small amount of activity in the dough when I set it in the oven.   This will induce the right amount of spring required.   The dough should not be fermented to the limit of its life and beyond; over fermentation results in flavours in bread which I find unpleasant, and the keeping qualities are diabolical.

So, for the homebaker making miches, to me, the difficulties to overcome relate to using an oven which is lacking in power, cannot retain heat, and so will not manage to penetrate that difficult core and induce lift in a difficult to reach place.

If I'd baked the 2 leaven bread in my deck oven in College, with steam, the result would have been a more even crumb throughout the whole loaf.   By that, I mean big holes and random texture throughout, as seen in the photos.   As it was, the closer to the middle, the tighter the structure.   It was still pretty good, and a lovely loaf of bread, but a dough piece in excess of 1.5kg baked in a domestic oven does present certain challenges.

David, I'm sure you will have picked up on this from your time at SFBI: there really is no comparison between a domestic oven and the types used commercially.   No matter what measures are taken regarding use of masonry to store heat.   The difference in power is enormous!

I do hope that makes sense to you both, but I can clarify if you have further questions.   Khalid, if you want a reference point for my post, it's here: http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/21684/rye-and-wheat-breads-january-2011-not-changing

Best wishes

Andy

Thank you Andy.

David,   Can you comment about taste differences between the one you made here and at school?   It seems that you prefer this one but I'm wondering what are the major differences.   Thanks.  -Varda

David,   Can you comment about taste differences between the one you made here and at school?   It seems that you prefer this one but I'm wondering what are the major differences.   Thanks.  -Varda

This miche is AMAZING!  David, thank you SO MUCH for sharing this formula and your notes.

I just baked this bread today.  After 3 1/2 hours of waiting, I couldn't wait longer.  I did a 360 degree evaluation before I cut it open, and guess what I saw?  Crack marks all around the bread! When I sliced it, the lovely sound of crunchiness is loud and crisp.  You are right, the colour of the crust is very dark, and I was very worried when I took it out from the oven.  However, after one bite, I was in heaven, and I went on and ate a few more slices (more than I should have).

David, do you think I can obtain the same quality of the bread but the dark crust if I bake this bread using the dutch oven method?  Will I compromise some of the good qualities of this miche?

Michelle

Hi David,

Thanks for the tip re: burned bottom crust.  I have this problem every time I use the dutch oven for baking bread.  Will let you know the result!

Michelle

Instead of the High Extraction Flour? I guess this might be a dumb question..i have limited space so i have limited flours to bake with...could i do whole wheat with all purpose and yield a similar bread (i have the wheat germ)...it looks SOOO good...thanks!

David this miche looks amazing!

I would make it as soon as my new starter will be ready (sadly I had to throw away my last one because of mold).

Tell me, Is the dough with 96% bread flour and 73% hydration is a bit too slack? More like Ciabatta? I cant get my hands on High Extraction Flour here, so what flour combination you think will yield the best results?

Thanks, and again- this miche looks so delicious!

Jonathan.

David,

I made this miche and I'm very satisfied. I used "tipo 2" flour (0.95% ashes) that should be very similar to first clear flour, at least in theory. There's no visible bran in it (or at least not to my sight) but there are particles of germ. To say the truth I should have used "tipo 1" (0.80% ashes), but since I had this bag hidden since forever it was big time to use it.

I used my rye starter rather than the wheat one because I feel much more confortable with it.

The loaf came out like an old-timer, something that I  could never reproduce with other flours.

Thanks for the recipe!

It looks great!

David

Beautiful Miche, Nico!

Hi David,

I am so glad to try your Miche!  The taste of  bread is outstanding like I never forget the texture and taste. I used KA AP for levain, and KA bread flour for the final dough. I baked this early morning after I proofed it at room temperature for 1.5 hours after retarding for 12 hours in a refrigerator.  I started to make this Miche with 3g raisin yeast water +23g water / 26g KA AP.

I don't know why my Miche looks very shiny, and I burnt the bread. I forgot to reduce the oven temeprature from 470F to 450F. I cooked the dough with steam at 470F for 5 minutes by my mistake. After I took the steaming towel out of the oven, I reduced the temperature to 420F from 450F.

I sliced it 12 hours after I baked.  I really like this bread crumb, very moist and chewy but soft as you described.   I was little afraid to retard it overnight, the bread would be really sour. Fortunetely, My miche is not sour. I tasted a little bit of sour that is good for me.   I like to eat this bread without toasting.  When I toasted a slice of the bread, I tasted sourer.   Your miche is one of my favorite breads already.

Thank you for posting your wonderful Miche,

Akiko

I have a question, David.

Why do you proof at room temperature after retarding the dough in a refrigerator for overnight?  If it is fully proofed in a refrigerator (Example:A longer time in refrigerator :around 14 hours or so - Does it damage the dough structure and flavor?) Do you think that we don't need to proof the dough at room temperature? What is the purpose of proofing at room temperature after retarding?

I am sorry if you answered the same question already on your blog. I couldn't find it when I searched using the search box here.

P.S  Updating of the taste of my miche after 24 hours: It became difinitely sourer and I still tasted  great sweetness in the bread, too.  When I bit off the piece of my miche, I felt nicely cold moist in the crumb on my lips that was a amazing moment to see how moist the miche is.   I am making your miche now :) This time, I will retard it at 50F for several hours to get slightly sour bread that My family and I like.  Thank you so much.

Best wishes,

Akiko

Thank you for taking more time to explain to me as always.

I think what you wrote above is based on sourdough that is started with whole wheat or rye flour and water.   Fruit yeast water, and Flour yeast which is started with white flour and water are very different from sourdough in my opinion.  You can read Ron ( Ronray)'s yeast water processes and you can understand how he made non sour bread with his yeast water even he retarded it.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20693/culturing-growing-and-baking-range-wild-yeasts#comment-143857

You might be interested in this thread, too.

http://www.thefreshloaf.com/node/20460/banana-saga-%E9%95%B7%E7%AF%87%E6%95%85%E4%BA%8B#comment-167080

Very best wishes,

Akiko

I have been meaning to make this since you posted but was stymied by High Extraction flour.   Finally I just sifted Whole Foods Whole Wheat which I think you said was Central Milling.   I think you can see from crumb color that I didn't get quite to 85%.   Better sifting tools required.   But quite different than what this would have looked like (tasted like) without the sifting.